Adam Schefter: Patriots want minimum of 1st and 4th round picks for QB Jimmy Garoppolo

[deroc5050]

I don't want to get too personal as I have been a bit snippy lately from lack of sleep,

At the end of the day, Jimmy not get traded. He might get traded for a 1st and a 4th. He might get traded for a high 1st (whatever that is). He might get traded for a 2nd and a 3rd. Nobody knows for sure. But all of those scenarios are possible, even if they're not probable.

The only reason we trade him is because the timeline of Brady's career is going to go beyond Jimmy's contract.

With that said whats your best guess? What do you think trading Jimmy G this off season will net the Patriots in draft picks?

 

[supafly]

I still think there's a chance he stays next year and is tagged/traded next spring, but the truth is that none of us know for sure and there are many variables that will play into the decision.

It's certainly a good "problem" to have, and no matter how it plays out it will remain a hot topic on our forum. Really no need to get into pissing matches about it, though.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

The only reason we trade him is because the timeline of Brady's career is going to go beyond Jimmy's contract.

With that said whats your best guess? What do you think trading Jimmy G this off season will net the Patriots in draft picks?

I agree. The timing isn't great, but last year's Super Bowl made me think that even a non-prime Brady would keep us in contention with a solid run game/D and his mental edge.

As far as best guess, I got nothing right now, it's impossible to predict because of several factors.

I think there's a real possibility that he's worth more to us than to anyone else, and we won't trade him before the draft. If a team offered us a 3rd, what's the point if we think we can get a comp pick 3rd for him later on? You're better off keeping him on the roster and having him as security, then getting that same pick later on.

It really depends on the rest of the market. People look at transactions individually, but they are totally dependent on what happens around it. For example, imagine if Dallas wants a 2nd or 3rd for Romo. I think most teams say no thanks. But if they make him available for a 5th/6th, then someone would probably do that instead of giving up a 1st for Jimmy.

Then there's the Josh factor. If he goes to another team, he'll have some interest for sure. When Josh went to Denver, he tried to get Cassel, but the Chiefs had already struck a deal. If he goes somewhere without a stable QB, he will make an offer.

Bradford really isn't worth a 1st and a 4th in a vacuum, but injury + desperation drove that price up. And I could see BB doing similar if he doesn't get a good deal, just holding onto him until after the draft and potentially getting an unprotected 1st round pick from a team, giving us someone to root against.

But I don't think we trade him for the sake of trading him. We will either get a good offer, or we will keep him.

 

[IllegalContact]

You are getting lost in minuscia. Who cares? the point is that there are teams that NEED improved QB play if they are going to win. JG is the BEST potential chance for a GM/HC to get that long term fix among all the potential FA's and daft QB picks. That doesn't mean he's sure thing, but he IS the best shot you will have this off season. Maybe next year there will be better optioins. But maybe you won't get till next year. But for THIS off season JG's is the best looking girl at the prom, and thus costs the most to date.

So, IC, I really don't care about Carson Wentz, he was just a metaphor

Carson Wentz is irrelevant.....you make my point for me.....JG is by far the best possibility for any team be it via free agency or the draft. Which makes him worth more than any QB that is going to be drafted .... which makes him worth more than any pick used to draft a QB.....getting anything less in return is poor value for the pats......especially in the short term.

honestly, I wouldn't trade him for anything less than the 'ridiculous'

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

honestly, I wouldn't trade him for anything less than the 'ridiculous'

To quote @TB12TheGoat, "If a team offers anything less than a high first and a 3rd I would tell them to suck my **** and hang up"

 

[deroc5050]

I agree. The timing isn't great, but last year's Super Bowl made me think that even a non-prime Brady would keep us in contention with a solid run game/D and his mental edge.

As far as best guess, I got nothing right now, it's impossible to predict because of several factors.

I think there's a real possibility that he's worth more to us than to anyone else, and we won't trade him before the draft. If a team offered us a 3rd, what's the point if we think we can get a comp pick 3rd for him later on? You're better off keeping him on the roster and having him as security, then getting that same pick later on.

It really depends on the rest of the market. People look at transactions individually, but they are totally dependent on what happens around it. For example, imagine if Dallas wants a 2nd or 3rd for Romo. I think most teams say no thanks. But if they make him available for a 5th/6th, then someone would probably do that instead of giving up a 1st for Jimmy.

Then there's the Josh factor. If he goes to another team, he'll have some interest for sure. When Josh went to Denver, he tried to get Cassel, but the Chiefs had already struck a deal. If he goes somewhere without a stable QB, he will make an offer.

Bradford really isn't worth a 1st and a 4th in a vacuum, but injury + desperation drove that price up. And I could see BB doing similar if he doesn't get a good deal, just holding onto him until after the draft and potentially getting an unprotected 1st round pick from a team, giving us someone to root against.

But I don't think we trade him for the sake of trading him. We will either get a good offer, or we will keep him.

A 3rd lol? We used a 2nd round pick on Jimmy. A 3rd round pick for someone that has at least shown the ability to play QB at the NFL level and who was highly regarded in the draft.. No the Patriots wouldn't accept a 3rd. Better off just keeping him for insurance.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

A 3rd lol? We used a 2nd round pick on Jimmy. A 3rd round pick for someone that has at least shown the ability to play QB at the NFL level and who was highly regarded in the draft.. No the Patriots wouldn't accept a 3rd. Better off just keeping him for insurance.

Agreed. I'm saying we don't NEED to trade him. So a team that would lowball won't work. It's not like when we wanted to trade Collins, so we took the best deal we could get. We will only trade him if we get what he is worth, which is why I think we may end up keeping him.

Bear in mind where a guy is drafted is irrelevant to the type of pick you can get for him. We could never get anything close to a 2nd for Dobson, and nobody would give a 1st for Easley.

 

[deroc5050]

Agreed. I'm saying we don't NEED to trade him. So a team that would lowball won't work. It's not like when we wanted to trade Collins, so we took the best deal we could get. We will only trade him if we get what he is worth, which is why I think we may end up keeping him.

Bear in mind where a guy is drafted is irrelevant to the type of pick you can get for him. We could never get anything close to a 2nd for Dobson, and nobody would give a 1st for Easley.

oh absolutely, draft position in no way is the be all end all its just a fact. But its not like Jimmy was UDFA or a 7th round pick. Because if that was the case we would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick at this point. But because of several factors I think he is worth a 1st and more.

 

[heavyde050]

Carson Wentz is irrelevant.....you make my point for me.....JG is by far the best possibility for any team be it via free agency or the draft. Which makes him worth more than any QB that is going to be drafted .... which makes him worth more than any pick used to draft a QB.....getting anything less in return is poor value for the pats......especially in the short term.

honestly, I wouldn't trade him for anything less than the 'ridiculous'

If the pats can get a mid first + third round and/or multiple early second round picks across multiple years, the Pats will probably trade him.
How is trading Jimmy poor value in the short term? If Brady is healthy in 2017 and 2018, what value does Jimmy have? He probably isn't going to play and I have perfect confidence in Jacoby coming in to hand off 4 times at the end of a blow out.
Is Jimmy's short term value insurance in case Brady gets hurt?
If Brady plays like he did in 2016, Jimmy will not win the starting QB job from him.

 

[groundgame]

I'd trade Brissette for a 1st or 2nd for 2017. Not worth trading Garrapolo (see Alex Smith) for a 1 & 4th. If the Roster calculus allows, I'd go with a Brady, Jimmy and Jacoby again for 2017. The Insurance Policy ( the luxury of 2 quality back-ups) versus Emergency QB fill-ins, not worth the potential Draft pick returns.

 

[deroc5050]

I'd trade Brissette for a 1st or 2nd for 2017. Not worth trading Garrapolo (see Alex Smith) for a 1 & 4th. If the Roster calculus allows, I'd go with a Brady, Jimmy and Jacoby again for 2017. The Insurance Policy ( the luxury of 2 quality back-ups) versus Emergency QB fill-ins, not worth the potential Draft pick returns.

I am not ready to call Jacoby a good back up yet. He has a long way to go if he ever gets there.

 

[aluminum seats]

I'd trade Brissette for a 1st or 2nd for 2017

Oy

 

[supafly]

Oy

I second that thought.

 

[supafly]

I'd trade Brissette for a 1st or 2nd for 2017. Not worth trading Garrapolo (see Alex Smith) for a 1 & 4th. If the Roster calculus allows, I'd go with a Brady, Jimmy and Jacoby again for 2017. The Insurance Policy ( the luxury of 2 quality back-ups) versus Emergency QB fill-ins, not worth the potential Draft pick returns.

I can't say that I'd agree with your idea of potential compensation for Brissett, but you make a fine point that having a solid backup QB may appeal to Bill Belichick more than moving him. That's pretty much why I'm leaning towards the idea of a tag and trade in 2018. The Pats would almost certainly have the available cap space to carry that salary for a couple/few weeks, should they need to. While I agree with those who say that he'll never fetch a higher draft pick than right now, that's certainly not written in stone.

 

[Danger Zone]

Shhhhh....

Three firsts, a second, and Larry Fitzgerald. You can even throw in Adam Seward if you want.

People like to make fun of the extremes a small [vocal] percentage of Patsfans puts forth and admittedly some of the ones that got a little traction were quite pie in the sky.

That said, what surprises me about the NFL is that more trades don't involve more conditional picks/variables based on future performances.

For example, this is something I as a GM would be comfortable with.

1st for Garappolo.

+ 2nd or 3rd year picks based on his performance (throw x touchdowns, start x games, playoff starts etc).

Say: 3rd round pick in 2nd year for 20 TDs or a 2nd for 25 or a 1st for 30+.

I might even ask for conditional picks in the third year as well, just with clear franchise qb benchmarks.

Anyway you don't have to get stuck on the specifics here just understand where I'm coming from.

But clearly I'm not an NFL GM.

 

[Danger Zone]

Oy

Vey!

 

[supafly]

People like to make fun of the extremes a small [vocal] percentage of Patsfans puts forth and admittedly some of the ones that got a little traction were quite pie in the sky.

That said, what surprises me about the NFL is that more trades don't involve more conditional picks/variables based on future performances.

For example, this is something I as a GM would be comfortable with.

1st for Garappolo.

+ 2nd or 3rd year picks based on his performance (throw x touchdowns, start x games, playoff starts etc).

Say: 3rd round pick in 2nd year for 20 TDs or a 2nd for 25 or a 1st for 30+.

You don't have to get stuck on the specifics here just understand where I'm coming from.

But clearly I'm not an NFL GM.

Yes, you've made this suggestion in the past and personally, I think it's a fine idea. I'm guessing the team trading the player wouldn't be as hot about it due to the uncertainty of the situation. I think we tend to see conditional trades with a lot of lesser known or lower round players since the trading team doesn't have nearly as much leverage to dictate terms.

I don't know. I'm just spitballing. I may be way off.

 

[Danger Zone]

Yes, you've made this suggestion in the past and personally, I think it's a fine idea.

I'm quite sure it's just a matter of exposure. Say it often enough and I'm sure the message will get out to Belichick...

 

[supafly]

I'm quite sure it's just a matter of exposure. Say it often enough and I'm sure the message will get out to Belichick...

Shoot, if I see Belichick and your name comes up, I'm telling him about your draft bust/hit numbers first. Your analysis and shared sources have been helpful to many.

 

[aluminum seats]

People like to make fun of the extremes a small [vocal] percentage of Patsfans puts forth and admittedly some of the ones that got a little traction were quite pie in the sky.

That said, what surprises me about the NFL is that more trades don't involve more conditional picks/variables based on future performances.

For example, this is something I as a GM would be comfortable with.

1st for Garappolo.

+ 2nd or 3rd year picks based on his performance (throw x touchdowns, start x games, playoff starts etc).

Say: 3rd round pick in 2nd year for 20 TDs or a 2nd for 25 or a 1st for 30+.

I might even ask for conditional picks in the third year as well, just with clear franchise qb benchmarks.

Anyway you don't have to get stuck on the specifics here just understand where I'm coming from.

But clearly I'm not an NFL GM.

That's interesting. Would be a good topic for Reiss or someone to interview GMs and write about.