Jeff Howe: Pats in market for a WR and TE

[RobertWeathers]

It certainly seems to be a place primed for an upgrade, but there are a lot of ways to flay a feline. So long as blocking improves, they don't need more receiving production from TEs this year.

Understood but I like to have every position as a threat.

Right now, TE ain't it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I just want better talent at TE...catching or blocking. Dwayne Allen please get healthy.

I think Allen's 2018 season has grown considerably better since the start of the 2019 season.

 

[Zuma]

I think Allen's 2018 season has grown considerably better since the start of the 2019 season.

I’ve never said a single disparaging word about Allen. Certainly his talents could be useful in 2019 as well.

 

[Deus Irae]

I’ve never said a single disparaging word about Allen. Certainly his talents could be useful in 2019 as well.

I must have written that badly, so my apologies. I was generalizing about perception. What I meant was that Allen's play seems to have gotten better in people's memories as they've seen the struggles of the Patriots 2019 TE crew.

So, again, my apologies for making such a confusing post.

 

[Oswlek]

Understood but I like to have every position as a threat.

Right now, TE ain't it.

No argument here, I was keying off of the word "need", which I don't think it rises to the level of. You can be sure NE will snag one this off-season, though. I expect another double dip, like 2006 and 2010.

 

[Zuma]

I must have written that badly, so my apologies. I was generalizing about perception. What I meant was that Allen's play seems to have gotten better in people's memories as they've seen the struggles of the Patriots 2019 TE crew.

So, again, my apologies for making such a confusing post.

“It’s not you...it’s me” ... I didn’t have my after work adult beverage yet.

 

[Uptown]

Trade Bennett to Oakland for TE Waller










Joke

 

[fnordcircle]

I’ve never said a single disparaging word about Allen. Certainly his talents could be useful in 2019 as well.

I don't do the thing a lot of people do around here where they seem to actively root against a player on our roster.

But I'm sure we have all disparaged Allen's pass catching. I mean he's fantastic as a blocker and I am fine with him as TE2 and ecstatic if he is TE3, but let's not pretend he's aces when it's time for him to make a catch or three.

 

[Zuma]

I don't do the thing a lot of people do around here where they seem to actively root against a player on our roster.

But I'm sure we have all disparaged Allen's pass catching. I mean he's fantastic as a blocker and I am fine with him as TE2 and ecstatic if he is TE3, but let's not pretend he's aces when it's time for him to make a catch or three.

Blocking is his bread and butter

 

[captain stone]

Bill should've demanded Austin Hooper in exchange for the 2nd-rounder...because unless the conditions of Gordon and/or Harry are more grave than we believe, then adding somebody like Slo-Mo Sanu - who plays basically the Exact Same Position as the other two - doesn't provide nearly the impact that adding a pro-bowl-calibre TE such as Hooper would've provided, especially when the cost to acquire Sanu - and the damage to our salary cap that he brings with him - is taken into account.
This looks more like a panic-stricken overpay than a shrewd business deal.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

I must have written that badly, so my apologies. I was generalizing about perception. What I meant was that Allen's play seems to have gotten better in people's memories as they've seen the struggles of the Patriots 2019 TE crew.

So, again, my apologies for making such a confusing post.

I don't know if you guys have a similar old saying ...

In the land that everybody is blind, who has one eye is king.

Allen is just a JAG. Izzo and Lacosse are PS material.

 

[NashuaPats]

Bill should've demanded Austin Hooper in exchange for the 2nd-rounder...because unless the conditions of Gordon and/or Harry are more grave than we believe, then adding somebody like Slo-Mo Sanu - who plays basically the Exact Same Position as the other two - doesn't provide nearly the impact that adding a pro-bowl-calibre TE such as Hooper would've provided, especially when the cost to acquire Sanu - and the damage to our salary cap that he brings with him - is taken into account.
This looks more like a panic-stricken overpay than a shrewd business deal.

They inquired about Howard, so I bet they asked the Falcons about Hooper. The Falcons probably weren't interested in trading him.

 

[SBLIII]

Bill should've demanded Austin Hooper in exchange for the 2nd-rounder...because unless the conditions of Gordon and/or Harry are more grave than we believe, then adding somebody like Slo-Mo Sanu - who plays basically the Exact Same Position as the other two - doesn't provide nearly the impact that adding a pro-bowl-calibre TE such as Hooper would've provided, especially when the cost to acquire Sanu - and the damage to our salary cap that he brings with him - is taken into account.
This looks more like a panic-stricken overpay than a shrewd business deal.

No competent TE was available.

 

[Chevrolet]

Bill should've demanded Austin Hooper in exchange for the 2nd-rounder...because unless the conditions of Gordon and/or Harry are more grave than we believe, then adding somebody like Slo-Mo Sanu - who plays basically the Exact Same Position as the other two - doesn't provide nearly the impact that adding a pro-bowl-calibre TE such as Hooper would've provided, especially when the cost to acquire Sanu - and the damage to our salary cap that he brings with him - is taken into account.
This looks more like a panic-stricken overpay than a shrewd business deal.

Harry was not setting the world on fire in preseason. He has not played a single regular season game in the NFL. Can not expect anything from him this year. Gordon is hobbled by a knee injury and carried potential drug abuse issues.
I think it was a shrewd move. In my view this is likely Brady's last year...they are all in for winning this year!!! can not risk everything on Harry and or Gordon. Sanu has been durable and dependable and gives them an inside option which Brady desperately needs given current TE situation.

No one really wants to trade top tier TE's, the supply <<<<demand. I am sure TE was their preference but if no one wants to trade what can you do?

 

[DW Toys]

Just crunched some numbahs.

2018
Players: Gronk, Allen
Per Game: 3 catches, 44yds, .2TDs

2019
Players: LaCosse, Izzo, Watson, Tomlinson
Per Game: 2 catches, 27yds, .14TDs

This is pathetic. The current status is unacceptable. We need a TE- badly.

You are correct Cousin.
There are some definite maybes out there I have broken into categories:

HIGH PICK COST:
Austin Hooper ATL. It would cost at least a first rounder. Should the Falcons consider it? Last year on his contract. Pats would have to have an agreement going forward for a first round pick.

Evan Engram NYG It would cost at least a first rounder. Signed until 2020 at a cheap $2.9mm and $3.43mm. Giants are out of it. We gave a 1st for Cooks. He does not have that production but he fits the Aaron Hernandez role. Not much blocking. The Giants are done and need a makeover an added first can give them

OJ Howard TB It would cost at least a first rounder. BA needs to move an asset he is not using. Maybe...just Maybe Bennett and a pick. I would like us to keep Bennett but.............Brate would be the consolation prize but $7mm salary?

TRADE:
Tyler Higbee LAR. TRADE This is a trade scenario. Bennett with Donald might pull up the Rams. TE is Goff's last read. His Salary is too high but it goes down the next three years.

Adam Shaheen CHI. TRADE He languishes in Chicago. Bears could use Bennett. Book has not been written on this kid YET. Decent blocker. Great size. Was a great receiver in college but the Bears use Burton as their receiving TE

LOW PICK COST:
Tyler Eifert CINN. Lower pick should do it. If he's healthy he would be out #1 TE.

Jeff Heuerman DEN Lower pick. Cheap alternative but maybe better than what we have. Can block. More catches than Izzo and LaCosse combined.

Mike Gesicki MIA Lower pick. Can catch but a mediocre or worse blocker. Great size. Will the Fins trade? He has potential and has suffered bad QB play.

Jesse James DET? Matty P took a fifth for his starting Saftey Maybe a sxith, seventh? Dude killed us in Pittsburgh.

BEST BETS?:
Eifert
Shaheen

DW Toys

 

[DaBruinz]

Bill should've demanded Austin Hooper in exchange for the 2nd-rounder...because unless the conditions of Gordon and/or Harry are more grave than we believe, then adding somebody like Slo-Mo Sanu - who plays basically the Exact Same Position as the other two - doesn't provide nearly the impact that adding a pro-bowl-calibre TE such as Hooper would've provided, especially when the cost to acquire Sanu - and the damage to our salary cap that he brings with him - is taken into account.
This looks more like a panic-stricken overpay than a shrewd business deal.

Gordon and Harry play OUTSIDE.. Sanu plays almost strickly from the slot (77%). Your evaluation of players is sorely lacking.

As for the "damage" to the cap, what is that? Do you KNOW for certain? Rumor has it that the remainder of his salary was converted to SB prior to the trade so his cap hit is 547K... IF that is the case, then Atlanta did us a HUGE favor.

 

[primetime]

It's likely the Falcons consider Hooper part of their long-term plans. He'll be only 25 years old in a couple weeks and has gotten better each season he's played. He's on pace for over 100 catches and 6+ TDs this season. Even if he leaves in free agency, he's going to get paid to the tune of a 3rd round compensatory pick. If anything, it was the year that Hooper's been having that gave the Falcons confidence that they'd still have three very good receivers and allowed them to cut bait with Sanu, which they didn't want to do this offseason.

A team that trades for him is going to have to best a 3rd rounder (likely a 1st) for a guy they'll either have to pay or else lose in free agency. In the latter case, they're basically trading 8+ games of a tight end (who's only still developing as a blocker and doesn't know the offense) for a 3rd round compensatory pick. Makes no sense.

There really aren't any tight ends better than Watson available in the trade market. Howard was the only potential target but the Bucs clearly don't want to give up on him yet. Everyone else potentially available (Eifert, etc.) would be worse than Watson and no better than Lacosse as a second tight end.

 

[primetime]

Gordon and Harry play OUTSIDE.. Sanu plays almost strickly from the slot (77%). Your evaluation of players is sorely lacking.

As for the "damage" to the cap, what is that? Do you KNOW for certain? Rumor has it that the remainder of his salary was converted to SB prior to the trade so his cap hit is 547K... IF that is the case, then Atlanta did us a HUGE favor.

Harry played in the slot quite a bit in college and many pundits considered him a likely candidate for a "big slot" role in the pros, not dissimilar from Sanu, Keenan Allen, Larry Fitzgerald, or Juju. He'll certainly play some outside, but so does Edelman - the Patriots don't really fix their WRs into roles (one reason the position is so hard to learn in New England, a very big contrast from, say, the exact opposite case in Arizona where the Air Raid has extremely rigid roles for each receiver). And that's almost certainly one reason why Harry was a player they targeted. In any case, Sanu and Harry both appear to have inside-outside versatility, as do Dorsett, Meyers, and Edelman. That's a plus; not sure why captain stone thinks otherwise.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bill should've demanded Austin Hooper in exchange for the 2nd-rounder...because unless the conditions of Gordon and/or Harry are more grave than we believe, then adding somebody like Slo-Mo Sanu - who plays basically the Exact Same Position as the other two - doesn't provide nearly the impact that adding a pro-bowl-calibre TE such as Hooper would've provided, especially when the cost to acquire Sanu - and the damage to our salary cap that he brings with him - is taken into account.
This looks more like a panic-stricken overpay than a shrewd business deal.

You seem to be have the wrong idea about what Sanu is as a player:

Sanu primarily has played in the slot during his seven-year NFL career. He’s big for the position at 6-foot-2, 210 pounds, but he’s also been productive and efficient. He’s played 84.4 percent of his snaps this season from the slot. He’s caught 81.3 percent of his targets from that inside role.

What Reported Mohamed Sanu Trade Means For Patriots Wide Receiver Corps

So:

• Harry's a rookie who's done nothing in the NFL, so the notion that relying on him is a good idea makes no sense
• Sanu functions as a large slot WR, not an outside big, so the idea that he's fungible with Gordon doesn't hold water
• Hooper would only have been a half-season rental, because he's going to look to get paid in FA
• Sanu is a fairly low cost starter-level WR
• The ideal expected cost would have been a 4th, the normal expected cost would have been a 3rd, and the bidding war cost ended up as a 2nd, which is not that big an overpay for a team almost certain to draft in the bottom 4 of round 2
• Sanu's a guy the Patriots have been interesting in acquiring for some time, not just a desperate last minute gamble kind of player

You've got this one pretty much completely wrong, Captain.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

You are correct Cousin.
There are some definite maybes out there I have broken into categories:

HIGH PICK COST:
Austin Hooper ATL. It would cost at least a first rounder. Should the Falcons consider it? Last year on his contract. Pats would have to have an agreement going forward for a first round pick.

Evan Engram NYG It would cost at least a first rounder. Signed until 2020 at a cheap $2.9mm and $3.43mm. Giants are out of it. We gave a 1st for Cooks. He does not have that production but he fits the Aaron Hernandez role. Not much blocking. The Giants are done and need a makeover an added first can give them

OJ Howard TB It would cost at least a first rounder. BA needs to move an asset he is not using. Maybe...just Maybe Bennett and a pick. I would like us to keep Bennett but.............Brate would be the consolation prize but $7mm salary?

TRADE:
Tyler Higbee LAR. TRADE This is a trade scenario. Bennett with Donald might pull up the Rams. TE is Goff's last read. His Salary is too high but it goes down the next three years.

Adam Shaheen CHI. TRADE He languishes in Chicago. Bears could use Bennett. Book has not been written on this kid YET. Decent blocker. Great size. Was a great receiver in college but the Bears use Burton as their receiving TE

LOW PICK COST:
Tyler Eifert CINN. Lower pick should do it. If he's healthy he would be out #1 TE.

Jeff Heuerman DEN Lower pick. Cheap alternative but maybe better than what we have. Can block. More catches than Izzo and LaCosse combined.

Mike Gesicki MIA Lower pick. Can catch but a mediocre or worse blocker. Great size. Will the Fins trade? He has potential and has suffered bad QB play.

Jesse James DET? Matty P took a fifth for his starting Saftey Maybe a sxith, seventh? Dude killed us in Pittsburgh.

BEST BETS?:
Eifert
Shaheen

DW Toys

OJ Howard has done NOTHING to warrant a first.

Jesse James is really expensive for what he brings.

If you give a #1 for Hooper they have to give something back. Maybe a 3rd. ATL has no leverage. He will be a FA next year.