yukon cornelius
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.That stuff is in EVERYONE's playbook DB. Let's not ascribe things to Coughlin that don't exist.
Did you watch the same game as everyone else? They got plenty of pressure on Brady, sacking him 3 times, pressuring him nearly dozen and hitting him more than anyone should like. Saying that it didn't work is pretty insulting to both them and Brady because that would mean that Brady didn't do anything spectacular to lead this team back from 10 points down.
I was going to mention that...but forgot. I thought the Jags receivers threw a lot of key blocks on those dump offs and swing passes. Very well timed blocks and clearly premeditiated.So, during the week, I read Warren Sharp's analysis about how the Jags pass defense and pass rush had been wildly successful against 11-personnel (3WR) and relatively poor against 12, 21 and 22 sets, AND about how the Pats ran pass plays out of 12 personnel more than any other team in the league. So, I was expecting the Pats to run a lot of sets with Gronk + Allen and 2WR, or Gronk + 2RB.
Without re-watching, it appeared that McD had the Pats in 11-personnel far more than their usual (even before Gronk got hurt) and was challenging the Jags' defensive strength straight-up. Even though that likely was a factor in the weakness of the Pats' ground game, it ultimately worked.
BTW - Perhaps the major reason that the Jags swing passes were so successful early on is that their WRs got some tremendous blocks (and Rowe missed a couple tackles).
That's not true, as we learned in the brouhaha over the ASJ fumble-touchback.
Once the ball comes loose, all the same rules apply as to when a player gets possession of it as with a reception, except that the ball hitting the ground while not in player possession doesn't make the play dead.
Since Lewis was going to ground while trying to recover the loose ball, he needs to survive the ground to be considered to have possession. And without possession, he can't be down by contact.
I think that is a small contention that will be blown out of proportion. Think about it this way. You are ahead 14-10 and will get the ball to open the half. You just had a quick TD scored on you and you have a QB who has been known to give it away. Plus you are moving the ball and while still protecting that QB. Why take a risk and perhaps lose the ball, or give it back to the Pats will 30 odd seconds left.Agreed. Taking a knee with 55 seconds on the clock & holding two time outs? I was at the game, and remember thinking, wow, that is going to cost them. They might have lost the game right there (of course, those thoughts vanished in the 4th quarter when we were down by 10 and seemingly couldn't get anything going).
He wasn’t down by contact. I am not familiar with any rule that said you have to survive the ground or it’s a fumble. Once you are down by contact the ball is dead.I am getting more confused. The ref said that not surviving the ground was critical in the ASJ play. This is what the NFL ref said:
“He lost the ball,” referee Tony Corrente told a pool reporter. “It came out of his control as he was almost to the ground. Now he re-grasps the ball and by rule, now he has to complete the process of a recovery, which means he has to survive the ground again. So in recovering it, he recovered, hit the knee, started to roll and the ball came out a second time. So the ball started to move in his hands this way … he’s now out of bounds in the end zone, which now created a touchback. So he didn’t survive the recovery and didn’t survive the ground during the recovery is what happened here.”
https://nypost.com/2017/10/15/jets-fall-to-patriots-after-controversial-replay-call/
I agree but I can see the opposite point, that while it seemed like it in the stop-motion snapshot, did he have "control" of the ball?. Or rather was control established enough to overturn the call on the field. The burden of proof was on the Pats in that situation.Actually, that isn't true once possession is established. He held onto the ball and was down by contact. The ball was clearly pinned between his thigh.
No Pete. Surviving the ground is not an issue here. That only applies to making a catch while going to the ground.
When his knee is down the play is dead. At that instant it certainly looked to me like he had possession even if it was lost immediately after.
He wasn’t down by contact. I am not familiar with any rule that said you have to survive the ground or it’s a fumble. Once you are down by contact the ball is dead.
That's not true, as we learned in the brouhaha over the ASJ fumble-touchback.
Once the ball comes loose, all the same rules apply as to when a player gets possession of it as with a reception, except that the ball hitting the ground while not in player possession doesn't make the play dead.
Since Lewis was going to ground while trying to recover the loose ball, he needs to survive the ground to be considered to have possession. And without possession, he can't be down by contact.
It’s very questionable.I think that is a small contention that will be blown out of proportion. Think about it this way. You are ahead 14-10 and will get the ball to open the half. You just had a quick TD scored on you and you have a QB who has been known to give it away. Plus you are moving the ball and while still protecting that QB. Why take a risk and perhaps lose the ball, or give it back to the Pats will 30 odd seconds left.
While I see your point, I can see why Maronne chose to sit on it to close out the half.
ASJ lost possession before hitting the ground and regained it after he was out of bounds.Once you are down by contact, while having possession of the ball, the ball is dead.
It seems that to be declared in possession of the ball, whether you are catching a pass while falling to the ground or recovering a fumble while falling to the ground, possession is attained only by surviving the ground. Unless Corrente is wrong...
I originally agreed 100% with you, but (like Blake Bortles) I am losing confidence by the minute!
patfanken said:BUT like most (but not all) of BB's teams, this was a very hard working, focused and mentally tough group that epitomized the concept of the "sum being greater than the individual parts".
Haven't read through everything but last year Atlanta was criticized for not running the ball in the second half. This year the Jags are criticized for running the ball in the second half. Can they make up their minds!They were shortening the game, with a 10 point lead, you got to run it. If they pass the ball too much, Bortles might turn into Bortles.