Do Patriot fans have less loyalty to Tom Brady than Browns fans did to Bernie Kosar

[RobertWeathers]

Meh...I want to see BB try to start from scratch!

I'd rather have a colonoscopy everyday for a year than live through a 1-15 season.

I have and it sucks. Bad

 

[PatriotsReign]

I'd rather have a colonoscopy everyday for a year than live through a 1-15 season.

I have and it sucks. Bad

Of course, I agree

You do realize my comment was a joke, I know you do

 

[RobertWeathers]

Of course, I agree

You do realize my comment was a joke, I know you do

I know. All good.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I guess Igor doesn't understand what the goofy face means

Oh, I mean Ivan

I do, I just don't think you offer anything interesting and almost always post simply to aggravate people. Passive aggressiveness and wanting to push people's buttons is a sign of deeper mental and emotional issues, you should get help for that.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I do, I just don't think you offer anything interesting and almost always post simply to aggravate people. Passive aggressiveness and wanting to push people's buttons is a sign of deeper mental and emotional issues, you should get help for that.

It's an internet board for crying out loud.

And it's called a sense of humor my brathu. Show me where I've been "aggressive".

I'm just like this in real life too and I have a gazillion real friends...as opposed to imaginary internet friends

A fair amount of us aren't into the details of the salary cap or debating a cover 3 versus a hybrid zone defense.

But I guarantee you I'm a certified top echelon New England Patriots fan

I'm 58, how old are you?

 

[Clonamery]

But I guarantee you I'm a certified top echelon New England Patriots fan.

Guarantees are always the clincher for me...certification not so much.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Guarantees are always the clincher for me...certification not so much.

I watched my first game at the age of 6 in 1965 and haven't stopped since. Jim Nance was our star running back.

So when did your fandom start?

 

[Huckleberry1]

What should I do as a Patriots fan who has these emotional states as regards Tom Brady, but am aware of empirical considerations that have changed, and continue to change, year after year?

I stipulate of course that when the change comes is not mine to know. We don't have empirical evidence now. We also don't know the Foxborough calculus that determines when "a year too early is," and whether this calculus is the same for TFB as for everybody else.



We'll miss you when TFB goes.

(and yeah this thread is still going)

You really love hearing yourself talk, but it was really just blather. The truth and the bottom line is that you have absolutely NOTHING when it comes to " empirical evidence." All you have is Kellermans cliff. You and all the others who have a boner for Jimmy Garrapolo are incapable of making any factual argument that points to Brady's decline, and that's why you try to cover it in contrived overly intellectual blather like the post quoted here, which had to be heavily redacted for clarity's sake. But anyone who has a problem sleeping can still call it up and try to get through it.

Brady is the best player in football and he has been getting better and better the past few seasons, which is why you can't make any fact based argument to back up your position. Furthermore he is the primary reason the Patriots are heavy favorites to win the Super Bowl this season, so while "Patriot fans" like you are actually rooting for him to suck,so your binky will get a chance to play, rational onlookers and actual Patriot fans realize he's going to be the best player in football for the foreseeable future. And no one gets rid of the best player in football when they winning them championship after championship, which is exactly what Brady has been doing, while your binky couldn't even get them halfway through the four games he was actually counted in to play.

As far as rooting for other teams goes you are the one who will be getting on that bus, as the object of your daily wood is the one who will be leaving town, and the GOAT will be sticking around to win the more Lombardi's . Have fun rooting for the Browns.

 

[Huckleberry1]

What should I do as a Patriots fan who has these emotional states as regards Tom Brady, but am aware of empirical considerations that have changed, and continue to change, year after year?

I stipulate of course that when the change comes is not mine to know. We don't have empirical evidence now. We also don't know the Foxborough calculus that determines when "a year too early is," and whether this calculus is the same for TFB as for everybody else.

All stipulated. I have man love for Brady, let's even say it's greater than yours. But my gray matter is capable of projecting possible futures. What am I to do, when our emotional states are identical as regards Brady, yet mine is tempered by knowledge of future uncertainties, and most likely "models" of how the Patriots have managed future downside risk?

Should I be ruled solely by my emotion, or should I entertain "clumps of outcomes" where, to my layman's eye, the uncertainties have greater chances of collapsing into actual events?

Your emotions are the heart of being a fan, read, fanatic. So are mine, so are all of ours.

I've seen potatoes on here impugning my Brady-love for the sin of listening to the analytical side of my brain. I freely admit it could be wrong, and that Brady is magic. But in every other case, the QB has not been magic or immortal. Ask "Magic Man" Majkowski. Ask his usurper, Brett Favrevrah. As the pre-Brady Brady, and Brady's hero, Joe Montana.

Your man-love for Brady is scheduled to change. There are three norns in Greek mythology who are presently watching Brady's career. One spins out the yarn of his career, one measures it, and one cuts it. Yes, the Norns now watch football.

Cope.

JG only comes into play because to the extent that he fits the bill as successor (which might well be overexxagerated,) one question for future scenarios is answered.

To gauge this function of the JG variable, of course, there are confounding factors:
(1) He might be made of glass, and the coaching staff might have so judged him - and this is a head fake
(2) He might be fairly durable, which the coaching staff thinks is likely the deal - and asking high picks is selling high (but nobody's buying)
(3) They might be trying to keep him warm, just in case.
(4) They might really really want to see what he can do, because the future is coming.

These are again big variables, as to how we place JG in any Brady conversation.

But whatever it's about it's not about how you have a bigger man crush on TFB than everybody else. It's about watching these developments with our eyes open, whatever our hearts say.

And I'm really, really sorry about Bernie Kosar. Not to mention Drew Bledsoe.

Don't talk short-term to me. "The day may come when the body of Brady fails, but this is not that day!" Okay I'm with you. We're not talking about today, we're talking about tomorrow, and when tomorrow comes.

Because however long or glorious the day, the night comes.

At some point we're just looking for the best possible Morning In New England.

It. Will. Happen.

And YES I love Tom freakin Brady - despite the fact that you and I both know he would never give a crap about meeting you, me, or anybody else on this board. We're part of the machine that pays for him. To him, we're ants in the way for the foundation of his next home, more or less. Then on a ******** talk basis, we related to him and him to us in a loving way.

You. Are. His. Fan. You mean nothing to him. You and I owe nothing to him. He doesn't really love us. Individually he doesn't know us or know of us. He does not give a ****, and neither could you if you were him. Too many people to "love."

He's the unprecedentedly successful QB of the team I follow. If we're thinking clearly, isn't that it?

I LOVE watching what he's done. I LOVE arguing against any idiot still claiming that his accolades aren't all they're cracked up to be. I am rooting for one, two, 5 superbowls more with the Patriots. The legend builds and builds and builds, huzzah! The dumb part of my brain is tickled.

But when it becomes Team Interest vs. Brady Interest, I'm a team fan, not a Brady fan.

We'll miss you when TFB goes.

(and yeah this thread is still going)

Good luck making any case for getting rid of Brady after he leads them to their third Lombardi in four years, you'll look even more ridiculous than you do now, and that's a high bar to clear.

 

[Clonamery]

I watched my first game at the age of 6 in 1965 and haven't stopped since. Jim Nance was our star running back.

So when did your fandom start?

28-3.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Kellerman's cliff is the concept all the morons who want to replace Brady with Garrapolo use because they can't find a scrap of evidence to show that Brady is on the decline. And you understand that fully because you are one of them. Get back to me when you can actually make a coherent argument to back your position up. "But but but but he's going to be 37........but but but he's going to be 38.......but but but but he's going to be 39..........." is garbage.

Well, first of all, I'm not a moron, nor a random name-calling internet troll. Are you?

Secondly, you name people you disagree with, call them morons, and say they want to replace Brady w/Garappolo. Then you say I am one of them -- that is, people who want Garappolo instead of Brady. In pretty much every post here, I have said that I am not - but that if Bill Belichick is such a "moron," then he's got my backing.

Thirdly, your explanation scores much higher on the vitriol scale than on the content scale.

Is your contention that you can create a strawman ("he's going to be 37, he's going to be 38, etc."), append it to those who've never said it, and ignore the yawning chasm in the argument? To wit, there is an integer representing a biological age at which Brady's ability to perform will be severely enough degraded that he and the Patriots part ways?

Do you deny this?

Please let me know how committed you are to the denial of this "cliff" idea of yours. You maintain, I take it, that there will never be a time at which Brady's play will decline severely enough that he is not the best option on the field?

If this is not the case, do you think it possible that he will disagree with the team about when this time is?

I think that it is likely that his evaluation of his remaining potential and the team's evaluation of his remaining potential will at some point disagree.

On the other hand, they might have identically aligned analyses, even though their interests are not identical (by nature.)

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Good luck making any case for getting rid of Brady after he leads them to their third Lombardi in four years, you'll look even more ridiculous than you do now, and that's a high bar to clear.

Actually, I'm not arguing here, nor have I argued here, that Brady is likely to have a bad year this year, or a sub-spectacular year for that matter.

Read my posts again, move your lips if it helps, and talk to me when you've caught up.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Well, first of all, I'm not a moron, nor a random name-calling internet troll. Are you?

Secondly, you name people you disagree with, call them morons, and say they want to replace Brady w/Garappolo. Then you say I am one of them -- that is, people who want Garappolo instead of Brady. In pretty much every post here, I have said that I am not - but that if Bill Belichick is such a "moron," then he's got my backing.

Thirdly, your explanation scores much higher on the vitriol scale than on the content scale.

Is your contention that you can create a strawman ("he's going to be 37, he's going to be 38, etc."), append it to those who've never said it, and ignore the yawning chasm in the argument? To wit, there is an integer representing a biological age at which Brady's ability to perform will be severely enough degraded that he and the Patriots part ways?

Do you deny this?

Please let me know how committed you are to the denial of this "cliff" idea of yours. You maintain, I take it, that there will never be a time at which Brady's play will decline severely enough that he is not the best option on the field?

If this is not the case, do you think it possible that he will disagree with the team about when this time is?

I think that it is likely that his evaluation of his remaining potential and the team's evaluation of his remaining potential will at some point disagree.

On the other hand, they might have identically aligned analyses, even though their interests are not identical (by nature.)

Yes, I think the people who want to replace Brady with Garrapolo are morons, and it's because the idea is "moronic." And don't try to trot out the name calling bullish.t when you are telling me that I'm going to be rooting for another team because they are going to get rid of Brady. It's s cut and dryed situation no matter how much you want to try to turn it into an intellectual debate, Brady is not only the best player in football and the greatest player of all time, but he's been getting better as he gets older and since you can't either grasp that or make any argument to support your position you do everything you can to try and obfuscate those basic facts. As I have said repeatedly, get back to those of us who believe in Brady and can back it up when you have an actual factual argument you can make that Brady is declining. What I see is a player who will continue to give them the best odds in football to win Super Bowls, and replacing him with a guy who couldn't make it through two games when he was only needed for four is the height of stupidity. Have fun rooting for the Brown's, as that is the still going to be the most likely place your binky will end up.

Let me know when you can actually back up your position, to date you have nothing.

 

[Huckleberry1]

We'll miss you when TFB goes.

I'm not the one who will be moving on.

 

[Huckleberry1]

What should I do as a Patriots fan who has these emotional states as regards Tom Brady, but am aware of empirical considerations that have changed, and continue to change, year after year?

I stipulate of course that when the change comes is not mine to know. We don't have empirical evidence now. We also don't know the Foxborough calculus that determines when "a year too early is," and whether this calculus is the same for TFB as for everybody else.

All stipulated. I have man love for Brady, let's even say it's greater than yours. But my gray matter is capable of projecting possible futures. What am I to do, when our emotional states are identical as regards Brady, yet mine is tempered by knowledge of future uncertainties, and most likely "models" of how the Patriots have managed future downside risk?

Should I be ruled solely by my emotion, or should I entertain "clumps of outcomes" where, to my layman's eye, the uncertainties have greater chances of collapsing into actual events?

Your emotions are the heart of being a fan, read, fanatic. So are mine, so are all of ours.

I've seen potatoes on here impugning my Brady-love for the sin of listening to the analytical side of my brain. I freely admit it could be wrong, and that Brady is magic. But in every other case, the QB has not been magic or immortal. Ask "Magic Man" Majkowski. Ask his usurper, Brett Favrevrah. As the pre-Brady Brady, and Brady's hero, Joe Montana.

Your man-love for Brady is scheduled to change. There are three norns in Greek mythology who are presently watching Brady's career. One spins out the yarn of his career, one measures it, and one cuts it. Yes, the Norns now watch football.

Cope.

JG only comes into play because to the extent that he fits the bill as successor (which might well be overexxagerated,) one question for future scenarios is answered.

To gauge this function of the JG variable, of course, there are confounding factors:
(1) He might be made of glass, and the coaching staff might have so judged him - and this is a head fake
(2) He might be fairly durable, which the coaching staff thinks is likely the deal - and asking high picks is selling high (but nobody's buying)
(3) They might be trying to keep him warm, just in case.
(4) They might really really want to see what he can do, because the future is coming.

These are again big variables, as to how we place JG in any Brady conversation.

But whatever it's about it's not about how you have a bigger man crush on TFB than everybody else. It's about watching these developments with our eyes open, whatever our hearts say.

And I'm really, really sorry about Bernie Kosar. Not to mention Drew Bledsoe.

Don't talk short-term to me. "The day may come when the body of Brady fails, but this is not that day!" Okay I'm with you. We're not talking about today, we're talking about tomorrow, and when tomorrow comes.

Because however long or glorious the day, the night comes.

At some point we're just looking for the best possible Morning In New England.

It. Will. Happen.

And YES I love Tom freakin Brady - despite the fact that you and I both know he would never give a crap about meeting you, me, or anybody else on this board. We're part of the machine that pays for him. To him, we're ants in the way for the foundation of his next home, more or less. Then on a ******** talk basis, we related to him and him to us in a loving way.

You. Are. His. Fan. You mean nothing to him. You and I owe nothing to him. He doesn't really love us. Individually he doesn't know us or know of us. He does not give a ****, and neither could you if you were him. Too many people to "love."

He's the unprecedentedly successful QB of the team I follow. If we're thinking clearly, isn't that it?

I LOVE watching what he's done. I LOVE arguing against any idiot still claiming that his accolades aren't all they're cracked up to be. I am rooting for one, two, 5 superbowls more with the Patriots. The legend builds and builds and builds, huzzah! The dumb part of my brain is tickled.

But when it becomes Team Interest vs. Brady Interest, I'm a team fan, not a Brady fan.

We'll miss you when TFB goes.

(and yeah this thread is still going)

Possibly the smarmiest post I have ever read. It's really comical to see pretentious bullish.t about your "empirical" and "analytical" brain when you can't back up your contention that they will get rid of Brady with a single fact that it would make any sense.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Possibly the smarmiest post I have ever read. It's really comical to see pretentious bullish.t about your "empirical" and "analytical" brain when you can't back up your contention that they will get rid of Brady with a single fact that it would make any sense.

Passive/aggressive or aggressive/aggression?

 

[PatriotsReign]

28-3.

Ahhh, a band-wagoner!

 

[Huckleberry1]

Well, first of all, I'm not a moron, nor a random name-calling internet troll. Are you?

Secondly, you name people you disagree with, call them morons, and say they want to replace Brady w/Garappolo. Then you say I am one of them -- that is, people who want Garappolo instead of Brady. In pretty much every post here, I have said that I am not - but that if Bill Belichick is such a "moron," then he's got my backing.

Thirdly, your explanation scores much higher on the vitriol scale than on the content scale.

Is your contention that you can create a strawman ("he's going to be 37, he's going to be 38, etc."), append it to those who've never said it, and ignore the yawning chasm in the argument? To wit, there is an integer representing a biological age at which Brady's ability to perform will be severely enough degraded that he and the Patriots part ways?

Do you deny this?

Please let me know how committed you are to the denial of this "cliff" idea of yours. You maintain, I take it, that there will never be a time at which Brady's play will decline severely enough that he is not the best option on the field?

If this is not the case, do you think it possible that he will disagree with the team about when this time is?

I think that it is likely that his evaluation of his remaining potential and the team's evaluation of his remaining potential will at some point disagree.

On the other hand, they might have identically aligned analyses, even though their interests are not identical (by nature.)

Here's some empirical facts, just so you understand the concept.

Brady had 28 touchdowns and 2 interceptions last season.

Brady went 15 and 1 last season.

Jimmy Garrapolo couldn't make it through 2?ganes when the Patriots needed him to make it through 4.

Brady just led the Patriots to the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history.Brady has led the Patriots to 2 Lombardi's in the last 3 seasons.

Brady has gotten better statistically over the past 3 seasons when he's s detractors have been insisting he would get worse.

Those are facts, let me know if you're you ever get any to support your contention that they should keep Garrapolo and dump Brady.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Here's some empirical facts, just so you understand the concept.

Brady had 28 touchdowns and 2 interceptions last season.

Brady went 15 and 1 last season.

Jimmy Garrapolo couldn't make it through 2?ganes when the Patriots needed him to make it through 4.

Brady just led the Patriots to the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history.Brady has led the Patriots to 2 Lombardi's in the last 3 seasons.

Brady has gotten better statistically over the past 3 seasons when he's s detractors have been insisting he would get worse.

Those are facts, let me know if you're you ever get any to support your contention that they should keep Garrapolo and dump Brady.

Let's try this another way.

What do you suppose Brady's stats will be in 2027?

All your bullsh1t about me trying to "get out" of some contention you want me to have made is just that.

It is cut and dried (and that's how you spell dried, just by the by). I know Brady's stats to date. Check the thread about the numbnuts trying to compare "stats" and make a case for Rodgers being as good as Brady.

I have lots of appreciation, fandom, love, what have you for what Brady's done for us, as a fan.

I do not have so much that I think his stats will be as good in 2027 as the stats to date (including wins to date, eye test to date, etc. to date).

Do you believe that Tom Brady will be playing in the NFL in 2027?

If not, does that make you some kind of traitor?

See, because I don't.

The extension to an absurd point - when Brady is 50 - is to get your head around the certainty that his play will not, in fact, continue to improve and/or hold steady indefinitely.

So you and I have the same facts at our disposal, and they are also, by the way, at the disposal of one Bill Belichick.

Garapollo barely figures into it.

So if you want to continue to embarrass yourself by playing bile hydrant be my guest. Whatever wool-gathering I do will not have one whit of influence over the timing or circumstances of Brady's departure.

I do not know when. Those who will pull the trigger do not know when. Brady does not know when, and nobody knows whether he will believe it's "time" for him to go. Frankly, I doubt it.

Absolutely no argument that he is at the top of his game. I don't think that you want to argue that he will be at the top of his game in 2027, do you?

So which is it, tough guy? Do you think Brady will be playing in 2027, or do you think I'm right?

 

[Ring 6]

Let's try this another way.

What do you suppose Brady's stats will be in 2027?

All your bullsh1t about me trying to "get out" of some contention you want me to have made is just that.

It is cut and dried (and that's how you spell dried, just by the by). I know Brady's stats to date. Check the thread about the numbnuts trying to compare "stats" and make a case for Rodgers being as good as Brady.

I have lots of appreciation, fandom, love, what have you for what Brady's done for us, as a fan.

I do not have so much that I think his stats will be as good in 2027 as the stats to date (including wins to date, eye test to date, etc. to date).

Do you believe that Tom Brady will be playing in the NFL in 2027?

If not, does that make you some kind of traitor?

See, because I don't.

The extension to an absurd point - when Brady is 50 - is to get your head around the certainty that his play will not, in fact, continue to improve and/or hold steady indefinitely.

So you and I have the same facts at our disposal, and they are also, by the way, at the disposal of one Bill Belichick.

Garapollo barely figures into it.

So if you want to continue to embarrass yourself by playing bile hydrant be my guest. Whatever wool-gathering I do will not have one whit of influence over the timing or circumstances of Brady's departure.

I do not know when. Those who will pull the trigger do not know when. Brady does not know when, and nobody knows whether he will believe it's "time" for him to go. Frankly, I doubt it.

Absolutely no argument that he is at the top of his game. I don't think that you want to argue that he will be at the top of his game in 2027, do you?

So which is it, tough guy? Do you think Brady will be playing in 2027, or do you think I'm right?

This is an inane post. Joe thuney will be too old someday, so should we get rid of him now?