DRAFT DAY DISCUSSION NFL Draft: Day 2

[50-yard-line]

Gordon went in he supplemental draft and his pro day prior to that had him listed as running a 4.52 in front of whichever NFL scouts came out to watch. I would guess he ran that without going through any of the sprinter training the players go through before the annual combine.

But that's the thing, isn't it? The .2, .o5 time difference in a 40 is virtually meaningless, as training with the right guy might make you that much better in a 40 (first step, etc), but means nothing when you put on the pads and have to go by someone who's slapping at you.

Hair-splitting, to me. The Pats already have a guy who ran a 4.29 and 4.27 at his pro-day, has good hands and a high catch rate, by the way.

 

[patfanken]

Trade our first second-rounder to Arizona for Josh Rosen. A Passover present.

6’4” Californian who throws a beautiful spiral and has big hands. What’s not to like?

Then with our next pick...well, i’ve already done it:
2019 Annual PatsFans Draft Contest

I don't think it will take a 2nd now. For the Cardinals, Rosen is a DESCENDING asset, and with every QB picked today will have less and less value.

Miami might be willing to offer a higher 3rd than the Pats plus maybe a 2020 mid round pick. And they'd be smart to do it. If Miami is out, the Pats might get it done with one of the 3rd round comp picks and a 2020 mid round pick, with the Pats getting say a 5th back.

Rosen is TRULY an excellent value due to the situation he's in. He is a FAR better prospect than any QB in this draft other than Murray (and he's got something to prove). He won't be with the Cardinals by the end of this draft or I'll (along with the rest of the country) be shocked.

 

[State]

The little guys (corners) are to fly off teams’ picks tonight.

 

[State]

Rosen’s hands measure 9 7/8”. Most of the QBs are in the 9 range.

Garoppolo was like 9 1/4”.

That’s supposed to be important in colder climes like ours when the snow is falling. EDIT: Make Rosen’s hand measurements accurate.

 

[Love The Drake]

By the end of today I expect One of Lock,Rosen,Grier to be a Pat.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

No, that's why I didn't break anything when I heard it. . Tillery was SOOOO close. They only had to go up to 29 to get him and 29 was for sale.

They might have tried to move up and it just didn't happen. But there really wasn't a DL/Edge pick at 32 when they got there, except MAYBE Fergueson. . I would have traded down and tried to pick up Fergueson at the top of 2nd and get the big WR later in the 2nd or 3rd.

I just see what our division rivals did and compare it to us. We are once again going to have to manufacture pressure since we won't have a single guy on the roster who can do it on his own under 34.

As for Zack Allen, I'm not a big fan. Decent player who wouldn't hurt, but I'd rather get Anthony Nelson (Iowa). Not as strong, but more of an explosive player. Allen reminds me of a 3-4 DE. He'd have been a good fit for that position in 2004

I wanted Tillery as well. I think 1st Rd should be QB, OL/DL, CB strictly w the exception of S. Unless their a transcendent player I'd stick w that w a little room to play around w.

Ferguson would be too much of a reach for me.

And fwiw Allen has a better burst off the line than Nelson. Nelson is very inconsistent off the los while Allen actually had a nice jump & would rival his teammate Ray who is a pretty decent speed rusher.

In the end both graded out pretty close around 2nd-mid 3rd.

 

[PatsFan2]

By the end of today I expect One of Lock,Rosen,Grier to be a Pat.

So on cut-down day Lock would be a lock?? I want a QB with a different name.

 

[Real World]

Kudos to you guys in here. The knowledge you guys toss out here on these prospects is off the charts. Well done.

 

[skinnydog]

But that's the thing, isn't it? The .2, .o5 time difference in a 40 is virtually meaningless, as training with the right guy might make you that much better in a 40 (first step, etc), but means nothing when you put on the pads and have to go by someone who's slapping at you.

Hair-splitting, to me. The Pats already have a guy who ran a 4.29 and 4.27 at his pro-day, has good hands and a high catch rate, by the way.

I agree. I think Harry is fast enough and has all the boxes checked for a Pats type of receiver--quick for his size, can run all the routes and has actually done so in college, good in space, great at YAC, can take a short pass and make the first guy miss, great hands, and reportedly works really hard on the practice field and in the weight room, i.e. loves football. If he is just a possession receiver, well the Pats and Brady love those and he's a possession receiver that excels at making contested catches, likely including making tough "possession" catches in the end zone.

 

[State]

By the end of today I expect One of Lock,Rosen,Grier to be a Pat.

Sounds as though Miami is huffing and puffing to make Rosen theirs. He is head and shoulders above the two other guys as a pro QB. Great value.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

Gordon didn't run a 4.52..

He did

 

[manxman2601]

Sounds as though Miami is huffing and puffing to make Rosen theirs. He is head and shoulders above the two other guys as a pro QB. Great value.

3 of the 4 QBs from last year in division now.

 

[State]

Kudos to you guys in here. The knowledge you guys toss out here on these prospects is off the charts. Well done.

We have no life. There’s a reason the late, great Joel Buchsbaum led the life he did.

Here’s background on him.
Mock Drafts: An Oral History

Fascinating how Belichick so trusted him and was one of the few to show up to his funeral. Righteous deed, Bill.

RIP, Joel Buchsbaum.

 

[Ring 6]

Did McCdainles get hold of BB's incriminating photo? We are spending all of resources on O, two firsts last year and one this year.

JK.

This might explain it.

Team Game Finder Query Results | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[RobertWeathers]

Rosen’s hands measure 9 7/8”. Most of the QBs are in the 9 range.

Garoppolo was like 9 1/4”.

That’s supposed to be important in colder climes like ours when the snow is falling. EDIT: Make Rosen’s hand measurements accurate.

There has never been an official measurement of TB12 paws but my understanding is they are of Hamburger Helper proportions. That came from Scott Pioli as he was commenting on how helpful big hands are in the northeast.

 

[scott99]

Just read a nauseating tweet from Ethan Hammerman (don't know who he is). He said " Heard a little buzz last night that the Patriots may be bigger fans of Tyree Jackson than initially thought. I think the Patriots will use one of their picks on a QB tonight, and he could be it".

I pray that it's not earlier than their LAST 3rd round pick. I'd be fine with trading up for Drew Lock (whom I like A LOT) or staying put for Will Grier (whom I also like a lot), but DO NOT use a 2nd round pick on Tyree Jackson. That's just as bad a pick as Jones going 6th overall (maybe worse).

 

[manxman2601]

Just read a nauseating tweet from Ethan Hammerman (don't know who he is). He said " Heard a little buzz last night that the Patriots may be bigger fans of Tyree Jackson than initially thought. I think the Patriots will use one of their picks on a QB tonight, and he could be it".

I pray that it's not earlier than their LAST 3rd round pick. I'd be fine with trading up for Drew Lock (whom I like A LOT) or staying put for Will Grier (whom I also like a lot), but DO NOT use a 2nd round pick on Tyree Jackson. That's just as bad a pick as Jones going 6th overall (maybe worse).

Unless it’s to play TE, no thanks.

 

[KNUSNGH]

I would keep an eye on Michigan cornerback David Long.

?
overview?
He has the intangibles and checks all of the boxes when it comes to what Belichick seems to prefer in combine scores, specifically for the 3-cone drill.

?
strengths?
He has no red flags character wise. He played as a lockdown man coverage corner for Michigan. He's great at press coverage and rarely allows free releases, showing great patience against release fakes. In fact, quarterbacks tended to not target him much.

?
weaknesses?
His weaknesses show up in size and versatility. He's a bit small to compete against tall receivers in the NFL, but could transition to the slot. As for versatility, by no fault of his own, he didn't play any zone coverage. He has shown great awareness for hi-lo reads, trusts his safeties, and doesn't freelance, so perhaps he could develop the skills to play zone coverage.

The biggest concern would be run support. He doesn't have many tackles and sometimes reacts slowly to runs. A part of the lack of tackles comes from his assignment in playing man coverage, putting him out of the play. Another part of low tackling numbers would be from quarterbacks not targeting him often.

?
projection?
He shows promise to develop into a solid run defender. He takes good angles and has good technique to take on blocks. His lack of strength and size are really the only limitations, but he excelled despite that. He could develop into an elite slot corner on passing downs and nickel packages, and he has outperformed expectations based on his perceived limitations.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the late second round or third round.

 

[hornetfb85]

 

[SBLIII]

I would keep an eye on Michigan cornerback David Long.

?
overview?
He has the intangibles and checks all of the boxes when it comes to what Belichick seems to prefer in combine scores, specifically for the 3-cone drill.

?
strengths?
He has no red flags whatsoever character wise and played as a lockdown man coverage corner for Michigan. He's great at press coverage and rarely allows free releases, showing great patience against release fakes. In fact, quarterbacks tended to not target him much.

?
weaknesses?
His weaknesses show up in size and versatility. He's a bit small to compete against tall receivers in the NFL, but could transition to the slot. As for versatility, by no fault of his own, he didn't play any zone coverage. He has shown great awareness for hi-lo reads, trusts his safeties, and doesn't freelance, so perhaps he could develop the skills to play zone coverage.

The biggest concern would be run support. He doesn't have many tackles and sometimes reacts slowly to runs. A part of the lack of tackles comes from his assignment in playing man coverage, putting him out of the play. Another part of low tackling numbers would be from quarterbacks not targeting him often.

?
projection?
He shows promise to develop into a run defender. He takes good angles and has goos technique to take on blocks. His lack of strength and size are really the only limitations, but he excelled despite that. He could develop into an elite slot corner on passing downs and nickel packages, and he has outperformed expectations based on his perceived limitations.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the late second round or third round.

100% agreed. I hope we can get him.