The 2013 Prospect Thread

[EwanSellars]

or picking taylor price one pick before navarro bowman

 

[manxman2601]

I don't like the hindsight game but Bequette one pick after Akiem Hicks will bother me for years.

or picking taylor price one pick before navarro bowman

OK. I'm cutting this line of discussion off right here. No good will come of it!

 

[JackBauer]

I don't like the hindsight game but Bequette one pick after Akiem Hicks will bother me for years.

Unless Bequette ends up being a player. Stranger things have happened.

 

[mayoclinic]

I have five premier binkies this year:

Jon Cooper
The "Ansah" to all our prayers
Markus Wheaton
Alec Ogletree

and Leon McFadden. Finally there's a chance to show some video of him:

Leon Mcfadden vs BYU 2012 - YouTube

Unfortunately it doesn't show too much but there's a few things I'd like you to look at.

One of the things I love about him is his speed to close on a pass and this is best showcased on the second play. He stops and starts so quickly. Also, his hips are so smooth; he changes direction with ease and mirrors the receivers very well. Unfortunately, the video also demonstrates his one major weakness, namely a lack of strength against the run.

I've said before that Mcfadden reminds me of Casey Hayward. I stand by that. Casey Hayward has made a strong case for rookie of the year and was one of the best CB's in the NFL this year. Just saying.

I don't know if I have many "binkies" other than Ziggy Ansah. He's the One. "The Ansah to all our prayers", as you say, though I have little hope that we have a shot at him. Either Dion Jordan or Alec Ogletree as a hybrid/coverage/space player well for me. I love Cooper, but not to the point of binky status. I love Jesse Williams, but also not quite to the binky level. Same with Tavon Austin.

There are about 10 guys right now atop my "value" list from who are currently graded as 3rd round prospects or later (sometimes much later) by NFLDraftScout. Taking them in order, with NFL Draft Scout's current rankings:

98. Tharold Simon, CB, LSU - Ike Taylor clone, maybe a poor man's Richard Sherman
121. Brian Winters, OT, Kent St. - poor man's Mankins
124. Brandon Williams, DT, Missouri Southern - poor man's Wilfork
141. Joe Kruger, DE, Utah - called a Sasquatch by one local
178. Reid Fragel, OT, Ohio St. - poor man's Solder
180. Michael Williams, TE, Alabama - poor man's Alge Crumpler
253. Nick Kasa, TE, Colorado - very raw, but some hints of poor man's Gronk potential
356. Dexter McCoil, FS, Tulsa - also very raw, but great size and fluidity
400. Alonzo Highsmith, LB, Arkansas - way under the radar because of injury
403. Garrett Gilkey, OL, Chadron St. - poor man's Robert Gallery

None of them are at the level of binky status, but I'd be happy to get any or all of them in that projected range.

There are a ton of other guys I like, depending on where they sort out in terms of value. Guys like Kyle Long, Dallas Thomas, Travis Frederick, Barrett Jones, Tank Carradine, Matt Elam, Travis Kelce, Jamar Taylor, Markus Wheaton, etc. Plenty of good players. Probably some good values, for those smart enough to find them.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I'm sure you and Manx have discussed him. Can't find. What do you think of Robert Alford - CB - SE Louisiana?? Heard about him from JB Scouting. They specialize in small school guys. He thinks Alford will run 4.4 or better at the combine. CBS has him projected in the 3rd. Might have to take him at 62 if he runs that.

#13 Robert Alford, 5-11, 188, CB, Southeastern Louisiana Highlights 2012 (some 2011) - YouTube

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm sure you and Manx have discussed him. Can't find. What do you think of Robert Alford - CB - SE Louisiana?? Heard about him from JB Scouting. They specialize in small school guys. He thinks Alford will run 4.4 or better at the combine. CBS has him projected in the 3rd. Might have to take him at 62 if he runs that.

#13 Robert Alford, 5-11, 188, CB, Southeastern Louisiana Highlights 2012 (some 2011) - YouTube

See posts 1423, 1429 and 1457 in this thread. Tony Pauline hears scouts like Alford and thinks he could be a top 45 pick. I don't see that much love, yet. Mackenzie wasn't impressed, and doesn't think he's that fast. He did get a Senior Bowl invitation, so we should get a better sense of him there. I believe he will also be 25 as a rookie, FWIW.

 

[patsfaninpa]

See posts 1423, 1429 and 1457 in this thread. Tony Pauline hears scouts like Alford and thinks he could be a top 45 pick. I don't see that much love, yet. Mackenzie wasn't impressed, and doesn't think he's that fast. He did get a Senior Bowl invitation, so we should get a better sense of him there. I believe he will also be 25 as a rookie, FWIW.

Where are these old dudes coming from? Ha! Sylvester Williams will be 25 and K. Short will be 24 during their rookie year too.

 

[mayoclinic]

Interesting writeup on Menelik Watson from Kevin Weidl at ESPNInsider:

Watson (6-6, 320) was raised in England and had a tough childhood but eventually made it to a basketball academy in Spain. From there, he earned a scholarship to Marist, where he played two years of basketball before quitting because he disliked losing. (The Red Foxes went 6-27 in his redshirt freshman year.)

He briefly toyed with the idea of becoming a heavyweight boxer, but Watson instead landed at Saddleback Community College in California with the idea of taking up football. He arrived at Saddleback in August 2011 having never put on pads before, but his development was astounding. Watson was a starter by the fourth game of the season.

The Florida State staff took notice after being tipped off by a friend of Watson and offered him a scholarship, and Watson started 12 games at right tackle for the Seminoles this season.

Watson's basketball background shows on the field. His natural feet and athleticism were on display on the first play of the Florida game, when he opened up and pulled easily down the line into space.

He is raw in terms of awareness and locating defenders and is a step late recognizing blitz and twists at times, but those things will improve with experience. Watson has the smooth feet to shuffle and mirror against pass-rushers, and his long arms help him ride defenders past the pocket.

I do have questions about his lower-body strength and ability to anchor in protection. He can be seen being lifted off his feet by speed-to-power moves at times against the Gators, and Floyd even threw him to the ground at one point. He was often rocked back into the pocket against Florida and also against Virginia Tech, when his subpar angles caused him to be beaten inside at times.

Scouts are sure to be intrigued with Watson's physical tools and potential. The fringe of Day 2 appears to be a starting point for his stock.

2013 NFL draft - Florida DT Shariff Floyd is gaining momentum - ESPN

 

[mayoclinic]

Observations from NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah from bowl games:

2013 NFL Draft: Ziggy Ansah promising; QBs are question marks - NFL.com

I would have given Anthony Barr near-binky status if he had come out, along with Ogletree and Jordan (he's sort of half way in between the two).

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't like the hindsight game but Bequette one pick after Akiem Hicks will bother me for years.

You want an Akiem Hicks kind of prospect? Here he is:

2013 NFL Draft: Texas DT Brandon Moore declares early - SBNation.com

I've been high on this guy for 6 months (see post #345 in this thread), but didn't expect him to come out this year. It's a surprise, and from his perspective, probably a mistake - he would have gone much higher next year after another year's experience. He's 6'5" 324# with astonishing athleticism, the strength to 2-gap and the quickness to disrupt. The tape on him is very limited. He'll almost certainly be a day 3 prospect, with day 2 upside. He had 8 TFL, 6 QB pressures and 2 sacks this year. There's limited tape on him, and he is very much under the radar.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

You want an Akiem Hicks kind of prospect? Here he is:

2013 NFL Draft: Texas DT Brandon Moore declares early - SBNation.com

I've been high on this guy for 6 months (see post #345 in this thread), but didn't expect him to come out this year. It's a surprise, and from his perspective, probably a mistake - he would have gone much higher next year after another year's experience. He's 6'5" 324# with astonishing athleticism, the strength to 2-gap and the quickness to disrupt. The tape on him is very limited. He'll almost certainly be a day 3 prospect, with day 2 upside. He had 8 TFL, 6 QB pressures and 2 sacks this year. There's limited tape on him, and he is very much under the radar.

Don't need to remind me, brother. I actually have a few Texas games but I haven't watched them. I'll add him to my potential grizzly list.

Deandre Colemen
William Campbell
Kapron Lewis-Moore
Quinton Dial
Brandon Moore

 

[mayoclinic]

Don't need to remind me, brother. I actually have a few Texas games but I haven't watched them. I'll add him to my potential grizzly list.

Deandre Colemen
William Campbell
Kapron Lewis-Moore
Quinton Dial
Brandon Moore

William Campbell is definitely intriguing. Insisted on playing point guard in BB games with his teammates.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

William Campbell is definitely intriguing. Insisted on playing point guard in BB games with his teammates.

He's the closest to Hicks IMO, but he lacks the same ferocity.

For those that don't know, Campbell was a highly recruited 5 star prospect from 2009 that never really developed until last year when a new defensive coordinator was hired. He's still raw and could bust, but he has enormous potential. He's about 6'5" 310.

 

[mayoclinic]

He's the closest to Hicks IMO, but he lacks the same ferocity.

For those that don't know, Campbell was a highly recruited 5 star prospect from 2009 that never really developed until last year when a new defensive coordinator was hired. He's still raw and could bust, but he has enormous potential. He's about 6'5" 310.

Yeah, Campbell is intriguing. His frame could allow him to get in the 320 range, and he could be a something in-between a Hicks and Brockers stylistically. While he was largely a bust before this year, a couple of thoughts:

- He pretty much admitted he was a bust and took responsibility. That's something. Some kids never do, and he may just be a late maturing guy.
- Michigan moved him to OL for most of one season (I think it was 2010, IIRC), which may have ******ed his development. The fact that he agreed to make the switch says something about his attitude.

As a late round/UDFA guy, he's intriguing, as is Brandon Moore.

 

[manxman2601]

Kwame Geathers has no anchor at all. I was amazed at how far he got pushed back on play after play against GT. 4-5 yards on almost every play. One of the worst tapes I've seen all year I'm afraid. Admittedly he's better when trying to get upfield, but as a NT, no thanks.

 

[mayoclinic]

Kwame Geathers has no anchor at all. I was amazed at how far he got pushed back on play after play against GT. 4-5 yards on almost every play. One of the worst tapes I've seen all year I'm afraid. Admittedly he's better when trying to get upfield, but as a NT, no thanks.

Agreed. He hasn't been on my list for a long, long time.

 

[mackenzie45220]

Not a good move by Lewan.

Faulk is intriguing as a former first rounder. I wish I had some 2012 film but that's only North Texas @ LSU.

Seems like everyone from LSU is declaring.

I got plenty of Faulk film from sophomore year. He's a good athlete with long arms, he is very good as a pass blocker, and he creates a wide base, but he plays with average on field intensity, has poor on field awareness, poor balance, not fluid, and he is mistake prone as a run blocker.

 

[mackenzie45220]

Current NFL DraftScout rankings of OT prospects (some of whom project to guard), with the relative values in bold:

1. Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M
11. Eric Fisher, Central Michigan
14. Lane Johnson, Oklahoma
28. DJ Fluker, Alabama
36. Oday Aboushi, Virginia Tech
42. Kyle Long, Oregon
50. Dallas Thomas, Tennessee
55. Justin Pugh, Syracuse
67. Chris Faulk, LSU
77. Menelik Watson, Florida
87. David Bakhtiari, Colorado
113. Brennan Williams, North Carolina (coming off an injury)
121. Brian Winters, Kent St.
137. Rich Wagner, Wisconsin
148. Xavier Nixon, Florida
160. David Quessenberry, San Jose St.
178. Reid Fragel, Ohio St.
228. Terron Armstead, Arkansas-Pine Bluff
403. Garrett Gilkey, Chadron St.
432. Luke Marquardt, Asuza Pacific
489. Vinston Painter, Virginia Tech

What's the common theme about the guys in bold. Almost all of them - every single one, I believe, except for Vinston Painter - has been championed by none other than Brother Manx. :youtheman:

I didn't know manx was a Quessenberry fan. It wouldn't surprise me though. We agree with basically everyone

 

[mackenzie45220]

I thought you had "Mayofied" Quessenberry and jumped on that bandwagon.



I would add Brian Winters at 121 to that list in terms of value. Winters in the late 3rd/early 4th would be exceptional value, though I doubt he'll stay that low.



If the FO is worried about Vollmer's back and afraid to lock in to a long term deal, the franchise tag is a reasonable option, but it carries a big cap hit that the team may not be able to handle given a tight projected cap situation. But if they can manage it, and if they thik that Long, Watson or Fragel is a year away from being a starter, it's a good alternative.



I also like Long better as a tackle than as a guard. Not sure he's quick enough getting out of his stance. Though Long's versatility - he's played LT, RT and LG this year - should appeal to BB and Scar. Now I think that your boy Garrett Gilkey could be a real sleeper at guard, as well as at tackle. He seems to just explode out of his stance.



I'm sure Cooper has the athleticism and talent to do just about anything, but that would seem to be like taking a Kentucky derby horse and trying to making an equestrian jumper out of him. Not the best use of his skill set, and other guys available far cheaper could probably fill ion as well or better at tackle. I also think he's probably on the low side of 6'3", which makes him really short for a tackle.

I need to say, Winters has a terrible build

 

[mackenzie45220]

If you want to hear some good draft analysis, take a listen:
TalkShoe - Call - CDS Radio Pro Prospects Radio Show
I was on last week's show with Bill Carroll. We spent hours going over prospects. A few things of note:
Carroll has more access to game film than I do. He's seen my "binkie" David Bass many times. And he basically corroborated everything I said in the scouting report. His fluidity is amazing, his instincts are awesome, and his fundamentals are phenomenal. That being said, it is all against weak competition. Facing tough competition will be a huge adjustment for him, and, if he fails, that will be the reason. But he has all the talent I saw from him in the Central Missouri game. His awesome fundamentals and athleticism make him look like a guy who WOULD have dominated in the SEC, but it's not that easy.
He agrees with me 100% on Dion Jordan (and he has John Jenkins in the 3rd round). Length is useless unless you know how to use it.
One of his favorite binkies is Gilbert Pena of Ole Miss. He's raw, but surprisingly quick.
He loves Rontez Miles.
He loves Larry Warford