How the Patriots got where they are: College draft edition

[Triumph]

What exactly did Wino do during the post-Boogermen fraud of a schedule to deserve an A?

And giving Bailey an A is a joke...or did you not watch the Tennessee game?

Bailey put 36 punts inside the 20. Titans Kern had a great season.

2019 NFL Punting Statistics | The Football Database

 

[203Pat]

Ok. And someone else might talk about an outstanding playoff performance or potential future performance. Or pull another player out of the list and look at a couple of numbers associated with him. Point is without anything systematic it’s just people bantering about different players, again which is fine, it’s sort of what we do here.

I get what you're saying that it is all subjective. I actually had posters telling me before the start of the season that Duke Dawson and Cyrus Jones weren't busts. That being said we aren't looking at Monet vs Warhol here. There is some subjectivity from person to person on how they judge picks and what each person qualifies as a bust or a success but at some point you have to look at it in black and white. A good pick is a good pick and a bad pick is a bad pick.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This thread is reactionary. The pats won the SB last year, went 12-4 this year and lost against a bad matchup in Tennessee.

The offensive woes occurred when Andrews went out for the season, Wyn got hurt, and our #2 Wr couldn't kick his drug habit. The remaining cap got sucked up to AB who didn't disclose pending legal issues which ruined any chance of trading for a good vet because there was no cap room.

Trading Michael Bennett, who would have been really helpful against Tennessee, also hurt.

Before the regular season started this was a Superbowl contending team. The circumstances above is why the pats are not playing next Sunday.

Lack of any reasonable tight end was poor roster management.

Some injuries (Andrews, Develin, Wynn) can be explained by bad luck. Brady is the big unknown, in terms of how his injury trickled down to effect everyone.

Gordon’s suspension was certainly possible if not likely, Edelman’s age and usage were concerning and injuries not surprising, and Brown’s overall psyche was a risky deal.

Sanu was an atrocious trade. I don’t care if he was “banged up.” He was the most inefficient veteran receiver they’ve ever had and was even worse by the eye test.

Some of this is hindsight, and some of it is due criticism. Having a rock bottom tight end is easily the most obvious mistake and the disaster there was inevitable.

 

[Kasmir]

Bailey put 36 punts inside the 20. Titans Kern had a great season.

2019 NFL Punting Statistics | The Football Database

Patriots' punting game overall was #2 in DVOA. That's the whole unit of course, not just Bailey, but he held up his end. They improved from 10th @+4.5 in 2018 to 2nd @+10.6 in 2019.

 

[203Pat]

Lack of any reasonable tight end was poor roster management.

Some injuries (Andrews, Develin, Wynn) can be explained by bad luck. Brady is the big unknown, in terms of how his injury trickled down to effect everyone.

Gordon’s suspension was certainly possible if not likely, Edelman’s age and usage were concerning and injuries not surprising, and Brown’s overall psyche was a risky deal.

Sanu was an atrocious trade. I don’t care if he was “banged up.” He was the most inefficient veteran receiver they’ve ever had and was even worse by the eye test.

Some of this is hindsight, and some of it is due criticism. Having a rock bottom tight end is easily the most obvious mistake and the disaster there was inevitable.

I agree. People can make what they want of the draft picks and all that but going into the season with that TE group was inexcusable. It's not like we had Dwayne Allen out there who can at least block, we had Lacosse who cant block or offer really anything in the passing game along with 12 games of 113 year old Ben Watson, and Izzo who probably belongs on a practice squad. I think that might be the worst position group we have ever gone into a season with edging out the 2006 receiver group and the 2009 defensive back group.

 

[Triumph]

What exactly did Wino do during the post-Boogermen fraud of a schedule to deserve an A?

And giving Bailey an A is a joke...or did you not watch the Tennessee game?

Rookie wall. Wino is part of the answer going forward and not the problem. He needs to put on muscle and weight.

1 sack
7 solo
4 assists
1 TFL

His defensive snaps decreased

Balt 9 snaps
Dallas 10
Buffalo 11
Conci 16

Tenn 2

but his special teams snaps remained high to the end

 

[FCB02062]

Patriots' punting game overall was #2 in DVOA. That's the whole unit of course, not just Bailey, but he held up his end. They improved from 10th @+4.5 in 2018 to 2nd @+10.6 in 2019.

And what did it get them? A first round loss at home vs a 9-7 team....

 

[captain stone]

Patriots' punting game overall was #2 in DVOA. That's the whole unit of course, not just Bailey, but he held up his end. They improved from 10th @+4.5 in 2018 to 2nd @+10.6 in 2019.

And what did it get them? A first round loss at home vs a 9-7 team...

...during which the Punter sucked.

 

[Joey007]

Queue the people coming in and saying it’s because they draft near, or at, the bottom every year. Those same people will then turn around and say that a team with zero shot shouldn’t tank for a higher pick.

Don’t worry, he’s gone now Kontra. I know, it’s force of habit.

 

[203Pat]

...during which the Punter sucked.

Bailey faded towards the end of the year. It's also pretty sad people are defending a draft class because of a punter.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I agree. People can make what they want of the draft picks and all that but going into the season with that TE group was inexcusable. It's not like we had Dwayne Allen out there who can at least block, we had Lacosse who cant block or offer really anything in the passing game along with 12 games of 113 year old Ben Watson, and Izzo who probably belongs on a practice squad. I think that might be the worst position group we have ever gone into a season with edging out the 2006 receiver group and the 2009 defensive back group.

Of the three TEs, none will be in the NFL in two years, and that would be true of Watson even if he stopped aging. Still totally unclear why they’d use LaCosse in goal line situations instead of designating another tackle as a tight end. He’s a terrible blocker...I’m honestly not sure if he’s a better blocker than Gordon was.

 

[203Pat]

Of the three TEs, none will be in the NFL in two years, and that would be true of Watson even if he stopped aging. Still totally unclear why they’d use LaCosse in goal line situations instead of designating another tackle as a tight end. He’s a terrible blocker...I’m honestly not sure if he’s a better blocker than Gordon was.

They hedged their bets on Lacosse being a diamond in the rough and he failed miserably. I am hoping for a complete overhaul of the position with a TE relatively early in the draft, a higher end FA agent signing, and maybe a late round development type. That position is vital to the offense and they need a guy who can run those seam routes and be at least a somewhat competent blocker. We saw in 2018 that we don't need an all world TE since the offense was still solid with Gronk at 60% but we need someone who is at least an NFL level starter.

 

[Patstopia]

If they keep drafting like they have been, they will never see another SB after Brady leaves

People have been saying this since 2005, but I guess if you keep saying it, even after 15 years, it will eventually come true. Then you can say "I told you so" and not be laughed at.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

One thing to consider is that the 2018 Patriots were really starting to show signs of decline. I almost feel like that postseason was their “last run” kind of like the 2012 Ravens and 2015 Broncos. A core group of perennial winners/contenders who knew they were on borrowed time in terms of a championship window. Just look at ages/condition of their core players beyond Brady in 2018. Edelman, McCourty, Chung, Gronkowski, Gostkowski, Slater. Those guys were all in the twilight of their career or right on the verge of hitting the wall.

Which makes the 2018 run still maybe the most unexpected, feel-good stories of the dynasty. To get another Super Bowl appearance in 2019 would have been awesome, but the end result isn’t really that shocking. I think they were really dominant during an extremely weak first half schedule and the other worldly play of Gilmore.

I’m excited to see how Bill rebuilds the Patriots 3.0.

 

[primetime]

Tight end is a tough position because it's extremely bare in the college ranks as well. Only a handful of schools even use tight ends anymore and many of them aren't very good, so teams just gamble on system guys from Iowa, Alabama, and Miami.

 

[Kasmir]

And what did it get them? A first round loss at home vs a 9-7 team....

Special Team performance got Joe Judge a HC job. At least I'm pretty sure it wasn't his coaching of the WR's that got him to the Giants.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Tight end is a tough position because it's extremely bare in the college ranks as well. Only a handful of schools even use tight ends anymore and many of them aren't very good, so teams just gamble on system guys from Iowa, Alabama, and Miami.

Interesting. Now that you point it out, I realize many of the big highly rated TEs do tend to come from those schools...but they’ve tended to not be as good as the hype.

 

[Deus Irae]

But other teams draft bad players too!! Obviously every team is going to miss on picks. I don’t know why it always has to turn into a league wide comparison instead of looking at things in black and white. The last 4 drafts have yielded almost no quality starters. Plain and simple.

All the “hindsight is 20/20” stuff is obvious. Yes of course you don’t know who is going to be a bust and who will be a stud but that being said a RB in the first round is always going to be stupid as far as I’m concerned. There were also a lot of people who didn’t like the Harry pick at the time of the draft with the other guys who were still on the board. The same way that a lot of people didn’t like us taking another corner in the second round or understand why we took another running back in the third. It’s all well and good to complain about people using hindsight to evaluate the draft but at the same time a lot of people haven’t agreed with some of our high picks right off the bat.

As a general rule (yes, there are plenty of exceptions), if someone is wielding the "hindsight is 20/20" argument in sports, they've got a really crappy argument.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread is reactionary. The pats won the SB last year, went 12-4 this year and lost against a bad matchup in Tennessee.

The offensive woes occurred when Andrews went out for the season, Wyn got hurt, and our #2 Wr couldn't kick his drug habit. The remaining cap got sucked up to AB who didn't disclose pending legal issues which ruined any chance of trading for a good vet because there was no cap room.

Trading Michael Bennett, who would have been really helpful against Tennessee, also hurt.

Before the regular season started this was a Superbowl contending team. The circumstances above is why the pats are not playing next Sunday.

That's one of the most ridiculous posts in the history of the internet.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This last class was crucial in helping keeping Brady around. They were in dire need of WR and TE help but only came away with one WR in the draft.

People on here slept on that player who wears #15 going on IR thinking it wasn’t a big deal yet it’s well known this is the most complicated offense to learn. When he finally got his a** on the field, he looked lost every game. The last pass Brady threw to him against TEN summed up his rookie season with Brady smirking and shaking his head.

If the Pats want Brady to return, look for the first domino to fall ala Kawhi to the Clippers with a major trade for a WR or sign AJ Green/Amari Cooper. Brady will not sign and leave it up to them first.