Gil Brandt Calls BB Best Drafter IN NFL

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

PatsPulpit just did a good analysis.

The BB-Sucks-at-Drafting crowd won't like it but the truth hurts.

The Patriots are better at drafting than you may think - Pats Pulpit

So weird how “that terrible terrible joke of an organization that Peyton carried”:

• Was statistically the best drafting team.
• Had a Hall of Fame GM.
• Had a Hall of Fame head coach.
• Had two Hall of Fame receivers and two Hall of Fame running backs.
• Had three players in the mix for DPOY.
• Had “the built in advantage” Vinatieri for much longer than the Patriots.
• Won a Super Bowl when Manning threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs that postseason.
• Handed him Super Bowl MVP despite him having easily the worst passer rating by a QB to win that award.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

No one hits on everything.

That's not true. Patsfans draftniks do. If you don't believe me, just ask them.

 

[DW Toys]

The last few years haven't been as productive, even discounting the injuries.

Here's the last 5 years by round...

1 23 Isaiah Wynn
1 29 Dominique Easley
1 31 Sony Michel
1 32 Malcom Brown
2 56 Duke Dawson
2 60 Cyrus Jones
2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo
2 64 Jordan Richards
3 78 Joe Thuney
3 83 Derek Rivers
3 85 Antonio Garcia
3 91 Jacoby Brissett
3 96 Vincent Valentine
3 97 Geneo Grissom
4 101 Trey Flowers
4 105 Bryan Stork
4 111 Tre' Jackson
4 112 Malcolm Mitchell
4 130 James White
4 131 Deatrich Wise
4 131 Shaq Mason
4 140 Cameron Flemming
5 143 Ja'Whaun Bentley
5 166 Joe Cardona
6 178 Christian Sam
6 178 Matthew Wells
6 179 Jon Halapio
6 198 Zach Moore
6 202 A.J. Derby
6 206 Jemea Thomas
6 208 Kamu Grugier-Hill
6 210 Braxton Berrios
6 211 Conor McDermott
6 214 Elandon Roberts
6 221 Ted Karras
7 219 Danny Etling
7 225 Devin Lucien
7 243 Keion Crossen
7 244 Jeremy Gallon
7 247 Darryl Roberts
7 250 Ryan Izzo
7 253 Xzavier ****son

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

As you say, all GM's make draft decisions that look foolish in retrospect. But how do you know if BB has been better or worse than average if you don't do some kind of objective analysis?

Every analysis I've ever seen has BB in the top quartile vs other GM's. Why should we believe your opinion instead?

Two things.

This is my 10th year grading prospects. I don't "rank" guys. Although there's nothing wrong with that at all. I came up with a scale of sorts and my grades/rankings are always pretty different than the consensus that's out there at the time. Fortunately I've been more right than wrong. And learned to live prospects like James Morgan, Mike White getting a 2nd round grade. Bc I've hit and been higher on guys like Jimmy, Dak, Wilson, Foles, Jacoby who were not on most top 5 list.

Point is you live with misses bc of the hits. And like you, me and many others have said so us some proof he's bad.

Again I think no matter the metric, formula, criteria etc Bill will come out top 5-10 pretty easy.

 

[DW Toys]

The last few years haven't been as productive, even discounting the injuries.

Here's the last 5 years by round...

1 23 Isaiah Wynn
1 29 Dominique Easley
1 31 Sony Michel
1 32 Malcom Brown
2 56 Duke Dawson
2 60 Cyrus Jones
2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo
2 64 Jordan Richards
3 78 Joe Thuney
3 83 Derek Rivers
3 85 Antonio Garcia
3 91 Jacoby Brissett
3 96 Vincent Valentine
3 97 Geneo Grissom
4 101 Trey Flowers
4 105 Bryan Stork
4 111 Tre' Jackson
4 112 Malcolm Mitchell
4 130 James White
4 131 Deatrich Wise
4 131 Shaq Mason
4 140 Cameron Flemming
5 143 Ja'Whaun Bentley
5 166 Joe Cardona
6 178 Christian Sam
6 178 Matthew Wells
6 179 Jon Halapio
6 198 Zach Moore
6 202 A.J. Derby
6 206 Jemea Thomas
6 208 Kamu Grugier-Hill
6 210 Braxton Berrios
6 211 Conor McDermott
6 214 Elandon Roberts
6 221 Ted Karras
7 219 Danny Etling
7 225 Devin Lucien
7 243 Keion Crossen
7 244 Jeremy Gallon
7 247 Darryl Roberts
7 250 Ryan Izzo
7 253 Xzavier ****son

4% success rate with 11 players that were scalable...... 5 good and 6 fair or incomplete.
Yep 4% is about right.
DW Toys

 

[1960Pats]

Two things.

This is my 10th year grading prospects. I don't "rank" guys. Although there's nothing wrong with that at all. I came up with a scale of sorts and my grades/rankings are always pretty different than the consensus that's out there at the time. Fortunately I've been more right than wrong. And learned to live prospects like James Morgan, Mike White getting a 2nd round grade. Bc I've hit and been higher on guys like Jimmy, Dak, Wilson, Foles, Jacoby who were not on most top 5 list.

Point is you live with misses bc of the hits. And like you, me and many others have said so us some proof he's bad.

Again I think no matter the metric, formula, criteria etc Bill will come out top 5-10 pretty easy.

I would imagine that BB's ability as a coach has to help his drafting. If the same player goes to a crappy coach he probably won't end up as solid as if he went to BB.

I spent almost 20 years drafting kids in youth baseball. That has to be much easier than drafting young adults who can develop almost overnight and/or are being paid millions.

One question that I have is how much of a factor is it to have a combine where players can practice the drills beforehand. That might paint a less accurate picture of a players true value. I used to see something similar in my youth baseball days when kids would come back from Florida or a baseball camp and be ahead of those that didn't.

 

[1960Pats]

Handed him Super Bowl MVP despite him having easily the worst passer rating by a QB to win that award.

Speaking of Manning and MVP's...

 

[patsfaninpa]

I find it laughable you guys don’t count udfa’s. A. Butler, JC Jackson(playing like a first), Jon Jones, David Andrews, Brandon King. They are Patriots because of our college scouting department. Last 5 doesn’t even include Malcolm Butler

 

[archstanton543]

I find it laughable you guys don’t count udfa’s. A. Butler, JC Jackson(playing like a first), Jon Jones, David Andrews, Brandon King. They are Patriots because of our college scouting department. Last 5 doesn’t even include Malcolm Butler

They're undrafted. Therefore they don't get included as part of a draft class. It's right there in the name of their designation.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I find it laughable you guys don’t count udfa’s. A. Butler, JC Jackson(playing like a first), Jon Jones, David Andrews, Brandon King. They are Patriots because of our college scouting department. Last 5 doesn’t even include Malcolm Butler

This. For this reason is why BB is the GOAT of team building and not necessarily drafting. BB the GM knows his coach's system and BB the coach is provided talent that form-fits his system.

Other than what you mentioned, here are all the rookie FAs that have made the NEP. Not all are stars but had a decent role with the team and played with other teams during their career.

Lonnie Paxton
Matt Chatam
Stephen Neal
Tom Ashworth
Randall Gay
Eric Alexander
Mike Wright
Pierre Woods
Gary Guyton
Law Firm
Wendy
Hoyer
Kyle Arrington
Kyle Love
Dane Fletcher
Sergio Brown
Bolden
Thompkins
Ryan Allen
Malcolm Butler
Gunner
Meyers

Not bad,

 

[scout]

They're undrafted. Therefore they don't get included as part of a draft class. It's right there in the name of their designation.[/QUOTE

Technically, you'r correct. A player not drafted is typically are signed immediately after the draft. I think you might be arguing semantics. BB has been a great drafter and able to sign undrafted players after the draft or BB has been a great drafter including undrafted players.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Sometimes you draft a guy because another team will sign him. And, you don’t draft a guy because you’ve heard he won’t be drafted and is willing to sign with you.

 

[Kasmir]

They're undrafted. Therefore they don't get included as part of a draft class. It's right there in the name of their designation.

But they're evaluated as part of a draft class. The mechanics of selection are different, but the evaluation of free agents is done the same way as everyone in their draft class. They're integrated into the processing of their draft class and are evaluated the same way by the same people. They're considered (and rejected) at every pick. Only the selection and signing mechanism is different. The draft selection mechanism has simply been truncated to speed up the processing of its tail.

I've read contrived arguments about how they should somehow be treated separately, but it's just that the BB-bashers know that adding in free agent signings makes BB look even better as a drafter.

The whole game here is to make BB look bad to further the Brady mythos: if BB sucks at building a team, then the dynastic success must all be Brady's doing. A simple bias.

My bias is simple and constructive: as a Patriots fan I hope that BB has been responsible for the majority of the team's success because we still have him and likely would have had him and his organizational legacy long after Brady is retired.

Virus permitting, we'll soon see whose wishes come true.

 

[1960Pats]

I find it laughable you guys don’t count udfa’s. A. Butler, JC Jackson(playing like a first), Jon Jones, David Andrews, Brandon King. They are Patriots because of our college scouting department. Last 5 doesn’t even include Malcolm Butler

Because the draft is such a crap shoot, I'm a big fan of udfa's and fa's, though the fa's can be more expensive. I also like late round picks because it gives the team first shot at those players, rather than letting them get scooped up as udfa's by another team.

 

[1960Pats]

But they're evaluated as part of a draft class. The mechanics of selection are different, but the evaluation of free agents is done the same way as everyone in their draft class. They're integrated into the processing of their draft class and are evaluated the same way by the same people. They're considered (and rejected) at every pick. Only the selection and signing mechanism is different. The draft selection mechanism has simply been truncated to speed up the processing of its tail.

I've read contrived arguments about how they should somehow be treated separately, but it's just that the BB-bashers know that adding in free agent signings makes BB look even better as a drafter.

The whole game here is to make BB look bad to further the Brady mythos: if BB sucks at building a team, then the dynastic success must all be Brady's doing. A simple bias.

My bias is simple and constructive: as a Patriots fan I hope that BB has been responsible for the majority of the team's success because we still have him and likely would have had him and his organizational legacy long after Brady is retired.

Virus permitting, we'll soon see whose wishes come true.

IMO the BB-bashers and the TB-bashers are few and far between. I think most Pats fans love them both, but when push comes to shove we're Pats fans first.