Mike Pennel released

[Deus Irae]

Any contradictory stories on his release?

 

[DaBruinz]

Sorry, but the threads shouldn't have been merged and the original title changed..

 

[DaBruinz]

Pennel ‘s release is further proof that what the Pats are planning to primarily run in their 7 DL and LB defense is not going to be your father’s 2-gap 3-4. If it was, they’d need to keep more than Shelton to man the nose.

That’s not Shelton’s forte either as he showed last season. He loses his balance too easily and is turned sideways when moving laterally. He’s best used coming forward like in the Super Bowl.

If the DLineman are penetrating gaps rather than trying to control then, they might be fine just keeping Guy, Shelton, Butler and Cowart.

So, their running the 3-4 2 Gap for the first 3 games of pre-season was just for show? They're magically going to something else.. Got it..

 

[ralmat55]

How would cutting a dL prove that they are going to abandon the nickel base? Or did I misunderstand you?

You misunderstood. I said their “7 DL & LB defense” distinguishing it from their predominant 5 DB alignments. Whether it’s played with 4 guys with a hand on the ground or 3, it’s pretty hard to play gap control defense without a proper nose tackle.

 

[patfanken]

Agreed. We need a 3rd biggie.

It would seem that we need flexibility on the DL, flexibility to be able to run lost of sets as part of the various game plans.

I see the lack of a 2nd NT as an issue. As you said, perhaps Parry is making team. Also, perhaps Belichick sees potential NT backups out there to be signed or traded for.

Couldn't it just be the case that Shelton, Parry and Thurman simply beat Pennell out?

Clearly something happened between the first couple of weeks at camp and the first couple of practice games that soured the coaching staff on Pennell. I was at some of those early camp sessions and reported Pennell's early successes. Not that I surprised anyone with those observations since he was perhaps our most notable FA signing.

So here's what I'm SPECULATING happened. First and foremost, Shelton became the guy we THOUGHT he was when we signed him last season. He lost weight, added quickness and FINALLY got it, as far as using the techniques required to play the position the way Bill wanted. Second, it could have been that Bill saw Pennell having many of the same issues he saw with Shelton and decided that he simply didn't want to go through that again, especially given Shelton's improvement. And lastly, the emergence of Bryan Cowart.

After seemingly under performing in 2 college stints, Cowart is living up to the expectations that made him so sought after HS. While Meyers, Winovich and Harry have gotten most of the hype among the rookies, Cowart might be a guy who could be the most important rookie acquisition that we made because of the position he plays.

In today's game INSIDE pressure is the most sought after and RAREST skill that every team is looking for. WR's are really a dime a dozen these days, and even at DE, there seems to be a lot of 250 lb fast guys coming off the edge. But having a 3oolb guy who can move 320 lb guys off the LOS is a rare commodity. Cowart certainly has FLASHED that rare presence. It is, however still a question whether he can do it consistently.

So with Shelton starting to fulfill his promise, Cowart flashing, and the coach's thought that the drop off from Pennell to Parry being minimal; there was no room at the inn for Mike Pennell. On to the NEXT cut that will engender a thread.

 

[Simpelton]

Most everyone getting cut is either a fa you signed or a player you drafted.
I don’t think any coach in the league makes roster decisions based on how it makes the original transaction look. They don’t care about stuff like that.

You're really making an effort to misundertand what I said. I don't appreciate that very much

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

While this might just be a product of Pennel simply not playing well, it might also point to Belichicks vision of the modern 3-4 not needing a classic space-eating NT. In the old days, he always had a Ted Washington-type and Pennel seemed to fit this description.

Now that Bill is getting more hands on with the Defense, it will be interesting to see how this year’s 3-4 differs from those in years past.

 

[Ring 6]

You're really making an effort to misundertand what I said. I don't appreciate that very much

I understand I just don’t agree.
You think that Belichick is unique that he doesn’t worry about people saying he made a bad signing when he cuts a player. I think all coaches are like that.
I further think that Pennel would be a poor example any way because the contract indicted he wasnt looked at as a lock.

 

[patman52]

Yes but my view is based upon how Belichick has used ever player he has ever had in that size bracket. So I’m trusting that.

Regardless Bennett has nothing to do with that DT position in nickel base in early downs which is the weakness we were discussing.

They moved Flowers over inside plenty last year,

We will give up 200 rushing yards a game if we do that.

Do what? Move Bennet over 20% of the time a game allows a team to rush for 200 yards?

A 3-3-5 where the DEs are pure edge players rather than DE/DT tweeners is equivalent to a 1-5 defense. Do you really want to run that as a "base"?

Well against what team, some teams we will be a 4-3-4, some teams a 3-4-4, some teams , some teams a 4-2-5, some teams a 3-3-5 the base defense will change every week. Officially we are a 4-3-4 according to the official depth chart published by the pats.

But in a 3-3-5 I see a line up of guy-shelton-Cowart

 

[patchick]

Isn’t every cut “admitting a roster move was a mistake”?

I wouldn't say so. If Adam Butler ends up cut, what mistake would that indicate?

He obviously belongs in camp since he's been a solid contributor for the past two seasons, so it wasn't a signing mistake. His presence would have cost zero cap dollars, so it's not a financial mistake. The cut would simply mean they drafted somebody even better.

 

[Ring 6]

They moved Flowers over inside plenty last year,

Only in obvious passing situations.

Do what? Move Bennet over 20% of the time a game allows a team to rush for 200 yards?

Not what I said.

Well against what team, some teams we will be a 4-3-4, some teams a 3-4-4, some teams , some teams a 4-2-5, some teams a 3-3-5 the base defense will change every week. Officially we are a 4-3-4 according to the official depth chart published by the pats.

But in a 3-3-5 I see a line up of guy-shelton-Cowart

We play 5 or more DBs about 90% of the time.

 

[Ring 6]

I wouldn't say so. If Adam Butler ends up cut, what mistake would that indicate?

He obviously belongs in camp since he's been a solid contributor for the past two seasons, so it wasn't a signing mistake. His presence would have cost zero cap dollars, so it's not a financial mistake. The cut would simply mean they drafted somebody even better.

I stand corrected. Most cuts.

Are you saying you think coaches make roster decisions based upon whether someone will criticize them for signing the guy they cut?

 

[patchick]

I stand corrected. Most cuts.

Are you saying you think coaches make roster decisions based upon whether someone will criticize them for signing the guy they cut?

Did you mean that question for someone else? I can't imagine what it my post would lead to that conclusion.

 

[Ring 6]

Did you mean that question for someone else? I can't imagine what it my post would lead to that conclusion.

It was the point I was responding to with the statement you objected to

 

[RobertWeathers]

Based upon what? When have we ever played a 275 lb player at DT except in obvious passing downs?
Do you really think the best way to use Bennett is to have him eating double teams and being run at?

But we will see. I only hope you will admit when you are wrong, such as when you argued strenuously with me that Lacosse was going to play WR which we hopefully can agree on now.

He did it well in Philly but will not do it 60 snaps a game here

 

[reflexblue]

Couldn't it just be the case that Shelton, Parry and Thurman simply beat Pennell out?

Clearly something happened between the first couple of weeks at camp and the first couple of practice games that soured the coaching staff on Pennell. I was at some of those early camp sessions and reported Pennell's early successes. Not that I surprised anyone with those observations since he was perhaps our most notable FA signing.

So here's what I'm SPECULATING happened. First and foremost, Shelton became the guy we THOUGHT he was when we signed him last season. He lost weight, added quickness and FINALLY got it, as far as using the techniques required to play the position the way Bill wanted. Second, it could have been that Bill saw Pennell having many of the same issues he saw with Shelton and decided that he simply didn't want to go through that again, especially given Shelton's improvement. And lastly, the emergence of Bryan Cowart.

After seemingly under performing in 2 college stints, Cowart is living up to the expectations that made him so sought after HS. While Meyers, Winovich and Harry have gotten most of the hype among the rookies, Cowart might be a guy who could be the most important rookie acquisition that we made because of the position he plays.

In today's game INSIDE pressure is the most sought after and RAREST skill that every team is looking for. WR's are really a dime a dozen these days, and even at DE, there seems to be a lot of 250 lb fast guys coming off the edge. But having a 3oolb guy who can move 320 lb guys off the LOS is a rare commodity. Cowart certainly has FLASHED that rare presence. It is, however still a question whether he can do it consistently.

So with Shelton starting to fulfill his promise, Cowart flashing, and the coach's thought that the drop off from Pennell to Parry being minimal; there was no room at the inn on this team. On to the NEXT cut that will engender a thread.

I read about a month ago that Shelton came in about 15-20 lbs lighter, which is what BB wanted him to do. Shelton says hes a lot quicker than last year. So it looks like Shelton did what BB asked of him, got better on the field and was rewarded.

 

[Ring 6]

He did it well in Philly but will not do it 60 snaps a game here

He won’t do it 6 snaps a game here. We don’t run phillys defense.
And he didn’t do it 60 snaps a game her either

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Some day I will open a thread where AndyJohnson isnt taking up half the space in an argument with someone. That day will be a good day.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He won’t do it 6 snaps a game here. We don’t run phillys defense.
And he didn’t do it 60 snaps a game her either

He did it Thursday night. We will see.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Mike Pennel will be infamous on this board. Most of us, myself included, overrated the guy.