Patriots interested in CBs before the trade deadline

[Deus Irae]

We know the defense is average at best right now but I think they're good enough to get enough stops to allow the great offense to win games. I do not think they are good enough to handle multiple short fields, offensive fumbles or int's, squib kicks or a 97 yard KR. I think they have been improving and I think they are further along at least communication wise than they were at this point last season. I think they are better up front than last season although I'll admit that you were correct about Shelton and he has been a disappointment and thus not as good up front as I expected.

Anyway we have the hapless Bills and Rodgers coming up. I think they win both of those games if they don't ask the defense to make up for offensive or ST deficiencies. They have enough of their own to make up for. Kick the ball out of the endzone and hold on to the ball.

The defense blows right now, though it's not quite as bad in some areas as it was earlier in the season. It'll get better. It always does. But the team has surrendered 71 points in the past two games, so we should cheer the wins when we're being fans, and acknowledge that the defense has been garbage when we're wearing our analyst hats. Trubisky wasn't running free because of short fields, offensive fumbles, squib kicks or 97 yard KRs. Bears wide receivers weren't getting open because Sony Michel was hurt. Burton wasn't beating the **** out of Patriots defenders because Develin didn't hold on to a pass.

 

[Tony2046]

The defense blows right now, though it's not quite as bad in some areas as it was earlier in the season. It'll get better. It always does. But the team has surrendered 71 points in the past two games, so we should cheer the wins when we're being fans, and acknowledge that the defense has been garbage when we're wearing our analyst hats. Trubisky wasn't running free because of short fields, offensive fumbles, squib kicks or 97 yard KRs. Bears wide receivers weren't getting open because Sony Michel was hurt. Burton wasn't beating the **** out of Patriots defenders because Develin didn't hold on to a pass.

Their receivers, TEs and Trubisky got additional opportunities to put up yards and points because of those miscues. Those miscues also put the defense back on the field without rest.

 

[maineman209]

We know the defense is average at best right now but I think they're good enough to get enough stops to allow the great offense to win games. I do not think they are good enough to handle multiple short fields, offensive fumbles or int's, squib kicks or a 97 yard KR. I think they have been improving and I think they are further along at least communication wise than they were at this point last season. I think they are better up front than last season although I'll admit that you were correct about Shelton and he has been a disappointment and thus not as good up front as I expected.

Anyway we have the hapless Bills and Rodgers coming up. I think they win both of those games if they don't ask the defense to make up for offensive or ST deficiencies. They have enough of their own to make up for. Kick the ball out of the endzone and hold on to the ball.

For this week, I'd just like to see how the defense looks when the offense and ST play a mistake-free game.

Then - next week - I want to see how the defense looks against an opposing offense that can actually do some damage, while the Pats offense and ST play another mistake-free game.

 

[Observer]

Defense is pretty average:
Game Average PPG Of Opponent Points allowed by Pats Defense
Texans 22.1 20
Jaguars 16.6 31
Lions 26.2 26
Dolphins 21.6 7
Colts 27.0 24
Chiefs 37.1 40
Bears 28.3 38

 

[Deus Irae]

Their receivers, TEs and Trubisky got additional opportunities to put up yards and points because of those miscues. Those miscues also put the defense back on the field without rest.

Opportunities happen throughout the course of a game, regardless of turnovers and miscues.

Here, let me try another angle:

1. Go look at how many 3-and-outs the Bears had that didn't involve a Bears penalty
2. The Brady INT happened at the Bears 34 yard line, and the Bears starting field position for that drive was their own 37. Which leads to...
   
3. Where were the defensive stops (3 points or less) on the turnovers? KO fumble - TD, INT - TD, RB fumble - TD

 

[zydecochris]

Fast linebacker please

Because of the problems with covering tight ends and running back, instead of a fast linebacker I wonder if a big safety would be an alternative? I'm thinking of Landon Collins, a big safety at 224 lbs, great in run support, a big hitter, still only 24. He is on the last year of his contract on a Giant team that is going nowhere, will they really give him a big contract with the money they just shelled out on OBJ and with money needed for a new QB? What about this type of big safety instead of a fast LB?

 

[Deus Irae]

Because of the problems with covering tight ends and running back, instead of a fast linebacker I wonder if a big safety would be an alternative? I'm thinking of Landon Collins, a big safety at 224 lbs, great in run support, a big hitter, still only 24. He is on the last year of his contract on a Giant team that is going nowhere, will they really give him a big contract with the money they just shelled out on OBJ and with money needed for a new QB? What about this type of big safety instead of a fast LB?

Collins' weakness is coverage, so I'm not sure that getting him for covering tight ends and RBs really addresses the issue.

 

[primetime]

Because of the problems with covering tight ends and running back, instead of a fast linebacker I wonder if a big safety would be an alternative? I'm thinking of Landon Collins, a big safety at 224 lbs, great in run support, a big hitter, still only 24. He is on the last year of his contract on a Giant team that is going nowhere, will they really give him a big contract with the money they just shelled out on OBJ and with money needed for a new QB? What about this type of big safety instead of a fast LB?

The problem with Collins is that he's a bad tackler, so I don't think he would fit well in that role at all. Weird player, he makes a lot of tackles but he's not a very strong tackler.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Collins' weakness is coverage, so I'm not sure that getting him for covering tight ends and RBs really addresses the issue.

Hes an in-the-box safety and adequate in short to intermediate coverage and outside of Chung better than anyone else we have

 

[maineman209]

a big hitter

That's a problem. "Big hitters" generally draw more flags and miss more tackles (e.g., Big Bang Clock). BB isn't a fan and "strongly discourages" that approach on his defenses these days.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The problem with Collins is that he's a bad tackler

Collins' weakness is coverage

According to PatsFansDotCom the team should not bring back Jamie Collins. I concur.

 

[supafly]

According to PatsFansDotCom the team should not bring back Jamie Collins. I concur.

In this case they’re actually talking about safety Landon Collins, although I agree with you that the days of Jamie have passed, as well. There’s really no way that they could afford him.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

In this case they’re actually talking about safety Landon Collins, although I agree with you that the days of Jamie have passed, as well. There’s really no way that they could afford him.

Oh, wow, I misread that. Landon would be a welcome addition, although I doubt it is in the cards.

 

[Bcc66duece]

Collins' weakness is coverage, so I'm not sure that getting him for covering tight ends and RBs really addresses the issue.

If you had Collins you could leave Chung on the TE or RB and let Collins play a traditional box safety role.

 

[supafly]

Their receivers, TEs and Trubisky got additional opportunities to put up yards and points because of those miscues. Those miscues also put the defense back on the field without rest.

All fair points, Tony, but the defense has given up over 1,200 yards and 90+ points in the last two and a half games. Think about that for a second. These are the most recent 10 quarters of football to judge them on, and that’s after giving up 26 and 31 to start with a 1-2 record in the first three games.

And for as much as the pressure has helped them force errant throws at times, they’re still only sacking the QB about 2/100 dropback attempts. Even though we know that it’s not all about sacks, I think we can agree that those numbers aren’t going to cut it.

They’re giving up 25.6 points per game and 4.6 yards per rush. They have given up 415+ yards in 5/7 games this year. Point totals of 20, 31, 26, 24, 40, and 31—aside from the one very good showing at home to Miami. Not good, man. Not good at all.

 

[maineman209]

The problem with Collins is that he's a bad tackler, so I don't think he would fit well in that role at all. Weird player, he makes a lot of tackles but he's not a very strong tackler.

Makes a lot of tackles, most of them solo, because he's around the ball a lot (and partly because other Gints aren't). Misses lot of tackles due to poor technique, especially going for the big hit (ala, Big Bang Clock).

If the Pats coaches are sufficiently confident that they can fix his technique issues to warrant the investment ... ?

Then there's the question about what that investment might be, what the Gints may want in exchange versus what the Pats would be wiling to give up for what might be a half-season rental. Collins is in the last season of his rookie deal, and likely won't be cheap for 2019 and beyond. OTOH, the market responded with a resounding, "No!" to high-ticket contracts for safeties this past off-season, so a second contract for Collins might not be ridiculously expensive, either.

 

[supafly]

Collins is in the last season of his rookie deal, and likely won't be cheap for 2019 and beyond. OTOH, the market responded with a resounding, "No!" to high-ticket contracts for safeties this past off-season, so a second contract for Collins might not be ridiculously expensive, either.

I’ve got to admit that I’m somewhat surprised that Belichick hasn’t taken advantage of a down safety market in 2018. Apparently, he’s good with the current depth at the position.

 

[maineman209]

I’ve got to admit that I’m somewhat surprised that Belichick hasn’t taken advantage of a down safety market in 2018. Apparently, he’s good with the current depth at the position.

Perhaps the ultra-variable coverage schemes require something more specific - or a certain type of versatility - than we know about, and something that the potential (good) candidates lacked.

And, maybe the guys who fit the requirements didn't want to be in something other than a full-time starting role (with commensurate pay).

 

[primetime]

Makes a lot of tackles, most of them solo, because he's around the ball a lot (and partly because other Gints aren't). Misses lot of tackles due to poor technique, especially going for the big hit (ala, Big Bang Clock).

If the Pats coaches are sufficiently confident that they can fix his technique issues to warrant the investment ... ?

Then there's the question about what that investment might be, what the Gints may want in exchange versus what the Pats would be wiling to give up for what might be a half-season rental. Collins is in the last season of his rookie deal, and likely won't be cheap for 2019 and beyond. OTOH, the market responded with a resounding, "No!" to high-ticket contracts for safeties this past off-season, so a second contract for Collins might not be ridiculously expensive, either.

Also, if Collins fills a need, I'm not certain why they wouldn't have just signed Eric Reid when he was a free agent up until a few weeks ago. Reid's a better player than Collins. None of the safeties have gotten hurt and they're all playing pretty well. There are other, more pressing concerns. Unfortunately, the picked over Giants defense isn't going to address them.

 

[maineman209]

Also, if Collins fills a need, I'm not certain why they wouldn't have just signed Eric Reid when he was a free agent up until a few weeks ago. Reid's a better player than Collins. None of the safeties have gotten hurt and they're all playing pretty well. There are other, more pressing concerns. Unfortunately, the picked over Giants defense isn't going to address them.

It's possible that the Pats had some discussions with Reid that the media didn't get wind of, and that he simply didn't want to play for the Pats for whatever reason - role, money, who knows?