Why Gilmore “over“ Butler

[IllegalContact]

Butler is a good corner who was placed in the right spot to make a huge play and made good on it

He's not a 13M per year corner just like Ryan is not a 10M per year corner

I think Gilmore is a better corner but I do think butler is up near the top as a #2

 

[PatsBoy12]

I never said that you didn't say it is the right business move. I am just responding to the "wrong" comment. There is just simply nothing wrong about it at all.

Not to keep pushing about what's a simple misunderstanding, something can be the right thing to do but still FEEL wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel bad that Butler, a player who has done everything right for the organization on and off the field, is in the position he's in today. I don't know him personally, but I can't imagine any he wouldn't want to continue with NE were it not for all of this ****.

It just sucks, especially and selfishly as a fan, because I'd love to see him in NE's defensive backfield for the next four years at least. Imagine a tandem of Gilmore and Butler. That'd give BB and Patricia the kind of flexibility that Revis and Cromartie have Wrecks. They had no business being in two straight AFCCG's otherwise. If NE didn't win at least two more SB's with that tandem and Tom Brady, it'd be a shame. But alas, we probably won't get to see what that might look like. Who knows?

 

[RI Patriots fan]

He needs to be on the 53.

No one needs to be on the Patriots except for Tom Brady and BB. Everyone else is expendable.

Just remember that we won a Super Bowl without Collins and Jones who people said we "needed" to have on our team to win. We also went 10-0 and won a Super Bowl without Gronk who people said that we "needed" to have on our team to win in the postseason.

Butler is expendable. Does that mean that he has no value? Of course not, he most certainly has some value. That being said, the Patriots don't pay for the past and they don't pay more than they have to pay using every bit of leverage afforded to them. That's one of the reasons they're always so successful.

The bottom line is that the Patriot's "formula" is working and I see no reason to even remotely question it given it's overwhelming and consistent success.

The Patriots will do what they need to do to make their team successful and if that means that Butler is a Patriot for one more day, one more season, or even the rest of his career it will be because he fits into the plans of the team at the price they set.

All hail the Patriots Way!

 

[50-yard-line]

Not to keep pushing about what's a simple misunderstanding, something can be the right thing to do but still FEEL wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel bad that Butler, a player who has done everything right for the organization on and off the field, is in the position he's in today. I don't know him personally, but I can't imagine any he wouldn't want to continue with NE were it not for all of this ****.

It just sucks, especially and selfishly as a fan, because I'd love to see him in NE's defensive backfield for the next four years at least. Imagine a tandem of Gilmore and Butler. That'd give BB and Patricia the kind of flexibility that Revis and Cromartie have Wrecks. They had no business being in two straight AFCCG's otherwise. If NE didn't win at least two more SB's with that tandem and Tom Brady, it'd be a shame. But alas, we probably won't get to see what that might look like. Who knows?

Every rookie contract in the NFL leads to this same situation at one point or another, and as they approach that last year, some will choose the money up front if they've been good enough that the team wants to extend them - getting guarantees in exchange for the "danger" year by extending at slightly below what a UFA would get - or they take the risk in that last year.

Every team has many players underpaid by comparison to the vets, particularly those on rookie contracts. Compare Trey Flowers' money against a veteran DE - any veteran DE.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Every rookie contract in the NFL leads to this same situation at one point or another, and as they approach that last year, some will choose the money up front if they've been good enough that the team wants to extend them - getting guarantees in exchange for the "danger" year by extending at slightly below what a UFA would get - or they take the risk in that last year.

Every team has many players underpaid by comparison to the vets, particularly those on rookie contracts. Compare Trey Flowers' money against a veteran DE - any veteran DE.

I understand that. But every one of the situations is still its own case. I'm speaking specifically on Butler's situation since he's the player we're taking about in this case. Don't understand how what I'm saying is being misunderstood. It is what it is and it still sucks. The two are not mutually exclusive things... like we have to pay taxes but it sucks.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No one needs to be on the Patriots except for Tom Brady and BB. Everyone else is expendable.

Just remember that we won a Super Bowl without Collins and Jones who people said we "needed" to have on our team to win. We also went 10-0 and won a Super Bowl without Gronk who people said that we "needed" to have on our team to win in the postseason.

Butler is expendable. Does that mean that he has no value? Of course not, he most certainly has some value. That being said, the Patriots don't pay for the past and they don't pay more than they have to pay using every bit of leverage afforded to them. That's one of the reasons they're always so successful.

The bottom line is that the Patriot's "formula" is working and I see no reason to even remotely question it given it's overwhelming and consistent success.

The Patriots will do what they need to do to make their team successful and if that means that Butler is a Patriot for one more day, one more season, or even the rest of his career it will be because he fits into the plans of the team at the price they set.

All hail the Patriots Way!

You missed the context of my post.

In order for Malcolm to be eligible for FA in 2018 he needs to be on the 53 man roster or a certain number of games. I think that number is 6. I also believe he accrues tenure even if he is IR'd.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Butler is a good corner who was placed in the right spot to make a huge play and made good on it

He's not a 13M per year corner just like Ryan is not a 10M per year corner

I think Gilmore is a better corner but I do think butler is up near the top as a #2

If I understand this correctly, you're de facto saying that there are 31+ corners allegedly better than Butler. I say BS. I don't agree with Miguel that Malcom is a Top 5 but he's most likely in the top 10.

Agree Gilmore is better.

 

[mosslost]

Not to keep pushing about what's a simple misunderstanding, something can be the right thing to do but still FEEL wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel bad that Butler, a player who has done everything right for the organization on and off the field, is in the position he's in today. I don't know him personally, but I can't imagine any he wouldn't want to continue with NE were it not for all of this ****.

It just sucks, especially and selfishly as a fan, because I'd love to see him in NE's defensive backfield for the next four years at least. Imagine a tandem of Gilmore and Butler. That'd give BB and Patricia the kind of flexibility that Revis and Cromartie have Wrecks. They had no business being in two straight AFCCG's otherwise. If NE didn't win at least two more SB's with that tandem and Tom Brady, it'd be a shame. But alas, we probably won't get to see what that might look like. Who knows?

>>a player who has done everything right for the organization on and off the field, is in the position he's in today

OK. But I think it is as simple as smart people just properly explaining the situation to him. The position he is in is not a bad position. It is what it is, he is a RFA on the Patriots about to get paid 4 million this year, and a lot more after next season when he reaches UFA.. provided he does not get injured which is true for every NFL player. The "position he is in" there is nothing "bad" about it at all. If anything he has been blessed amazingly with a Hollywood like story of success and luck and should work his ass off next year.

EDIT: I am actually pretty disappointed in his behavior right now.

 

[50-yard-line]

I understand that. But every one of the situations is still its own case. I'm speaking specifically on Butler's situation since he's the player we're taking about in this case. Don't understand how what I'm saying is being misunderstood. It is what it is and it still sucks. The two are not mutually exclusive things... like we have to pay taxes but it sucks.

Why does it suck? The guy can make 4 million $$$ guaranteed this year after only 3 years service in the NFL. He was an undrafted player.

Jimmy Garoppolo was drafted in the second round and is playing for 1.1m this year. If he was a UFA, he'd be getting 15m plus right now. Butler's making more than Mason, Thuney, Andrews, Flowers...AND he could up that significantly with the stroke of a pen.

It's all about perspective. Instead of looking backwards a little bit and being grateful for where he is, he (or his agent) seems to be looking around and deciding where he should be, and if BB is actually willing to let him walk, then that gulf created a grumbling that the Pats wouldn't tolerate.

It's a shame, really.

 

[brdmaverick]

PatsBoy12 , you sum up the situation very nicely.

Essentially it just boils down to a tough situation......

1.) Butler has every right to feel slighted.

2.) The team has every right to do what is best for the team even if it means slighting a player.

 

[patsinthesnow]

 

[PatsBoy12]

Why does it suck? The guy can make 4 million $$$ guaranteed this year after only 3 years service in the NFL. He was an undrafted player.

Jimmy Garoppolo was drafted in the second round and is playing for 1.1m this year. If he was a UFA, he'd be getting 15m plus right now. Butler's making more than Mason, Thuney, Andrews, Flowers...AND he could up that significantly with the stroke of a pen.

It's all about perspective. Instead of looking backwards a little bit and being grateful for where he is, he (or his agent) seems to be looking around and deciding where he should be, and if BB is actually willing to let him walk, then that gulf created a grumbling that the Pats wouldn't tolerate.

It's a shame, really.

So it doesn't sucks that we could be losing Butler? Maybe to you it doesn't, but I would like him on the team for a few more years.

 

[PatsBoy12]

PatsBoy12 , you sum up the situation very nicely.

Essentially it just boils down to a tough situation......

1.) Butler has every right to feel slighted.

2.) The team has every right to do what is best for the team even if it means slighting a player.

And those were really the only points I was trying to make. How did you see that but I'm stuck trying to explain it to others? I'm starting to feel confused myself.

I'll stop now that I realize my main points got through after all.

 

[50-yard-line]

So it doesn't sucks that we could be losing Butler? Maybe to you it doesn't, but I would like him on the team for a few more years.

The Pats only lose him if they want to.

 

[PatsBoy12]

The Pats only lose him if they want to.

And what gives you the idea they don't want to? Have you not been reading? The only reason he wasn't part of the Cooks trade is because he didn't sign the tender. But you know... I give up. You completely missed my original point and things are only getting more convoluted with each reply. I respect you nonetheless, 50. I'm bowing out. I guess it's just a difference of opinion here.

 

[patfanken]

.....and meanwhile the local and national mediots (with few exceptions) are continuing to spout the same BS over and over again like they can't think of a single additiional story line to talk about.

"Butler needs to be paid more". "Butler is pissed.....except those times he's not". Butler should not sign and hold out.....except he's quoted as saying that he won't do that.,,,but believe us, he's still pissed.

And my personal favorite implausable narrative that is being quoted as being a fact: "Butler was told no CB ws going to be paid 10MM/yr, and the the Pats signed Gilmore for more.".

Then to add insult to injuries the little pukes come here on the social media page and want you to click their stories about what THEY are telling us to believe, without adding a bit of insight that we haven't covered here days ago.

 

[BlueThunder]

This from overthecap site.

"The team can place one of three tenders on the player. The highest tender is the 1st round compensation tender, meaning if another team signs the player and the original team decides to not match it the new team will have to give the team a 1st round draft pick in 2014. If the team does not own their first round pick (such as the Bills) they are unable to sign the restricted free agent. The other tenders are a 2nd round tender, original draft round, and finally right of first refusal tender. The ROFR means you get no compensation if you decide to not match the offer sheet. Teams have five days to match the new offer sheet. During that time period the player will count on both teams’ salary cap.

The tender offer is a non-guaranteed one year contract amount based on the compensation level. In 2014 the tenders were $3.113 million for the 1st round tender, $2.187 million for the 2nd round tender, and $1.431 million for the original round and ROFR tenders. Those numbers will rise by a minimum of 5% and a maximum of 10% this season, with the number being based on the official salary cap limit. The RFA free agency period is shorter than that of the regular unrestricted free agent, ending this year on April 24. Once the April 24 deadline passes the player can only negotiate with the team that tendered them."

http://overthecap.com/explaining-nfl-free-agent-designations/

 

[50-yard-line]

And what gives you the idea they don't want to? Have you not been reading? The only reason he wasn't part of the Cooks trade is because he didn't sign the tender. But you know... I give up. You completely missed my original point and things are only getting more convoluted with each reply. I respect you nonetheless, 50. I'm bowing out. I guess it's just a difference of opinion here.

Look, from the beginning, BB has made it clear that he doesn't deal with troublemakers. If Butler, or his agent, decided to push the envelope, good riddance.

Yeah, I wish it was different. Wish it had been different with Jamie Collins, too, as he was one of my favorite players. But I'll take meaningful games in January over individual players.

Butler isn't gone yet.

 

[brdmaverick]

It's all about perspective. Instead of looking backwards a little bit and being grateful for where he is, he (or his agent) seems to be looking around and deciding where he should be, and if BB is actually willing to let him walk, then that gulf created a grumbling that the Pats wouldn't tolerate.

It's a shame, really.

It sounds like you're expecting Malcolm to be loyal to the Pats for giving him the opportunity when we know the Patriots do not show loyalty on their end. For the record I have no problem with their lack of loyalty as it's the right business move, but it would be someone critical if we expect players to have loyalty that is not returned.

Trust me, I totally get your point and I'm not dismissing it. I'm just saying that anyone (despite their path) would be frustrated if they are only being compensated half of what they should be.

 

[tasmlab]

I would think, intuitively, that Butler would be more valuable than Gilmore even if he's the lesser CB. He has 3 years experience in the system, knows the scheme and is a proven fit. Gilmore might be great here, but there's no history to back up that assumption. Maybe he ends up not getting it or not fitting in. Butler would seem like the better option just going on managing risk.

In BB I trust.