Pats @ Bills all-22 rewatch thread

[Kontradiction]

I think that Myers screwed up. He quits on the play where he was supposed to take Hyde out of the picture. By quitting on the play early, he allows Hyde to be free to focus on Brady and the ball and go after it.

Myers has quit on pass plays and Brady before during preseason. I think its over for Myers and he will either get demoted to PS or cut this week.

He either quit, ran the wrong route, or both. When Brady begins his throwing motion (pic 2), Meyers engages his man and beats the press. Then he quits on the route, allowing Hyde the ability to basically spy Brady. It would be weird if, given that down and distance, they had Meyers run an out when Edelman was going to be in the same vicinity in the back of the end zone. But if that WAS the play call and that WAS the correct option route, then him quitting on the play did not make the throw any easier and left Hyde right there to snag it. That said, given the personnel the Bills were throwing at us, I would have much rather seen a handoff there. That’s a light grouping. Line up and try to smash it down their throats for 6.

 

[Kontradiction]

Can a real n***a snag me some of the clips of the deeper breaking routes that fell incomplete? The throws to Dorsett might be a good place to start. I think Brady is harboring the same injury he had after the Tits game last season and I’d like to get a look at his mechanics and how much that ball is floating.

 

[luuked]

Good. This is a lot more of an honest effort than just “bLaRg BrAdY!!!” In the spirit of this being the re-watch/copy and paste thread, let me try to help you. What stands out to you between pics two and three that you provided? What absolutely jumps off the page from a route concept/down and distance/situational standpoint?

I understand your point but you are slightly moving the goalposts. You were adamant the entire time that Meyers didn't run his route correctly and the pass was intended for him if he had made his read and cut inside. But Meyers had absolutely nothing to do with where the ball went.

Brady never even looked at him. After Gordon was taken away by Newhouse getting beat he jumped straight to Edelman and kept staring him down. You see it in the GIF as well as in the still images pretty blatantly. Just look where Brady's head goes right as he rolls to the right and then check how Hyde is staring him down.

It was a bad throw (head high through end zone) and stupid decision.

 

[luuked]

Can a real n***a snag me some of the clips of the deeper breaking routes that fell incomplete? The throws to Dorsett might be a good place to start. I think Brady is harboring the same injury he had after the Tits game last season and I’d like to get a look at his mechanics and how much that ball is floating.

From what I have seen so far you will have to wait for the A22 for anything useful there. The tv copy angles were awful for the most part.

 

[patfanken]

Thanks. So Meyers rode the pine the entire game after the INT and I didn’t just miss him. That sheds some more light on that play. Very much looking forward to the tape review on that one.

In general, and this isn’t a hawt taek, but with Edelman injured, they need to give it to Sony more often and take the pressure off of Brady. The Bills are no joke and are basically handicapped by their QB play, so I understand that this wasn’t much of an option yesterday. Not with the way the OL was getting whipped up front. But going forward, we need to see more of that.

Sounds like you are blaming Meyers for the pick but it was ALL on Brady. First he prematurely came off of the fade to Gordon, which looks like it was opening up just when Brady left the pocket. Then he completely stared down Edelman who was breaking open in the back corner of the endzone. Unfortunately because he was so focused on Edelman he brought in the S who picked the ball. Also it looked like Meyers was more open than Jules on the play and a much easier throw for Brady. So it doesn't shed much light on anything.

BTW- you have to LOVE BB, who ran up to Fitzpatrick after the game and asked him how he got there and Fitspatrick reportedly said, "he stared me down". Never wanting to miss any info, BB went to the source. What other HC would do stuff like that?

 

[PP2]

Sounds like you are blaming Meyers for the pick but it was ALL on Brady. First he prematurely came off of the fade to Gordon, which looks like it was opening up just when Brady left the pocket. Then he completely stared down Edelman who was breaking open in the back corner of the endzone. Unfortunately because he was so focused on Edelman he brought in the S who picked the ball. Also it looked like Meyers was more open than Jules on the play and a much easier throw for Brady. So it doesn't shed much light on anything.

BTW- you have to LOVE BB, who ran up to Fitzpatrick after the game and asked him how he got there and Fitspatrick reportedly said, "he stared me down". Never wanting to miss any info, BB went to the source. What other HC would do stuff like that?

Absolutely agree on BB.. never leaves a stone unturned. I think you meant Micah.

But disagree on Meyers. If Meyers was actively engaging Micah, Micah would not even have had the wherewithal to even look at Brady.

 

[luuked]

I think that Myers screwed up. He quits on the play where he was supposed to take Hyde out of the picture. By quitting on the play early, he allows Hyde to be free to focus on Brady and the ball and go after it.

That doesn't change the fact that Brady is staring down Edelman for more than a second and then throws the ball head high towards him. This is what puts Hyde in position to even make an attempt at the ball.

This is the way I read the progressions on this concept just based on the TV copy GIF:

You have Gordon on the fade to the left, then next White/Izzo (maybe) in the middle and Edelman at the end. If executed with the right timing, going from Gordon to White to Edelman he would have had Jules at the end there without the wait. But since Brady skipped the entire middle of field portion due to pressure from the left he was too early on Edelman, the timing was screwed up and had to wait a beat.

This gave Hyde enough to time to diagnose and then jump the route. Given the pressure he should have just thrown the ball away.

 

[PP2]

 

[PP2]

 

[luuked]

But disagree on Meyers. If Meyers was actively engaging Micah, Micah would not even have had the wherewithal to even look at Brady.

That is a good point and I agree with it. But that doesn't change that what Brady did wasn't fundamentally sound to me. If you get flushed out of your timing because of pressure, you don't wait and stare someone down until they get open. That is just inviting trouble.

Take the L and move on.

 

[PP2]

That is a good point and I agree with it. But that doesn't change that what Brady did wasn't fundamentally sound to me. If you get flushed out of your timing because of pressure you don't wait for someone to get open. That is just inviting trouble.

Take the L and move on.

Yes, not letting Brady off the hook here, but the only thing he's guilty of is trying too hard to make it work.

Meyers, on the other hand- no faster way into BB's house than to do what he did. Wouldn't be surprised if he's the one cut to make place for Watson.

 

[Kontradiction]

I understand your point but you are slightly moving the goalposts. You were adamant the entire time that Meyers didn't run his route correctly and the pass was intended for him if he had made his read and cut inside. But Meyers had absolutely nothing to do with where the ball went.

Brady never even looked at him. After Gordon was taken away by Newhouse getting beat he jumped straight to Edelman and kept staring him down. You see it in the GIF as well as in the still images pretty blatantly. Just look where Brady's head goes right as he rolls to the right and then check how Hyde is staring him down.

It was a bad throw (head high through end zone) and stupid decision.

Not really. Whether the ball was supposed to go to Edelman or Meyers, the same argument applies. He’s still throwing the ball more to a spot when he breaks the pocket and Meyers either quitting on his route or not being on the same page makes it possible for Hyde to even be in the zip code. The second pic should spell that out. Hyde basically turned into a spy at that point. You’re also talking about a quarterback who, within the last 19 years, has thrown single digit red zone INTs. There’s a reason for that just like there are other factors at play when it DOES happen.

 

[luuked]

The few little wrinkles (this TD but also the blocked punt) the coaching staff had designed for some holes they clearly saw in Buffalo tape worked to perfection.

Once again grinding the little details out was the difference in a game.

On a sidenote it is pretty funny to see how result oriented the assessment of most people on the board is. Because the blocked punt formation was a pretty big risk in terms of an Bills audible into a pass to one of the gunners and fourth down conversion.

I don't even want to imagine how people would have called BB "getting too cute" again. But since it worked it is genius. Once again not grasping what probabilities mean and how if you keep doing what you think will give you the best odds to win it will work out over the long term.

 

[Deus Irae]

That is a good point and I agree with it. But that doesn't change that what Brady did wasn't fundamentally sound to me. If you get flushed out of your timing because of pressure you don't wait for someone to get open. That is just inviting trouble.

Take the L and move on.

What are you talking about? You don't shut down a play just because you get flushed.

 

[Kontradiction]

Sounds like you are blaming Meyers for the pick but it was ALL on Brady. First he prematurely came off of the fade to Gordon, which looks like it was opening up just when Brady left the pocket. Then he completely stared down Edelman who was breaking open in the back corner of the endzone. Unfortunately because he was so focused on Edelman he brought in the S who picked the ball. Also it looked like Meyers was more open than Jules on the play and a much easier throw for Brady. So it doesn't shed much light on anything.

BTW- you have to LOVE BB, who ran up to Fitzpatrick after the game and asked him how he got there and Fitspatrick reportedly said, "he stared me down". Never wanting to miss any info, BB went to the source. What other HC would do stuff like that?

Meyers definitely has a lot of blame in that one. You played football at a high level. Higher than the vast majority of us, I’d bet. You should be able to grasp route concepts. What are the chances he ran the correct route in that down and distance and that situation, with Edelman coming across the back of the end zone? Slim to none. Then, to make matters worse, he dogged it. All that does is make whatever throw Brady is trying to make that much harder.

 

[patfanken]

@luuked
@PP2
@KontradictioN
@BaconGrundleCandy

Did you think on the Brady INT, he was expecting Jakobi Meyers to break in towards the pass? I’ve been wondering about this and no one has been able to answer it any other thread. I’m wondering who you think was more responsible for that INT. The initial “take” was Brady is on the run and uncomfortable and panicked. I saw that Meyers was near the sideline. More miscommunication between those two really bums me out. Does anyone have a gif of that play and have an educated guess on what happened?

Brady in his presser mentioned he was throwing to Edelman who he thought was breaking open in the back corner. He didn't see Fitzpatrick who had followed his eyes into the play. So it was never about Jacobi

 

[Kontradiction]

What are you talking about? You don't shut down a play just because you get flushed.

Yep. And Brady has turned MANY of those into scores.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yep. And Brady has turned MANY of those into scores.

What's noticeable in that play is that, even if we blame Meyers (as you're doing), we still have plenty of blame left for Brady, who should have put more loft on that ball anyway, and probably should have thrown to the other side, but seems to have gotten spooked by the rush. So we're talking about a blame pie play, not an either/or play. Really, it's sort of the story of that game, in one play, that we have offensive failures on multiple levels.

 

[masterbouncer]

What's noticeable in that play is that, even if we blame Meyers (as you're doing), we still have plenty of blame left for Brady, who should have put more loft on that ball anyway, and probably should have thrown to the other side, but seems to have gotten spooked by the rush. So we're talking about a blame pie play, not an either/or play. Really, it's sort of the story of that game, in one play, that we have offensive failures on multiple levels.

Hyde made also a great read and play there, gotta respect that too

people here seem to blame Meyers for Brady forcing it to Edelman

 

[Kontradiction]

What's noticeable in that play is that, even if we blame Meyers (as you're doing), we still have plenty of blame left for Brady, who should have put more loft on that ball anyway, and probably should have thrown to the other side, but seems to have gotten spooked by the rush. So we're talking about a blame pie play, not an either/or play. Really, it's sort of the story of that game, in one play, that we have offensive failures on multiple levels.

I don’t think they should have tried to throw the ball in the first place. The Bills had some light personnel on the field. That’s screaming for dive. Unfortunately, given the way the OL played yesterday, that wouldn’t have been a given either.