Michael Lombardi coming to New England?

[AzPatsFan]

You know when Browns fans are celebrating a guy being dumped it's hard to get excited about him coming to your team...

Even today the Cleveland fans think Bill Belichick is a poor Coach. Shows you what they know...l

 

[Galeb]

So, why does everyone automaticaly use Tavon Wilson and his 5 INT's (one a pick-6 for a TD against the Ravens this year) in 2 years as the whipping boy?

Because to many, being "right" is more important than the truth.

 

[captain stone]

How many 3rd round picks work out?

None that shouldn't even have been under consideration until at least the bottom
of the 5th round.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because to many, being "right" is more important than the truth.

Given that Wilson languished on the bench this season, taking only 18 snaps out of a possible 1156 according to Reiss*, I'm not sure what "truth" you think you're talking about. Wilson's been a complete bust as a safety to this point, when he was taken higher than Bequette and was an obvious reach.



That's the truth.





*Snaps: Defensive breakdown for 2013 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[shmessy]

Because Bequette really sucking doesn't make Wilson suck any less.

If you think the level of "suckage" is the SAME between a 2nd rounder who, in 2 seasons, has 5 INT's, 44 tackles, 7 pass defs, and a 3rd rounder who has the same NFL career stat line as you and me, then we will have to just agree to disagree.

 

[shmessy]

Given that Wilson languished on the bench this season, taking only 18 snaps out of a possible 1156 according to Reiss*, I'm not sure what "truth" you think you're talking about. Wilson's been a complete bust as a safety to this point, when he was taken higher than Bequette and was an obvious reach.



That's the truth.





*Snaps: Defensive breakdown for 2013 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

You fail to understand what is being discussed.

No one is saying Tavon Wilson has been deserving of being a second round pick. Everyone agrees he has been a hugely unsuccessful second rounder. The discussion is why everyone points at Wilson as the example of bad drafting when there is (yes, a lower picked 3rd rounder) who may as well have been selling cars on Route 1 the past two years.

It's like seeing a picture of Martha Stewart and Bernie Madoff and commenting "Wow, that Martha Stewart, now THERE was a con artist!"

 

[Deus Irae]

If you think the level of "suckage" is the SAME between a 2nd rounder who, in 2 seasons, has 5 INT's, 44 tackles, 7 pass defs, and a 3rd rounder who has the same NFL career stat line as you and me, then we will have to just agree to disagree.

The 3rd round pick played 0 plays
The 2nd round pick played 18 plays



You're right. The level of suckage is not the same. The blown 2nd is much worse than the blown 3rd.

 

[Deus Irae]

You fail to understand what is being discussed.

No one is saying Tavon Wilson has been deserving of being a second round pick. Everyone agrees he has been a hugely unsuccessful second rounder. The discussion is why everyone points at Wilson as the example of bad drafting when there is (yes, a lower picked 3rd rounder) who may as well have been selling cars on Route 1 the past two years.

It's like seeing a picture of Martha Stewart and Bernie Madoff and commenting "Wow, that Martha Stewart, now THERE was a con artist!"

I understand what's being discussed, but thanks.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Given that Wilson languished on the bench this season, taking only 18 snaps out of a possible 1156 according to Reiss*, I'm not sure what "truth" you think you're talking about. Wilson's been a complete bust as a safety to this point, when he was taken higher than Bequette and was an obvious reach.



That's the truth.





*Snaps: Defensive breakdown for 2013 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

They've both been major busts to date, I don't think anyone's disputing that. It just comes down to weighing the fact that Tavon was taken in the second round versus Bequette in the third, against the fact that while Tavon's been bad, at least he's contributed on ST and made an occasional play, whereas Bequette can't even make the active roster at a position of need.

In my book, that makes Bequette an even bigger bust.

 

[ATippett56]

They've both been major busts to date, I don't think anyone's disputing that. It just comes down to weighing the fact that Tavon was taken in the second round versus Bequette in the third, against the fact that while Tavon's been bad, at least he's contributed on ST and made an occasional play, whereas Bequette can't even make the active roster at a position of need.

In my book, that makes Bequette an even bigger bust.

Both are major busts (48th & 90th overall selections in the 2012 NFL Draft) at this point in their careers. Neither defensive player is likely to vault the New England Patriots defense to elite status.

 

[Deus Irae]

They've both been major busts to date, I don't think anyone's disputing that. It just comes down to weighing the fact that Tavon was taken in the second round versus Bequette in the third, against the fact that while Tavon's been bad, at least he's contributed on ST and made an occasional play, whereas Bequette can't even make the active roster at a position of need.

In my book, that makes Bequette an even bigger bust.

Wilson was a 3 round reach at a position that was known to be crap heading into the draft when much better options at positions of need that were known to have some promise in the draft were available.

Some Patriots needs, 2012:

DL
WR
LB

Picks at those positions following Wilson:

DL - Kendall Reyes, Jerel Worthy (suffered knee injury)
LB - Zach Brown, Lavonte David, Demario Davis
WR - Reuben Randle, Devier Posey, T.J. Graham, Mohamed Sanu, T.Y. Hilton


So, a quick look at the group above shows that picking chalk was likely to bring back a worthwhile player, instead of a stiff who played 18 snaps on defense. Wilson is the perfect poster boy for the suckage. Bequette is the perfect poster boy for someone who's got incriminating photos of the coach, but at least he was a later round bonus shot at an area that had some talent in that draft, and he was a double dip following C. Jones rather than being the only egg in the basket the way Wilson was.


To put it another way, Tavon Wilson is Jermaine Cunningham, while Bequette is just Brandon Tate.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I understand what's being discussed. Your ridiculous claim that I don't is a great example of why I always find your comments amusing. Their level of inaccuracy just for the sake of making some kind of post is always worth a laugh.


It's like you just can't keep your inner troll under wraps.

DI,

Tavon may not have met expectations, but every Safety taken after him in that draft has been just as big or bigger bust, Some times you simply have to make the best of a bad deal, if the need is big enough.

Back then Chung was failing, and we had no FS either. The problem was alleviated by moving a probowl corner to FS as an experiment that turned out to work. CB to S rarely work out, as you know. BB chose to go with undersized FS Gregory at SS, largely because the secondary was full of rooks and kids. Some adult pro had to tell them where to lineup; and BB needed and chose Gregory to do that.

 

[Deus Irae]

DI,

Tavon may not have met expectations, but every Safety taken after him in that draft has been just as big or bigger bust, Some times you simply have to make the best of a bad deal, if the need is big enough.

You're helping make my point. The safety group sucked that year. Wilson should not have been taken in the 2nd round. Other positions of need had players that could have helped.


It doesn't matter how big your need is. You don't help your team if you draft a player who can't play.

 

[AzPatsFan]

You're helping make my point. The safety group sucked that year. Wilson should not have been taken in the 2nd round. Other positions of need had players that could have helped.


It doesn't matter how big your need is. You don't help your team if you draft a player who can't play.

I certainly agree, and so would Belichick. He has been quoted to that effect.

The operative words in my post were..." if the need was big enough".

Look at the extraordinary lengths BB went to to alleviate both his desperate FS & SS Safeties problems. Desperate problems lead to desperate measures.

1 He drafted Tavon
2) He converted a Probowl CB to S.
3) He imported an Over the Hill Adrian Wilson hoping to eke out 1 more year.
4) He drafted Jamie Collins with his top pick

 

[ATippett56]

I certainly agree, and so would Belichick. He has been quoted to that effect.

The operative words in my post were..." if the need was big enough".

Look at the extraordinary lengths BB went to to alleviate both his desperate FS & SS Safeties problems. Desperate problems lead to desperate measures.

1 He drafted Tavon
2) He converted a Probowl CB to S.
3) He imported an Over the Hill Adrian Wilson hoping to eke out 1 more year.
4) He drafted Jamie Collins with his top pick

Jamie Collins is a linebacker not a safety.

Bill Belichick has yet to achieve a long term solution to the strong safety position, especially thru the NFL Draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

I certainly agree, and so would Belichick. He has been quoted to that effect.

The operative words in my post were..." if the need was big enough".

Look at the extraordinary lengths BB went to to alleviate both his desperate FS & SS Safeties problems. Desperate problems lead to desperate measures.

1 He drafted Tavon
2) He converted a Probowl CB to S.
3) He imported an Over the Hill Adrian Wilson hoping to eke out 1 more year.
4) He drafted Jamie Collins with his top pick

The so-called desperate problems were of his own making and were avoidable. I'd love to know whether Wilson was a scout choice or another case of him overruling his scouts. If a bunch of posters on a website could see the problem, surely BB could have done the same.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, just by going chalk and staying defense in 2012* and then 2013, this team could be looking at:

Nink
Kelly
Wilfork
Jones

Hightower
Mayo
Zach Brown/Lavonte David/Damario Davis (Having Spikes on the roster would mean that Lavonte David would probably have been the best option in 2012, as a smaller, cover LB, but any of the 3 would have been an upgrade over the Wilson decision)

Dennard
Arrington
McCourty
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger

heading into FA.


* Taking the LB would have been a double dip, going along with Hightower, and would have basically completed the LB corps in one swoop. Going chalk and staying offense instead of double dipping at LB would have meant they could spent the first two 2013 picks on defense, meaning they could have had, for example, Elam and Collins on the defense, and, say, Randle or Hilton (Depending on which WR role BB chose to fill) on the offense instead of Dobson.

 

[Tunescribe]

Here's a good article from Price on what Lombardi brings to the table:

It Is What It Is » Four thoughts on potential reunion between Bill Belichick and Mike Lombardi

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Nice, now bring Alex Mack "back" to New England

 

[edboc]

I guess we'll have to see what his role and responsibilities are. I would think BB and Caserio will have have more say on the draft and player personnel, and Lombardi is more of a consultant or dealing with contract negotiations.

Why is Mike Lombardi and his questionable NFL track record being brought in to the Patriots front office?

 

[Rob0729]

Jamie Collins is a linebacker not a safety.

Bill Belichick has yet to achieve a long term solution to the strong safety position, especially thru the NFL Draft.

And about 25-28 other teams have failed to achieve a long term solution at strong safety especially through the draft. Strong safety is a position that is in short supply in the NFL. Hell, the safety position itself is an area where most teams are lacking in the NFL.

This speaks more to the position and the rules in the NFL that makes it so hard to find a good strong safety than the Pats' drafting. You can count the good strong safeties in this league on one or two hands.

No doubt that Pats have made some bad personnel decisions especially in the draft, but getting good long term solutions at safety is a problem most teams in the league have had.