Why Gilmore “over“ Butler

[long distance]

“over“ in ref. to earlier debates Gilmore's money should be Butler's..
___

The moment I saw Gilmore's name connected to NE . I thought Talib, Revis.
As much as I love Butler's game I never once thought that.
So it was never about Butler to me . just the good old BB “trying to make team better“.

Here some thoughts from NFL scout in Reiss' article:
What makes Pats invest big in Stephon Gilmore compared to Malcolm Butler
____

quotes:

“Bill [Belichick] has proven over the last couple of years that if you can get a couple of guys who can play man, giving the interior of the defense more flexibility, they are happier,” Hatman said. “You cannot say it’s a surprise they are continuing to go after premium man corners, and Gilmore fits that bill. Those are harder to find in the league, so when Gilmore makes it to the market, they pounce."

This isn’t to say Butler doesn’t often play man coverage at a high level (e.g. vs. Steelers receiver Antonio Brown), but from a scouting perspective Gilmore has a “broader range of things he can do”, according to Hatman.
-
Butler, too, has his strengths. “He is a very competent corner in this league and will be compensated well when that time comes,” Hatman said. “But in terms of ‘can you take away part of the field on a consistent basis?’ or ‘can you always trust that matchup against all personnel and situations and sign off on it knowing it’s taken care of’?, that hasn’t proven to be the case. Those players are harder to find in the league.”
-
“If Malcolm all of a sudden feels marginalized, that he has his legs taken out from underneath him, they’ll replace him like everybody else and move on. But if he says ‘hey, they brought in another guy, he’ll help us lock down his guy, I’ll lock down mine, the pass rush will get there, and we’ll get back to the Super Bowl,’ then they’ll all be better for it and go from there. I don’t think the move to Gilmore is necessarily a death sentence to Butler.”

 

[PatsBoy12]

Disclaimer: I don't know Butler personally

The final paragraph is not what Butler is all about. That guy went from undrafted to stater in less than a full season (if you're thinking games played) precisely because he's extremely confident and thinks very highly of himself. That's not going to change because a writer suggests that would be the way to go. He absolutely feels marginalized and I believe he wants out. He is likely saying, "I worked my ass off for myself and this team, I saved a Super Bowl for this team, and homeboy is getting my money? Oh hell nah!"

It's hard for me to compeletly condemn him if that is truly his position. It may be the right business move by the team, but it still feels wrong. Any one of us would feel slighted in his position. Butler has done a lot for this team. Some fans feel he should simply sign the tender. It does represent a significant pay increase. But teams break the terms on contracts all the time, yet we want the players to abide by those terms strictly when it benefits the team. The players are risking everything on the gridiron.

On the flip side, the team is making the choice that makes sense and, had he gotten in line, one has to believe he'd be in position to make what he wants (or maybe just slightly less) with this team. This whole situation seems so avoidable. But you take a shrewd financial coach, a super confident player and a completely amateur agent and if all equals most likely losing a player who should have been a pillar on defense.

 

[Minitron]

Butler still has no leverage this season. Either he signs the tender and cashes in next season in FA or he holds out, doesn't play a snap this season and hurts his FA-value. Or the Pats just give him an extension and end this nonsense.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

But teams break the terms on contracts all the time

No, they don't. The contract that the player signed allows the team to cut the player without having to pay the rest of the money. Those are the terms, agreed to by both sides. The team is breaking NOTHING. And there is nothing stopping the player from being more conservative and accepting a lower salary to get a 100% guaranteed contract that'll pay out the full value even if cut.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Butler still has no leverage this season. Either he signs the tender and cashes in next season in FA or he holds out, doesn't play a snap this season and hurts his FA-value. Or the Pats just give him an extension and end this nonsense.

If he doesn't play a snap this season I think he's still an RFA next season. He'd need to show up by game 10 to get the accrued season he needs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

“over“ in ref. to earlier debates Gilmore's money should be Butler's..
___

The moment I saw Gilmore's name connected to NE . I thought Talib, Revis.
As much as I love Butler's game I never once thought that.
So it was never about Butler to me . just the good old BB “trying to make team better“.

Here some thoughts from NFL scout in Reiss' article:
What makes Pats invest big in Stephon Gilmore compared to Malcolm Butler
____

quotes:

“Bill [Belichick] has proven over the last couple of years that if you can get a couple of guys who can play man, giving the interior of the defense more flexibility, they are happier,” Hatman said. “You cannot say it’s a surprise they are continuing to go after premium man corners, and Gilmore fits that bill. Those are harder to find in the league, so when Gilmore makes it to the market, they pounce."

This isn’t to say Butler doesn’t often play man coverage at a high level (e.g. vs. Steelers receiver Antonio Brown), but from a scouting perspective Gilmore has a “broader range of things he can do”, according to Hatman.
-
Butler, too, has his strengths. “He is a very competent corner in this league and will be compensated well when that time comes,” Hatman said. “But in terms of ‘can you take away part of the field on a consistent basis?’ or ‘can you always trust that matchup against all personnel and situations and sign off on it knowing it’s taken care of’?, that hasn’t proven to be the case. Those players are harder to find in the league.”
-
“If Malcolm all of a sudden feels marginalized, that he has his legs taken out from underneath him, they’ll replace him like everybody else and move on. But if he says ‘hey, they brought in another guy, he’ll help us lock down his guy, I’ll lock down mine, the pass rush will get there, and we’ll get back to the Super Bowl,’ then they’ll all be better for it and go from there. I don’t think the move to Gilmore is necessarily a death sentence to Butler.”

I'm not going to pretend to be able to tell the difference between Gilmore's play and Malcolm's but if this piece is anywhere close to being accurate it provides a glimpse into BB's thought process re: evaluating Malcolm compared to Gilmore and other top-end CBs.

 

[Minitron]

If he doesn't play a snap this season I think he's still an RFA next season. He'd need to show up by game 10 to get the accrued season he needs.

Does he actually have to play or is he eligible for FA if BB decides to put him as an inactive for the rest of the season. That's how i meant it.

 

[BlueThunder]

He was a UFA that the Pats took a chance on.........He should be grateful, and maybe he is deep down, and it's his dumb agent talking. JMHO

I read somewhere he wants to be a Patriot for life

Good Luck Malcolm !!

Would love to see this get worked out and see Gilmore & Butler roaming the Patriot's DB....

 

[ivanvamp]

The reason is simple. Gilmore was a UFA. Butler is an RFA.

UFAs get a lot more money than RFAs. If Butler was a UFA right now, he'd be making huge dollars.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Does he actually have to play or is he eligible for FA if BB decides to put him as an inactive for the rest of the season. That's how i meant it.

He needs to be on the 53.

 

[Froob]

He needs to be on the 53.

Hm wonder what happens if he ended up on IR.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Hm wonder what happens if he ended up on IR.

It would seem reasonable to say that he would still accrue a season but I am not 100% sure.

Same goes for the $3.91m. I do not know if there are any injury protection provisions either

 

[PP2]

The reason is simple. Gilmore was a UFA. Butler is an RFA.

UFAs get a lot more money than RFAs. If Butler was a UFA right now, he'd be making huge dollars.

That's how I see it too. Pretty sure BB doesn't see it as a Gilmore vs. Butler thing. It's Rowe's job that's in danger right now.

Butler was made an offer that was in line with an RFA offer; Gilmore was made an offer typical of a UFA.

I think Butler will be with us for at least two years, on matched RFA tender then franchised. In the end, he would make just as much as he would have if he had signed that earlier offer at $6-7m AAV.

 

[patfanken]

That's the thing. There IS no "over" here. When are people going to finally GET this. There WAS no choice here. It was never an either or thing. It was just not Butler's time to get UFA paid, because he ISN'T one.

The best Pats team for THIS season will be the one that has BOTH Butler and Gilmore on the field at the same time. Gilmore is an upgrade over Ryan, and Butler, we hope, will continue to develop and expand his game.

IMHO, this is really a topic that should be over. It is what it is, unless or until Butler gets an offer sheet. It's that simple. That's the system in the NFL that everyone agreed to back in 2011. Unless you are a first round pick, the team that drafts you get to sign you to a 4 year contract at a specific rate. According to those same rules, the player gets a LIMITED free agency after 3 years, where a team can give him a significant raise to lock him into that 3rd year, but NOT top money.

Every single league has some sytem that locks a player up for a certain number of years before they reach true FA, why is it that we ONLY get these stories in football, when a player like Butler over performs their contracts in his early years.

Why is there no drama about David Andrews and Shaq Mason. Both of those guys have out performed their rookie contracts. Both have started more games in their first 2 years than Butler did. Yet one guy will make $600,000 this season, and the other $700,000, and I haven't heard a single suggestion that they are "on the way out", or are complaining about THEIR situations . (and btw, we still don't really know if Butler is ACTUALLY complaining about his situation. He doesn't have to, I guess, because the mediots are doing it for him.).

And in the end, after my little rant, the Pats lost a starting CB in FA and replaced him with someone we hope will be better, That's IT. I don't remember all this angst last season when Ryan was entering his RFA season. We just assumed the Pats would have to deal with it at the end of the season....and moved on. Same thing this season for Butler.

BTW- mini-rant. Curran had a great take on Butler's situation on his Quick Slants show, EXCEPT for this part. He made it seem like the Pats' lack of sentimentality in these situations was a factor, implying that "that they are cheap" When the fact is that NO team pays when they don't have to. The only time players get more in their 3rd year, is when they are willing to take LESS later on. Evidently Butler's agent wouldn't do it. So TC, it isn't JUST the Pats who are tough on this, but EVERY TEAM. Please don't imply that it's just them.

 

[patfanken]

It would seem reasonable to say that he would still accrue a season but I am not 100% sure.

Same goes for the $3.91m. I do not know if there are any injury protection provisions either

I think RFA tags are like franchise tags, once he signs it, it is fully guaranteed.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think RFA tags are like franchise tags, once he signs it, it is fully guaranteed.

I tend to agree. Seems fair but who knows with this league.

 

[JMC00]

He made it seem like the Pats' lack of sentimentality in these situations was a factor, implying that "that they are cheap"

Ya not sure how Curran can say this when they just gave Gilmore the money they did.

 

[mosslost]

Disclaimer: I don't know Butler personally

The final paragraph is not what Butler is all about. That guy went from undrafted to stater in less than a full season (if you're thinking games played) precisely because he's extremely confident and thinks very highly of himself. That's not going to change because a writer suggests that would be the way to go. He absolutely feels marginalized and I believe he wants out. He is likely saying, "I worked my ass off for myself and this team, I saved a Super Bowl for this team, and homeboy is getting my money? Oh hell nah!"

It's hard for me to compeletly condemn him if that is truly his position. It may be the right business move by the team, but it still feels wrong. Any one of us would feel slighted in his position. Butler has done a lot for this team. Some fans feel he should simply sign the tender. It does represent a significant pay increase. But teams break the terms on contracts all the time, yet we want the players to abide by those terms strictly when it benefits the team. The players are risking everything on the gridiron.

On the flip side, the team is making the choice that makes sense and, had he gotten in line, one has to believe he'd be in position to make what he wants (or maybe just slightly less) with this team. This whole situation seems so avoidable. But you take a shrewd financial coach, a super confident player and a completely amateur agent and if all equals most likely losing a player who should have been a pillar on defense.

The reason it is not "wrong" is because letting a RFA blow up what you do, does just that.. it blows up what you do that seems to work so dam well.

I have read that some other teams just go ahead and take care of their own in a situation like this. Well those teams don't win an average of roughly 13 games every single yearr and go to 6 straight AFCCG and 11 in 15 years and 7 SBs. They simply cannot give Malcolm what he wants, simply because he tantrums hard enough!

 

[PatsBoy12]

The reason it is not "wrong" is because letting a RFA blow up what you do, does just that.. it blows up what you do that seems to work so dam well.

I have read that some other teams just go ahead and take care of their own in a situation like this. Well those teams don't win an average of roughly 13 games every single yearr and go to 6 straight AFCCG and 11 in 15 years and 7 SBs. They simply cannot give Malcolm what he wants, simply because he tantrums hard enough!

I clearly stated twice that what the Patriots are doing is the right business move. What feels wrong is the fact that Butler should be getting paid more... way more than even the tender. But this is the contract he unfortunately signed.

 

[mosslost]

I clearly stated twice that what the Patriots are doing is the right business move. What feels wrong is the fact that Butler should be getting paid more... way more than even the tender. But this is the contract he unfortunately signed.

I never said that you didn't say it is the right business move. I am just responding to the "wrong" comment. There is just simply nothing wrong about it at all.