The 2013 Prospect Thread

[mayoclinic]

Good for Kyle Long and Menelik Watson. As high upside guys, they'll get a look from teams in the late first and second rounds.

Late 2nd for Watson? That seems like a huge stretch. Love his athleticism, but man, is he raw.

May not be a great time to let Vollmer walk and have to reach for an OT to replace him.

 

[mayoclinic]

Good for Kyle Long and Menelik Watson. As high upside guys, they'll get a look from teams in the late first and second rounds.

BTW, I didn't realize this until just recently - perhaps you did, though I don't recall seeing it mentioned - but Kyle Long and Menelik Watson both played tackle last year for little Saddleback College in Mission Viejo, California. Long transferred to Oregon and Watson (who had to play RT because Long was playing LT) transferred to Florida St. Unreal story. Scar needs to stake that place out.

 

[ATippett56]

Late 2nd for Watson? That seems like a huge stretch. Love his athleticism, but man, is he raw.

Brian Winters looks like a steal at the end of third round if Watson and Long are rated ahead of him.

 

[mayoclinic]

Not official yet, but Dee Milliner and Eddie Lacy rumored to be declaring shortly:

Eddie Lacy, Dee Milliner expected to leave Alabama for 2013 NFL Draft - SBNation.com

 

[ATippett56]

May not be a great time to let Vollmer walk and have to reach for an OT to replace him.

Rob Rang's analysis of the upcoming offensive tackle draft class differs with your opinion.

2013 NFL Draft: CU's Bakhtiari, LSU's Faulk add to surprising OT class - CBSSports

 

[mayoclinic]

Rob Rang's analysis of the upcoming offensive tackle draft class differs with your opinion.

2013 NFL Draft: CU's Bakhtiari, LSU's Faulk add to surprising OT class - CBSSports

Yes, it does. That seems a tad optimistic to me. Does Bakhtiari and Faulk coming out help? Sure. Is it in any way close to what Lewan and Matthews would have provided? Not to my mind. I personally don't see Rang's "one of this year's top position groups" evaluation. JMHO.

One other thought: Oday Aboushi could benefit greatly from the absence of Lewan and Matthews.

 

[ATippett56]

Yes, it does. That seems a tad optimistic to me. Does Bakhtiari and Faulk coming out help? Sure. Is it in any way close to what Lewan and Matthews would have provided? Not to my mind. I personally don't see Rang's "one of this year's top position groups" evaluation. JMHO.

One other thought: Oday Aboushi could benefit greatly from the absence of Lewan and Matthews.

After last year's draft, I don't cling to "draft binkies" as much as in the past.

Seriously, draft Jake "the bust" Bequette, with T-Rex arms nonetheless, over wide receiver Marvin Jones or defensive tackle Josh Chapman?

 

[mayoclinic]

Current NFL DraftScout rankings of OT prospects (some of whom project to guard), with the relative values in bold:

1. Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M
11. Eric Fisher, Central Michigan
14. Lane Johnson, Oklahoma
28. DJ Fluker, Alabama
36. Oday Aboushi, Virginia Tech
42. Kyle Long, Oregon
50. Dallas Thomas, Tennessee
55. Justin Pugh, Syracuse
67. Chris Faulk, LSU
77. Menelik Watson, Florida
87. David Bakhtiari, Colorado
113. Brennan Williams, North Carolina (coming off an injury)
121. Brian Winters, Kent St.
137. Rich Wagner, Wisconsin
148. Xavier Nixon, Florida
160. David Quessenberry, San Jose St.
178. Reid Fragel, Ohio St.
228. Terron Armstead, Arkansas-Pine Bluff
403. Garrett Gilkey, Chadron St.
432. Luke Marquardt, Asuza Pacific
489. Vinston Painter, Virginia Tech

What's the common theme about the guys in bold. Almost all of them - every single one, I believe, except for Vinston Painter - has been championed by none other than Brother Manx. :youtheman:

 

[ATippett56]

Current NFL DraftScout rankings of OT prospects (some of whom project to guard), with the relative values in bold:

Your list is already outdated:

NFL Draft - 2013 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

87. David Bakhtiari, OT - Colorado

 

[mayoclinic]

Your list is already outdated:

NFL Draft - 2013 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

87. David Bakhtiari, OT - Colorado

No, same list, I just forgot to put Bakhtiari in. Fixed. Thanks.

 

[mayoclinic]

NFL DraftScout's updated rankings have Dion Jordan (26) and Barrett Jones (37) noted as having injury concerns, making them potentially volatile draft stocks. Good candidates for potential values.

 

[manxman2601]

Current NFL DraftScout rankings of OT prospects (some of whom project to guard), with the relative values in bold:

1. Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M
11. Eric Fisher, Central Michigan
14. Lane Johnson, Oklahoma
28. DJ Fluker, Alabama
36. Oday Aboushi, Virginia Tech
42. Kyle Long, Oregon
50. Dallas Thomas, Tennessee
55. Justin Pugh, Syracuse
67. Chris Faulk, LSU
77. Menelik Watson, Florida
87. David Bakhtiari, Colorado
113. Brennan Williams, North Carolina (coming off an injury)
121. Brian Winters, Kent St.
137. Rich Wagner, Wisconsin
148. Xavier Nixon, Florida
160. David Quessenberry, San Jose St.
178. Reid Fragel, Ohio St.
228. Terron Armstead, Arkansas-Pine Bluff
403. Garrett Gilkey, Chadron St.
432. Luke Marquardt, Asuza Pacific
489. Vinston Painter, Virginia Tech

What's the common theme about the guys in bold. Almost all of them - every single one, I believe, except for Vinston Painter - has been championed by none other than Brother Manx. :youtheman:

Thankyou. Although Quessenberry is Mackenzie's, not mine.

Looking at that list, and leaving aside the later bunch who are development prospects, the best values for me are Dallas Thomas who I have a borderline 1st round grade on and Reid Fragel who could get to that level in the NFL pretty quick with his plus athleticism.

Three more thoughts:

1. I know franchising Vollmer is the best way to approach things because he'll cost LT money but I wonder if it might be worth doing if it means taking someone like Long, Watson or Fragel and giving them a years development. Also, with the scarcity of top LT's in the draft and a lot of teams in need, is tagging and trading a possibility? I don't know enough about that sort of thing so looking for input.

I hasten to add that I'm not looking to offload Vollmer, just speculating what might happen if the Pats are going that way.


2. Saw some tape of Kyle Long playing LT instead of OG where I'd seen him before, He was much better. His size and strength are real plusses. He was throwing defenders around like a cat playing with a mouse, albeit they were smaller pac-12 defenders. I'm still concerned about his blocking 'intelligence' in space - he still tends to look lost if there's not someone directly in front of him to block but, I'm much more impressed now.

3. This is a real long-shot. I think Jon Cooper projects as a very good center as well as a Guard, but I've started to wonder about him as an OT. He might not look to have ideal Pats size for the position, but he's about the same size as Matt Light. What made me think about it is watching Solder in space blocking on screens. The Pats seem to use the Tackles more than the Guards for this and of course, this is Cooper's strongest suit. Not really thinking it could happen, just idle speculation.

 

[manxman2601]

I have five premier binkies this year:

Jon Cooper
The "Ansah" to all our prayers
Markus Wheaton
Alec Ogletree

and Leon McFadden. Finally there's a chance to show some video of him:

Leon Mcfadden vs BYU 2012 - YouTube

Unfortunately it doesn't show too much but there's a few things I'd like you to look at.

One of the things I love about him is his speed to close on a pass and this is best showcased on the second play. He stops and starts so quickly. Also, his hips are so smooth; he changes direction with ease and mirrors the receivers very well. Unfortunately, the video also demonstrates his one major weakness, namely a lack of strength against the run.

I've said before that Mcfadden reminds me of Casey Hayward. I stand by that. Casey Hayward has made a strong case for rookie of the year and was one of the best CB's in the NFL this year. Just saying.

 

[mayoclinic]

Thankyou. Although Quessenberry is Mackenzie's, not mine.

I thought you had "Mayofied" Quessenberry and jumped on that bandwagon.

Looking at that list, and leaving aside the later bunch who are development prospects, the best values for me are Dallas Thomas who I have a borderline 1st round grade on and Reid Fragel who could get to that level in the NFL pretty quick with his plus athleticism.

I would add Brian Winters at 121 to that list in terms of value. Winters in the late 3rd/early 4th would be exceptional value, though I doubt he'll stay that low.

Three more thoughts:

1. I know franchising Vollmer isn't the best way to approach things because he'll cost LT money but I wonder if it might be worth doing if it means taking someone like Long, Watson or Fragel and giving them a years development. Also, with the scarcity of top LT's in the draft and a lot of teams in need, is tagging and trading a possibility? I don't know enough about that sort of thing so looking for input.

I hasten to add that I'm not looking to offload Vollmer, just speculating what might happen if the Pats are going that way.

If the FO is worried about Vollmer's back and afraid to lock in to a long term deal, the franchise tag is a reasonable option, but it carries a big cap hit that the team may not be able to handle given a tight projected cap situation. But if they can manage it, and if they thik that Long, Watson or Fragel is a year away from being a starter, it's a good alternative.

2. Saw some tape of Kyle Long playing LT instead of OG where I'd seen him before, He was much better. His size and strength are real plusses. He was throwing defenders around like a cat playing with a mouse, albeit they were smaller pac-12 defenders. I'm still concerned about his blocking 'intelligence' in space - he still tends to look lost if there's not someone directly in front of him to block but, I'm much more impressed now.

I also like Long better as a tackle than as a guard. Not sure he's quick enough getting out of his stance. Though Long's versatility - he's played LT, RT and LG this year - should appeal to BB and Scar. Now I think that your boy Garrett Gilkey could be a real sleeper at guard, as well as at tackle. He seems to just explode out of his stance.

3. This is a real long-shot. I think Jon Cooper projects as a very good center as well as a Guard, but I've started to wonder about him as an OT. He might not look to have ideal Pats size for the position, but he's about the same size as Matt Light. What made me think about it is watching Solder in space blocking on screens. The Pats seem to use the Tackles more than the Guards for this and of course, this is Cooper's strongest suit. Not really thinking it could happen, just idle speculation.

I'm sure Cooper has the athleticism and talent to do just about anything, but that would seem to be like taking a Kentucky derby horse and trying to making an equestrian jumper out of him. Not the best use of his skill set, and other guys available far cheaper could probably fill ion as well or better at tackle. I also think he's probably on the low side of 6'3", which makes him really short for a tackle.

 

[mayoclinic]

In detail look at Mackenzie's boy Travis Kelce:

Watch Out For TE Kelce - Evaluations - Rotoworld.com

 

[kennyb]

What do you mean when you say nfldraftscout's list has "relative values" in bold? Aren't those values the values that nfldraftscout has? How could their own values be "relative values"? Compared to what?

I think it would be a bad idea to franchise Vollmer, unless it's for a tag and trade and even then it's risky that he just signs it and you can't trade him. You can't sign every good draft pick you have to a FA contract when the time comes, if you have a lot of good draft picks. YOu can't afford them all, have to let this one fly the coop and get a 3rd round compensatory (hopefully).

They drafted Cannon and have been training the guy from Iowa for a while, time to let them play. 10M for a RT with a bad back is way too expensive. Better off signing welker for 11M at WR for a 1 year rental. He brings something unique at least.

My "binkies" so far are: Kawann Short, Terry Hawthorne, Melvine White, Steadman Bailey, Gerald Hodges

 

[mayoclinic]

Dee Milliner, DJ Fluker and Eddie Lacy all declare:

Alabama’s Dee Milliner, Eddie Lacey, D.J. Fluker enter NFL draft | ProFootballTalk

 

[mayoclinic]

What do you mean when you say nfldraftscout's list has "relative values" in bold? Aren't those values the values that nfldraftscout has? How could their own values be "relative values"? Compared to what?

I meant that if they could be drafted in the range of those rankings, I believe those players would be excellent values. Eric Fisher and Lane Johnson are fine prospects, but in the top 15 range (currently ranked 14 and 16) I don't consider them "values". Same with Kyle Long at 42 or Menelik Watson at 77 - I'm intrigued by both guys, but I personally wouldn't consider them "values" in those respective draft ranges. Whereas I think that if any of the guys listed in bold go anywhere close to where NFL DraftScout currently ranks them, or lower, they would be absolute steals.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

After last year's draft, I don't cling to "draft binkies" as much as in the past.

Seriously, draft Jake "the bust" Bequette, with T-Rex arms nonetheless, over wide receiver Marvin Jones or defensive tackle Josh Chapman?

I don't like the hindsight game but Bequette one pick after Akiem Hicks will bother me for years.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't like the hindsight game but Bequette one pick after Akiem Hicks will bother me for years.

Tell me about it.