Welker and Woodhead - Replaced

[mgteich]

The replacement of Welker and Woodhead was the highest concern as the season started. It turned out that Edelman and Vereen did fine jobs as replacements.

 

[Ian]

The replacement of Welker and Woodhead was the highest concern as the season started. It turned out that Edelman and Vereen did fine jobs as replacements.

Have to agree there. Biggest challenge now is trying to keep Edelman in the fold. That will likely be the biggest story of the offseason because while you can try and duplicate his production, you can't duplicate his heart. And that IMO is what ultimately made him such a big part of this offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

The replacement of Welker and Woodhead was the highest concern as the season started. It turned out that Edelman and Vereen did fine jobs as replacements.

Edelman was not Welker's replacement, and I'm not sure why people can't just allow that myth to die. Edelman was Edelman's replacement. In fact, it's more accurate to say that Edelman was Hernandez' replacement than it is to say that he was Welker's replacement, given the routes run.

 

[mayoclinic]

The replacement of Welker and Woodhead was the highest concern as the season started. It turned out that Edelman and Vereen did fine jobs as replacements.

If you look at it as replacing a player's productivity rather than replacing the player, one can argue that we upgraded Welker's role with Edelman and Amendola:

Recreate Through the Aggregate, Don't Replace | The Sideline View

 

[mgteich]

I am NOT re-living the decisions of last year. I am only pointing out the results. As another poster indicates, I think that Edelman and Amendola produced well in the roles of Welker and Edelman last year.

In the end, we needed to replace the production of Welker. We did so through increased production from Edelman and from the addition of Amendola. These two were our top two receivers in 2013.

And we are at a decision point yet again. Edelman is a free agent. Will we keep him? If not, how will we replace HIS production.

Edelman was not Welker's replacement, and I'm not sure why people can't just allow that myth to die. Edelman was Edelman's replacement. In fact, it's more accurate to say that Edelman was Hernandez' replacement than it is to say that he was Welker's replacement, given the routes run.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am NOT re-living the decisions of last year. I am only pointing out the results. As another poster indicates, I think that Edelman and Amendola produced well in the roles of Welker and Edelman last year.

But of course that's what you're doing. You are actively re-living the decisions of last year by bringing in the comparisons.

In the end, we needed to replace the production of Welker. We did so through increased production from Edelman and from the addition of Amendola. These two were our top two receivers in 2013.

And we are at a decision point yet again. Edelman is a free agent. Will we keep him? If not, how will we replace HIS production.

No, and again, this is not correct. They needed to replace the production of Gronk, Hernandez and Welker, along with Lloyd, Branch and Vereen. They failed to do so, with fewer catches and significantly fewer yards being the results. What you're doing is ignoring all the players who were being replaced except one, which isn't accurate and results in people not grasping just how much was lost from 2012 to 2013. There is no 1:1 replacement, beyond Amendola-Welker, and that's imperfect because of all the games Amendola missed.

2013 had 13 fewer pass attempts than 2012, with 22 fewer completions. Now, that doesn't seem like much, but here's the kicker: 501 fewer yards. The focus on Edelman's numbers in comparison to Welker's numbers is not only an invalid comparison, it's fool's gold.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/ne/year/2012

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/ne/new-england-patriots

 

[Rob0729]

Edelman replaced Welker, but Vereen didn't replace Woodhead.

Edelman became the go to WR and made most of the plays that Welker would have. I think he did that role better than Welker would have this year.

Vereen missed half the season. And he was pretty different than Woodhead in a lot of ways. I think they missed Woodhead's play delayed draws and direct snaps that fooled defenses a lot.

I would argue the Pats missed Woodhead more this season than Welker. If Vereen played the entire season, I may think otherwise.

What this team missed more than anything was a receiving TE other than the six games Gronk played in and a consistent outside threat. The later has been missing for a while now. Lloyd was decent at it in 2012 and Dobson looked to be getting good at it before he was injured.

 

[Brady6]

Have to agree there. Biggest challenge now is trying to keep Edelman in the fold. That will likely be the biggest story of the offseason because while you can try and duplicate his production, you can't duplicate his heart. And that IMO is what ultimately made him such a big part of this offense.

For what it is worth and as I highlighted in the Amendola thread in hindsight the writing was always on the wall in for Edelman to have this type of season; in 2009 there were 4 games Edelman replaced Welker due to injury; in those 4 games he had 27 receptions for 265 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns, which projects over 16 games to 108 receptions, 1060 receiving yards and 8 touchdowns. Take a look at this season and it is basically that projection.

• 9/20/09 – 8 receptions, 98 receiving yards
• 9/27/09 – 3 reception, 20 receiving yards
• 1/3/2010 – 10 receptions, 103 receiving yards
• 1/10/2010 – 6 receptions, 44 receiving yards, 2 touchdowns

Welker did not miss a game 2010-2012 and we also added the following receiving options to this team either through trade, draft or free agency:

• Rob Gronkowski
• Aaron Hernandez
• Taylor Price
• Deion Branch
• Chad Johnson
• Danny Woodhead
• Brandon Tate (drafted in 2009 but spent most of the season on injured reserve)
• Brandon Lloyd
• Shane Vereen
• Daniel Fells
• Greg Salas
• Donte Stallworth
• Jabar Gaffney

People do forget he was a record setting punt return and played solid cornerback (in 2010 during our SB run) for us during the years that he was out of the mix as a WR.

My only disagreement would be that Woodhead had 1 drop in 3 season here and Vereen had 7 this year alone, Vereen replaced the production of Woodhead but he did not replace making those key receptions for a first down on 3 and short or something like that, hopefully with the removal of the soft cast and an offseason workout program he can improve on drop number.

 

[Rob0729]

For what it is worth and as I highlighted in the Amendola thread in hindsight the writing was always on the wall in for Edelman to have this type of season; in 2009 there were 4 games Edelman replaced Welker due to injury; in those 4 games he had 27 receptions for 265 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns, which projects over 16 games to 108 receptions, 1060 receiving yards and 8 touchdowns. Take a look at this season and it is basically that projection.

• 9/20/09 – 8 receptions, 98 receiving yards
• 9/27/09 – 3 reception, 20 receiving yards
• 1/3/2010 – 10 receptions, 103 receiving yards
• 1/10/2010 – 6 receptions, 44 receiving yards, 2 touchdowns

Welker did not miss a game 2010-2012 and we also added the following receiving options to this team either through trade, draft or free agency:

• Rob Gronkowski
• Aaron Hernandez
• Taylor Price
• Deion Branch
• Chad Johnson
• Danny Woodhead
• Brandon Tate (drafted in 2009 but spent most of the season on injured reserve)
• Brandon Lloyd
• Shane Vereen
• Daniel Fells
• Greg Salas
• Donte Stallworth
• Jabar Gaffney

People do forget he was a record setting punt return and played solid cornerback (in 2010 during our SB run) for us during the years that he was out of the mix as a WR.

My only disagreement would be that Woodhead had 1 drop in 3 season here and Vereen had 7 this year alone, Vereen replaced the production of Woodhead but he did not replace making those key receptions for a first down on 3 and short or something like that, hopefully with the removal of the soft cast and an offseason workout program he can improve on drop number.

In fairness to Vereen, Woodhead's receptions are mostly high percentage dump offs when no one else was open and Vereen played most of his games with a cast on his wrist.

 

[mgteich]

I suppose that you are saying that Woodhead meant more to the team than his 40 receptions for 446 yards. Please expand on that thought.

You think that Vereen didn't replace Woodhead in that he replaced Woodhead's production in half a season rather than spread out his production over the year. I don't quite understand.

However, if we considering replacements, then I guess we should include both Vereen and his backup Bolden. One of them was available as the 3rd down receiver in all games. Together they totaled 68 receptions for 579 yards.

I am having trouble understand how we much we missed Woodhead, other then the fact that we simply wanted to have him on the team.

Edelman replaced Welker, but Vereen didn't replace Woodhead.

Edelman became the go to WR and made most of the plays that Welker would have. I think he did that role better than Welker would have this year.

Vereen missed half the season. And he was pretty different than Woodhead in a lot of ways. I think they missed Woodhead's play delayed draws and direct snaps that fooled defenses a lot.

I would argue the Pats missed Woodhead more this season than Welker. If Vereen played the entire season, I may think otherwise.

What this team missed more than anything was a receiving TE other than the six games Gronk played in and a consistent outside threat. The later has been missing for a while now. Lloyd was decent at it in 2012 and Dobson looked to be getting good at it before he was injured.

 

[letekro]

The replacement of Welker and Woodhead was the highest concern as the season started. It turned out that Edelman and Vereen did fine jobs as replacements.

I agree, but, in my opinion, it was never a significant concern. The reaction around here when Welker and Woody left was as if no one noticed that the Patriots had shifted to a Gronk-Hernandez-centric attack (two players significantly more difficult to defend than Wes Welker) and needed players on the outside to complete the offense. You can argue about what they did to fill that void, but Amendola was brought in as a slot guy that could also play outside, they signed Jenkins, they drafted 2 outside WRs relatively high and added more as unrestricted free agents. The void on the outside, along with the absence of Hernandez and Gronk were far bigger concerns than filling the slot receiver and 3d down back roles.

 

[Rob0729]

I suppose that you are saying that Woodhead meant more to the team than his 40 receptions for 446 yards. Please expand on that thought.

You think that Vereen didn't replace Woodhead in that he replaced Woodhead's production in half a season rather than spread out his production over the year. I don't quite understand.

However, if we considering replacements, then I guess we should include both Vereen and his backup Bolden. One of them was available as the 3rd down receiver in all games. Together they totaled 68 receptions for 579 yards.

I am having trouble understand how we much we missed Woodhead, other then the fact that we simply wanted to have him on the team.

I mainly meant it that Vereen missed more than half the season. So he didn't really replace Woodhead.

I also kinda look at them as two different positions much like Gronk and Hernandez last year. Played the same position in name, but very different roles. Both were the 3rd down/change of pace/receiving RB, but both have/had different roles.

 

[mgteich]

fair enough

I mainly meant it that Vereen missed more than half the season. So he didn't really replace Woodhead.

I also kinda look at them as two different positions much like Gronk and Hernandez last year. Played the same position in name, but very different roles. Both were the 3rd down/change of pace/receiving RB, but both have/had different roles.

 

[IcyPatriot]

The offense changes from year to year ...

I think it's a fallacy to say anyone replaced anybody.

The offense went in a new direction this year and it will again next year.

Losing Hernandez and Gronk to injury changed everything that had been planned so we never got to see the off season plan for the WR's ... they made do with what they had ... that became the plan.