Caldwell cut

[Keegs]

It appears that Gaffney was the better pick for the pats.

When the games mattered the most Gaffney played like a champ and Caldwell made poopies in his pants.

I wish Reche luck on his next team, unless it is the Colts. If that's the case, i'd probably wish an injury

(totally kidding about the injury)

 

[mgteich]

Is it relevant that Caldwell was charging double what Gaffney is charging for playing this year, and 70% more than what Washington is charging? Do you think that he offered to take a pay cut to stay? Why would the team pay that much more for Caldwell? Is he significantly better than Washington and Gaffney. Does he play better special teams? Does he have more of an upside?

Caldwell was good insurance against any delays in Gaffney and Moss being ready.

 

[Deus Irae]

This may be pie-in-the-sky naive, but I thought Troy was really productive last year. He did very well. I think if BB felt he wasn't a valuable contributor, he'd tell Troy in one or another. HOWEVER, you may be right - maybe this is one of the few times, the EXTREME exception, where BB might bend just a little bit to bring back a guy based SOMEWHAT on his past performance. But I don't think he'd ever do so if the guy couldn't help the team.

If Belichick chooses Troy Brown as a guy who he "rewards" or something with a little extra courtesy, I think in the end, in terms of its impact on the team and goodwill - knowing that he's likely to contribute TANGIBLY as well - then that's a good idea. The team pays attention to that, too - and with stuff like Deion and Asante the last couple years, a little bone to the vets, especially when that "bone" is an incredibly hard-working, productive player, can do a world of good. And I would begrudge that psychological strategy one bit. Would you?

Absolutely! Troy Brown should have been cut. After all, look at these comments:

What Caldwell did last year is not nearly as important as what he can contribute THIS year.

Well, Troy's out at least 6 games.

If Caldwell wanted the team to make the choice early, he should have moved some of his salary to a 2007 roster bonus due on March 1, as many players have done in the past.

Draft day 2007 came after March 1, so Caldwell couldn't have known about dealing with Moss. Come to think of it, both Stallworth and Washington were also signed after the 1st, as was Welker. I'm not sure why Caldwell would have had reason to expect that the Patriots would be bringing in 4 receivers, including a Randy Moss, so I can't imagine he'd have thought it an issue.


So, screw the players, they should know better even if it's days, weeks or months in advance, and if they aren't ready to help the team, they should take a hike. They need to cut Brown immediately. After all, his contract was just a one year type. They could have cut him and brought him back afterwards if he could have helped them down the road. No exceptions for last year's #1 receiver, why give one to last year's #2 or #3 receiver?

 

[Deus Irae]

Is it relevant that Caldwell was charging double what Gaffney is charging for playing this year, and 70% more than what Washington is charging? Do you think that he offered to take a pay cut to stay?

It would certainly get me to revisit my conclusion if he were offered a position at a lower, but acceptable, number and refused. However, that has not been made public if, indeed, it did happen.

Why would the team pay that much more for Caldwell? Is he significantly better than Washington and Gaffney. Does he play better special teams? Does he have more of an upside?

Does he play special teams any worse than Washington? I don't know.

Is he a significantly better receiver than Washington to this point in their respective careers? Absolutely.

Does he have more of an upside? Well, you're asking the wrong person there. I've never bought in to the notion that physical skills are all that's encompassed by 'upside'. However, the scuttlebutt is that Washington has more of the physical tools to be a high end receiver. That and a couple of stops along the road to the unemployment line will give you Bethel Johnson.

 

[mgteich]

If you do not understand the difference between one year's mediocre performance and a lifetime of contributions to the patriots, then I can't explain. For the record, for me, it is not at all a lock that Troy Brown will be brought back to the roster at mid-season. I also have no doubt that if Caldwell had the same injuries as Brown, then he too would be on the PUP list.

I would guess that I am one of this board's biggest supporters of the players in their disputes with management. For example, I been an outspoken supporter of Law, Milloy, and many of the others (not Branch).

When reasonable, players are cut a week or two before they might have been. However, sometimes the team cannot afford the risk. For examplem I strongly opposed cutting Poteat early last year, and Hawkins this year.

With regard to Caldwell, the situation was very clear. The patriots had TWO injured wide receivers, wither of which could have ended up being out for weeks. Caldwell was judged to be the #6 receiver. He needed to stay. In addition, the team certainly HOPED that Caldwell (or perhaps one of the others) would bring a draft choice in trade. It turned out that Caldwell was worthless on the open market.

There will be many veterans signed in the next week. I wish Caldwell the best. But, if he does not get a contract, why should anyone believe that he would have gotten one last week, or the week before? Apparently, he isn't worth a half million of cap space, never mind the three times that in his patriot contract.

Absolutely! Troy Brown should have been cut. After all, look at these comments:



Well, Troy's out at least 6 games.




Draft day 2007 came after March 1, so Caldwell couldn't have known about dealing with Moss. Come to think of it, both Stallworth and Washington were also signed after the 1st, as was Welker. I'm not sure why Caldwell would have had reason to expect that the Patriots would be bringing in 4 receivers, including a Randy Moss, so I can't imagine he'd have thought it an issue.


So, screw the players, they should know better even if it's days, weeks or months in advance, and if they aren't ready to help the team, they should take a hike. They need to cut Brown immediately. After all, his contract was just a one year type. They could have cut him and brought him back afterwards if he could have helped them down the road. No exceptions for last year's #1 receiver, why give one to last year's #2 or #3 receiver?

 

[Deus Irae]

If you do not understand the difference between one year's mediocre performance and a lifetime of contributions to the patriots, then I can't explain. For the record, for me, it is not at all a lock that Troy Brown will be brought back to the roster at mid-season. I also have no doubt that if Caldwell had the same injuries as Brown, then he too would be on the PUP list.

If you do not understand that the argument was put forth that the past doesn't matter, then I can't explain. If the past doesn't matter, then the past doesn't matter. If it does, then the question is "How much?" Since you clearly are saying that it does matter, your argument here doesn't apply. As for Brown, he was an injury issue even when he was signed.

 

[RayClay]

It would certainly get me to revisit my conclusion if he were offered a position at a lower, but acceptable, number and refused. However, that has not been made public if, indeed, it did happen.





Does he play special teams any worse than Washington? I don't know.

Is he a significantly better receiver than Washington to this point in their respective careers? Absolutely.

Does he have more of an upside? Well, you're asking the wrong person there. I've never bought in to the notion that physical skills are all that's encompassed by 'upside'. However, the scuttlebutt is that Washington has more of the physical tools to be a high end receiver. That and a couple of stops along the road to the unemployment line will give you Bethel Johnson.

He got beat out. Why can't you accept that?

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

The team acquired 4 receivers in the offseason. Adding that to the existing corps of Gaffney, Caldwell, Brown (granted he's injured), Jackson (granted he's injured), and the lessers gave the team plenty of options. You can't tell me that BB hadn't ranked his receivers prior to that last preseason game and expect me to believe it. Even if it took until game 3 of the preseason for BB to decide and that only gave Caldwell a week or so of extra time, it would have been the right thing to do to let him go at that time. Doing it after all the cuts had been made and practice squads were being formed was simply wrong, in my opinion.

Ok, so you're saying it would have been better for Caldwell had we cut him one week before the mandatory cutdowns.

If that is your opinion, and I can respect it, you should at least concede that cutting Reche now instead of then will not affect his financial possibilities other than perhaps not being on a opening day roster to have his salary guaranteed.

You said earlier in the thread that none of us will ever know what he could have signed for elsewhere had we let him go sooner. However, based on recent NFL history, I can assume with extreme confidence that he wouldn't get much more, if anything, than the veteran minimum.

On the same token, if a team would have wanted to sign him last week, let alone for more than the veteran minimum, then they shouldn't have trouble cutting a player to make room.

If we had cut Randy Moss today instead, teams wouldn't hesitate to sign him simply because they just filled their 53rd spot with an undrafted rookie.

As I've said, I liked Reche, I'm thankful for what he did for this team and it's unfortunate that he's gone. But it happens. If the other 5 WRs had been healthy the entire camp and all 5 were clearly ahead of him the entire time, then I would side with you that cutting him now was wrong. But that's not what happened. Even today a reporter asked Belichick why Moss didn't go to the PUP (which isn't possible but shows the uncertainty there) With our first five games coming against AFC opponents (and every game counts when it comes to tie-breakers for home-field advantage) we needed to make sure we were in good shape at that position. I'd rather have them need to cut Reche at a not-so-perfect time rather than cut him early, have him sign somewhere, then we're thin at that position in an important stretch of the season.

 

[Deus Irae]

He got beat out. Why can't you accept that?

Go look back at every post I've made on this thread and find the one where I argued that he should have been kept over another player.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Caldwell had a nice catch against the Chargers, but he should have scored on that play.. He was a nice number 3 reciver, but he was outmatched by the talent that was added...

 

[patsox23]

Absolutely! Troy Brown should have been cut. After all, look at these comments:



Well, Troy's out at least 6 games.




Draft day 2007 came after March 1, so Caldwell couldn't have known about dealing with Moss. Come to think of it, both Stallworth and Washington were also signed after the 1st, as was Welker. I'm not sure why Caldwell would have had reason to expect that the Patriots would be bringing in 4 receivers, including a Randy Moss, so I can't imagine he'd have thought it an issue.


So, screw the players, they should know better even if it's days, weeks or months in advance, and if they aren't ready to help the team, they should take a hike. They need to cut Brown immediately. After all, his contract was just a one year type. They could have cut him and brought him back afterwards if he could have helped them down the road. No exceptions for last year's #1 receiver, why give one to last year's #2 or #3 receiver?

And the "try to be nice" cycle ends AGAIN - you are being irretrievably obstinate and ridiculous now.

 

[patsox23]

Does he play special teams any worse than Washington? I don't know.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Well why didn't you say so? You're ignorant. That explains a lot.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Reche is no longer with the team. I'm going to move on with the players we have. I'm concentrating on the New York Jets this week and that's where we're at. I'm not going to comment on players that aren't here. They can't help us against the Jets on Sunday. As a team we have to move on. It is what it is.

 

[Patriotic]

Reche is no longer with the team. I'm going to move on with the players we have. I'm concentrating on the New York Jets this week and that's where we're at. I'm not going to comment on players that aren't here. They can't help us against the Jets on Sunday. As a team we have to move on. It is what it is.

You did some good things in that post . . . but let's not put you in Canton just yet.

 

[patsox23]

Reche is no longer with the team. I'm going to move on with the players we have. I'm concentrating on the New York Jets this week and that's where we're at. I'm not going to comment on players that aren't here. They can't help us against the Jets on Sunday. As a team we have to move on. It is what it is.

Outstanding! Bill Belichick, our newest member. Welcome aboard. (Now get back to work.)

 

[RayClay]

Go look back at every post I've made on this thread and find the one where I argued that he should have been kept over another player.

Unfortunately I read most of them.

You've been whining that the Patriots screwed him because they didn't cut him earlier, when in fact he was in a tough competition and got beat out. There are only 4 pre season games and Washington apparently showed more.

 

[Mark Morse]

The guys at Patriots insiders hinted that they were really trying hard to work out a trade for Caldwell. He just does not have a lot of trade value around the league.

Not when you are making $1.55M a year you don't! Plus he doesn't play special teams.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

It's too bad for Reche, he gave his all to our cause but wasn't good enough to further it. That's why from way back in February I was with the few that felt he was done as a Patriot. I wish Caldwell luck, he seems like one heck of a good guy to have on your team.

 

[Keegs]

Caldwell had a nice catch against the Chargers, but he should have scored on that play.. He was a nice number 3 reciver, but he was outmatched by the talent that was added...

EXACTLY! jeez, where the hell were you when i was arguing for my life against the Caldwell faction?

Once again I'm right about something and was treating like garbage until it actually happened.

Then after it becomes true, the little group cannot be found.

 

[frankiesfly]

I'm not suprised by this. I was saying Caldwell wasn't making the team this year, back in February. To everyone who talked crap to me You can all kiss my ass now.