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Idle thoughts - the "3rd and 18" edition

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Nunchucks

    Nunchucks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They were shortening the game, with a 10 point lead, you got to run it. If they pass the ball too much, Bortles might turn into Bortles.
     
  2. Sicilian

    Sicilian Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I agree. They didn't want to pull a Falcons and give Brady extra possessions to get it together. So they stuck with a gameplan that had worked for them in the first half, the problem was the Patriots adjusted to it.
     
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  3. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal Weekly Picks Winner

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    As others have said, Marrone was conservative in his play-calling all game long, not just late. He kept calling the kind of runs and short passes that had worked for 3 quarters and had controlled the clock very well. The Patriots defense simply adjusted. You could say that he should have had Bortles sling it downfield, but THAT would have been an example of deviating from what had been working and a surefire way to blow it.

    Thank you Ken, for your great opening posts, as usual. A great way to start the day!
     
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  4. SacPete1

    SacPete1 On the Game Day Roster

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    Jack's initial swipe, causes a loss of possession. The ball clearly moves. As Lewis is going down, he does as you point out, appear to pin the ball against his thigh but this is watching it in slow motion and the key here is he is going to the ground as he attempts to regain possession which then brings the whole "surviving the ground" criteria into play. He doesn't maintain possession through the fall and that seems pretty obvious.

    Anyways, we can agree to disagree on this one and if anything it highlights the rather complex rule on possession and re-possession.

    It didn't really matter in the end anyway.
     
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  5. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal Weekly Picks Winner

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    I don't think "surviving the ground" applies to anything but a reception.

    The question is whether you call pinning the ball against your leg and making it stop moving for a second or so to be gaining possession being in possession at the point that you are down by contact. I hoped it would be overturned, but didn't think it would be. I think that they got it right.

    It's good that it is being discussed. With all of the bellyaching about the referees, we sure ought to note that the most impactful close call went AGAINST the Patriots, not for them.
     
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  6. tasmlab

    tasmlab Starting QB, won 20 SBs, number is retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great post, Ken, thanks!

    In this game, like many other Pats game, the Patriots seem to learn, refine, figure things out and get less tired as the game progresses, fully mastering it by the end. The other team seems to lose their knowledge, get tired and turn to dust by the end. Almost like a way less dramatic version of last year's super bowl.
     
  7. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    While we’re at it, could we please get rid of Gronk and Edelman? Can’t make plays from the locker room fellas! How about Amendola? We’ve gotta treat that guy all year like he is made of glass. Enough already.
     
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  8. cscirpoli

    cscirpoli Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Looking at the play in super slow no, it looked like he trapped it against his hip. My buddy and I who is a Redskins fan decided it was probably akin to the catch rule, once you start to loose possession you have to have a clear recovery and survive the ground. I thought it was a pretty good call even though it didn't go our way.
     
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  9. cscirpoli

    cscirpoli Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Also, I thought Harrison had that strip sack on Bortles? But the Jags recovered.
     
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  10. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN PatsFans.com #1 Arguer PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that was Harrison, but I'll have to go back and watch. Huge LOL at the Steelers for letting the Pats scoop him up. He's been nothing short of huge for this team since signing.
     
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  11. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I find all commentators, much like all news broadcasters, to be biased. It is usually much more apparent when they are biased in a way that I disagree with.

    Having said that, Nance is starting to wear thin on me.

    I thought the Jags were trying to assert that they were the tougher team. The refs were giving them more leeway than I felt was fair. They ignored an earlier hit on a defenseless receiver and I said then that someone was going to get hurt if they didn't Tighten up their calls. Sure enough, they took out Gronk. Great trade off for them. 15 measely yards for removing our best receiver. Also watch the replay of the white touchdown. A jags player (Jack maybe) got away with a lot of extra curricular activity. Again, they were trying to out physical the pats

    On the Lewis fumble, I really wish lead blocking linemen paid more attention to the rear pursuit. There wasn't much in front of Lewis. Needed a lineman to peel back and take out Jack

    Dany Amendola. Weren't there posters calling for him to be cut early in the season? This guy is money when you need him.

    I am glad we were up by more than 3pts. The jags kicker was excellent. Their team played very well. Tough win.
     
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  12. p8ryts

    p8ryts 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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  13. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was Harrison
     
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  14. p8ryts

    p8ryts 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Great job as usual. Glad to see someone giving props to OL, thought they did very well. Solder great, Fleming did his job. Never did hear Yannick's name called.
    Jax whining about penalties but they held the receivers arms down several times with no call, hands to the face by their RT on our LDE. I was surprised by the lack of Devlin and the straight ahead running game. Their speed held the wide stuff in check. It was a real TOUGH game.
    Surprised at how much Eric Lee played. Harrison a liability first half, contributed in 4th qtr.
    Another great win.
     
  15. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Burn it all down! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's not true, as we learned in the brouhaha over the ASJ fumble-touchback.

    Once the ball comes loose, all the same rules apply as to when a player gets possession of it as with a reception, except that the ball hitting the ground while not in player possession doesn't make the play dead.

    Since Lewis was going to ground while trying to recover the loose ball, he needs to survive the ground to be considered to have possession. And without possession, he can't be down by contact.
     
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  16. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Burn it all down! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Speaking of the Lewis fumble play, I see the scorers gave Amendola a pass completion and Lewis a pass reception. Sure looked to me on replay that Lewis was even with or behind Amendola, so it should have been scored a lateral and rushing yards for Lewis. Not that the difference matters to the game, of course.
     
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  17. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member

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    No Pete. Surviving the ground is not an issue here. That only applies to making a catch while going to the ground.
    When his knee is down the play is dead. At that instant it certainly looked to me like he had possession even if it was lost immediately after.
     
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  18. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member

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    No. ASJ issue was he didn’t regain possession until after he was out of bounds. Has nothing to do with surviving the ground.
     
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  19. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That stuff is in EVERYONE's playbook DB. Let's not ascribe things to Coughlin that don't exist.
     
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  20. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal Weekly Picks Winner

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    I am getting more confused. The ref said that not surviving the ground was critical in the ASJ play. This is what the NFL ref said:

    “He lost the ball,” referee Tony Corrente told a pool reporter. “It came out of his control as he was almost to the ground. Now he re-grasps the ball and by rule, now he has to complete the process of a recovery, which means he has to survive the ground again. So in recovering it, he recovered, hit the knee, started to roll and the ball came out a second time. So the ball started to move in his hands this way … he’s now out of bounds in the end zone, which now created a touchback. So he didn’t survive the recovery and didn’t survive the ground during the recovery is what happened here.”

    https://nypost.com/2017/10/15/jets-fall-to-patriots-after-controversial-replay-call/
     
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