Mike Pennel released

[Family]

I think this was as simple as BB decided he didn't want Pennel on his team.

We've seen it with M. Butler, Jamie Collins (makeup sex is the best kind), and others over the past few years. When Bill is done with ya, he's done for at least now.

I think Bill is at the point in his life where he only wants to coach players he wants to coach, and something about Pennel said no.

 

[Brady6]

Yes but my view is based upon how Belichick has used ever player he has ever had in that size bracket. So I’m trusting that.

Regardless Bennett has nothing to do with that DT position in nickel base in early downs which is the weakness we were discussing.

Bennett only played inside the other night, every snap he was inside the tackle.

 

[catent]

I think this was as simple as BB decided he didn't want Pennel on his team.

We've seen it with M. Butler, Jamie Collins (makeup sex is the best kind), and others over the past few years. When Bill is done with ya, he's done for at least now.

I think Bill is at the point in his life where he only wants to coach players he wants to coach, and something about Pennel said no.

Totally agree with this.

Pennel was on a favorable contract and has unique physical traits.

He isn't here because effort, ability to receive coaching, attitude/mentality, etc; it's not due to a lack of talent or ability.

I think Cowart, Shelton, and Guy is sufficient run-stopping wise for the time being. Might see Parry at some point if we play a run-heavy team, and/or if one of the aforementioned guys gets nicked up.

 

[ralmat55]

Pennel ‘s release is further proof that what the Pats are planning to primarily run in their 7 DL and LB defense is not going to be your father’s 2-gap 3-4. If it was, they’d need to keep more than Shelton to man the nose.

That’s not Shelton’s forte either as he showed last season. He loses his balance too easily and is turned sideways when moving laterally. He’s best used coming forward like in the Super Bowl.

If the DLineman are penetrating gaps rather than trying to control then, they might be fine just keeping Guy, Shelton, Butler and Cowart.

 

[Ring 6]

​

Certainly, that is the way that the defense was built from Ted Washington and Vince Wilfork to Alan Branch. But is it so sure that that is the intention going forward?

I think it's notable that Shelton has said that Belichick wanted him to slim down over the off-season and he's done just that. If so, it may be that the line between (1) and (2) won't be so clear any longer.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/21/danny-shelton-impressed-bill-belichick-by-slimming-down-to-325/​

I don’t know how it can be if we are going to play a nickel base. (I don’t know how we could revert back to a 4 dB base)
Even if (1) becomes more like (2) we need 3 of them. Who is the 3rd? Maybe I’ve been sleeping in parry.

 

[Ring 6]

Pennel ‘s release is further proof that what the Pats are planning to primarily run in their 7 DL and LB defense is not going to be your father’s 2-gap 3-4. If it was, they’d need to keep more than Shelton to man the nose.

That’s not Shelton’s forte either as he showed last season. He loses his balance too easily and is turned sideways when moving laterally. He’s best used coming forward like in the Super Bowl.

If the DLineman are penetrating gaps whether than trying to control then, they might be fine just keeping Guy, Shelton, Butler and Cowart.

How would cutting a dL prove that they are going to abandon the nickel base? Or did I misunderstand you?

 

[Ring 6]

Totally agree with this.

Pennel was on a favorable contract and has unique physical traits.

He isn't here because effort, ability to receive coaching, attitude/mentality, etc; it's not due to a lack of talent or ability.

I think Cowart, Shelton, and Guy is sufficient run-stopping wise for the time being. Might see Parry at some point if we play a run-heavy team, and/or if one of the aforementioned guys gets nicked up.

We will get destroyed against the run if that’s the case.

 

[jah]

Guy still isn’t a stud but he is a solid hard working player.

I think it depends on definitions. He's the kind of player who you rarely take off the field and rarely wish you had a better player in his position.

 

[jah]

What is a passing down anymore? NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Passing First Down Percentage on TeamRankings.com. Now I don't think he will play DT in a 2nd and short. But if you are playing one of the 16 teams thap pass a lot more than they run on first down, why not?

I see them in a 3-3-5 as a nickel base anyway sith only one true DT and that is Sheldon and Parry, when they go 4-2-5 nickel alignment DL is when I expect Bennett moving inside from his DE spot.

A 3-3-5 where the DEs are pure edge players rather than DE/DT tweeners is equivalent to a 1-5 defense. Do you really want to run that as a "base"?

 

[IllegalContact]

Bennett is whatever you need him to be, besides a NT.

He will play all along the line but he’s not a DT just like gronk was not a WR when he lines up wide

 

[catent]

How would cutting a dL prove that they are going to abandon the nickel base? Or did I misunderstand you?

How did you manage to glean that from his post?

There is one mention of a specific formation by name in that post and it's "3-4". In fact, Kenneth doubles-down on the nickel when he mentions "7 DL and LB defense".

His point is that Pennel becomes more expendable if the team sees themself utilizing a lot of nickel, with only 7 combined DLs/LBs on the field at the same time.

 

[Froob]

He was one of our notable free agent additions but seems as if Mike Pennel has fallen out of favor, he played 5 snaps yesterday all in the second half and is seeing 3rd string reps in practice.

What are people’s thoughts on him making the roster?

You deserve a winner for this one good sir. All the people that laughed at this can take their crow lol.

 

[Ring 6]

I think it depends on definitions. He's the kind of player who you rarely take off the field and rarely wish you had a better player in his position.

Not sure we will agree on this.
He played just under 50% of the snaps and this was while the other 2 guys he shared time with were in and out of the doghouse.
I often wish we had a better player at his position and my preference would be that he DT3 in the base and gets more of his time in sub packages.

 

[Ring 6]

proof that what the Pats are planning to primarily run in their 7 DL and LB defense

feel free to decipher this for me. As I said I may have misunderstood

How did you manage to glean that from his post?

There is one mention of a specific formation by name in that post and it's "3-4". In fact, Kenneth doubles-down on the nickel when he mentions "7 DL and LB defense".

7 dL and lb is not nickel.

His point is that Pennel becomes more expendable if the team sees themself utilizing a lot of nickel, with only 7 combined DLs/LBs on the field at the same time.

Nickel has 6 dL/lb
We’ve run nickel base for years and used 5 or more dbs about 90% of the time last year.

The need for run stuffing DTs INCREASES when you put more dbs on the field.

 

[catent]

We will get destroyed against the run if that’s the case.

We had a virtually identical situation at DL last season, with Shelton and Guy being the only primary run-stoppers. Seemed to turn out fine over the course of the season.

Your premise seems to hinge on the following:

a.) Pennel would have performed well here (preseason and camp indicated otherwise)
b.) that the current personnel is not adequate in terms of stopping the run

I don't think either of the above is necessarily true.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I don’t know how it can be if we are going to play a nickel base. (I don’t know how we could revert back to a 4 dB base)
Even if (1) becomes more like (2) we need 3 of them. Who is the 3rd? Maybe I’ve been sleeping in parry.

I find the whole thing mysterious. What happened between the beginning of last season when (IIRC) the Jags were running for 5 or 6 yards between the tackles on first down, and the Super Bowl? I know that Gurley was injured, but still.

 

[catent]

feel free to decipher this for me. As I said I may have misunderstood

7 dL and lb is not nickel.


Nickel has 6 dL/lb
We’ve run nickel base for years and used 5 or more dbs about 90% of the time last year.

The need for run stuffing DTs INCREASES when you put more dbs on the field.

You're right, I misunderstood, that's my fault.

Perhaps he's referring to 5 DL, with someone like Wise, Bennett, etc. kicking inside?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Give credit where credit’s due. Good call @Brady6

 

[jah]

Not sure we will agree on this.
He played just under 50% of the snaps and this was while the other 2 guys he shared time with were in and out of the doghouse.
I often wish we had a better player at his position and my preference would be that he DT3 in the base and gets more of his time in sub packages.

Looks like you're right about his snaps. I don't know where I saw that he was playing most of the time. Maybe one or two single games.

 

[jah]

Maybe we should start referring to packages with 7 DL+LB players as the "penny" (unless I'm missing a coin between 2 and 4 cents inclusively) instead of "base" to avoid so many miscommunications.