Give me your top 5 QBs

[Kontradiction]

:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

The funny thing is that, I'm not even in the minority thinking that Manning has out-preformed Brady this season. But on homerville Patsfans, of course I am the minority.

1. Manning has been clutch
2. Coming off an injury/ coming into a new team isn't easy (as seen with many players in the past in all sports) but when these things happen and you perform at a high level, I find it very impressive

I don't get how you think "I know that I'm wrong but just want to put Manning ahead". Why they hell would I want to do that? :confused3:

I'm not a homer and I think that Brady has vastly outplayed Manning this season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not a homer and I think that Brady has vastly outplayed Manning this season.

Vastly? The numbers don't back up your position.

Eyeball test? Perhaps.

In the sampling of Broncos games that I've had the chance to watch, hes looked pretty damn good to me.

Over their careers is PM > TB....uh, no.

 

[Kontradiction]

Vastly? The numbers don't back up your position.

Eyeball test? Perhaps.

In the sampling of Broncos games that I've had the chance to watch, hes looked pretty damn good to me.

Over their careers is PM > TB....uh, no.

As has been mentioned earlier, Manning hasn't had to deal with the personnel issues that Brady has, nor has he had to (again) adapt to a new offense, like Brady has/is. In that time, the Patriots beat the Broncos (and were doing it convincingly throughout most of the game) and have put themselves in position for the #2 seed at the halfway point. Given everything Brady has had to deal with as opposed to Manning, he's outplayed him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As has been mentioned earlier, Manning hasn't had to deal with the personnel issues that Brady has,

Huh? Look at the majority of the Manning pass-catchers. They are brand new to him.

nor has he had to (again) adapt to a new offense, like Brady has/is.

TB is not playing in a new offense. Really?

In that time, the Patriots beat the Broncos (and were doing it convincingly throughout most of the game) and have put themselves in position for the #2 seed at the halfway point. Given everything Brady has had to deal with as opposed to Manning, he's outplayed him.

They've both been incredibly productive.

 

[Kontradiction]

Huh? Look at the majority of the Manning pass-catchers. They are brand new to him.

They're also more talented than anything he's had since Marvin Harrison was in his prime. The other guys sprinkled in are Manning's binkies that he's had success working with before in Indy. Denver's defense is probably the best defense that a Manning team has ever had. These are all things that people hyped up prior to Manning going there. The only question mark was how his neck would hold up, and that's looked fine so far.

Meanwhile, Brady has had to deal with an ever interchanging offensive line, two banged up TE's, a team that was trying not to incorporate a heavy dose of Wes Welker earlier in the season, a new offensive system than the one he was used to in the last two years, and a shoddy pass defense that was blowing late leads. Through all that, he's still guided the Pats to a better record than the Broncos and has numbers that are comparable even with more of an emphasis on the running game than their has been in recent years.

TB is not playing in a new offense. Really?

Sure he is. It's been mentioned several times in the media how there are different wrinkles involved. Further, McDaniels offense is different from O'Brien's.

They've both been incredibly productive.

I never said Manning wasn't productive. Just that Brady has outplayed him with worse circumstances to this point.

 

[1960Pats]

Explain to me how Manning has been 'clutch' when his team has lost each game decided by 10 or fewer points.

Or is it the fact that he is 1-3 against teams with winning records and beaten up on crappy teams that makes him clutch?

If you looked at a number of "all time clutch QB" top ten lists, PManning would be trailing Montana, Elway, Brady, Staubach, Starr, Stabler, Graham, Marino, and probably his brother Eli, Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger as well, and that's if P6 is even on the list.

Peyton Manning is a great regular season QB, and is the darling of the mediots, but "clutch" is not a word anyone should use to describe him.

 

[1960Pats]

He kind of did crumble in that game. His overall numbers in that game were good but the last 5 drives with the game on the line he wasn't able to do anything. There are plenty of examples of his clutchness but I can never understand how people pick that game.

If that game proved anything about QBs, it was that Alex Smith was not ready for prime time. I've never seen a QB look so obviously tight in a big situation like that kid did that day. By the late 3rd and 4th quarters he couldn't complete a pass to a WR to save his life and was bouncing the ball to his RBs on swing passes.

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

Why is everyone overrating Peyton Manning because he pads up his stats in garbage time and then have the media try to crown him as some comeback king. Surely Houston, Atlanta and NE slowed down because there was no way Manning was overcoming the near 20+ point deficit is so little time. The other teams he beat, were expected to lose, because they straight suck on defense.

1. Tom Brady (Always have and always will be)
2. Eli Manning (hate him, but he's getting it done this year)
3. RGIII (Overhyped, but I've watched him play three games and I'm convinced)
4. Drew Brees (Though overrated, I can't think of another QB with better deep ball accuracy, the guy is still averaging 30+ but he can't overcome his defense.)
5. Aaron Rodgers (by default, there's no other good QBs)

 

[RobertWeathers]

They're also more talented than anything he's had since Marvin Harrison was in his prime. The other guys sprinkled in are Manning's binkies that he's had success working with before in Indy. Denver's defense is probably the best defense that a Manning team has ever had. These are all things that people hyped up prior to Manning going there. The only question mark was how his neck would hold up, and that's looked fine so far.

Meanwhile, Brady has had to deal with an ever interchanging offensive line, two banged up TE's, a team that was trying not to incorporate a heavy dose of Wes Welker earlier in the season, a new offensive system than the one he was used to in the last two years, and a shoddy pass defense that was blowing late leads. Through all that, he's still guided the Pats to a better record than the Broncos and has numbers that are comparable even with more of an emphasis on the running game than their has been in recent years.

3 of his top 5 receivers hes never played with and he has a new center (twice) and brand new players on the o-line that hes playing with for the 1st time. New OC. New HC. Now Elway has stated that he is running the same offense that he did in Indy. Thats it. To say that Brady has experienced more change is bordering on homerish.

Sure he is. It's been mentioned several times in the media how there are different wrinkles involved. Further, McDaniels offense is different from O'Brien's.

You are flat out wrong. The base offensive system is the same- the Ray Perkins offense which is cast from the Ron Erhardt offense. Over the years Weis, JMcD and BOB- including BB have all added their own wrinkles, formations, route-tree layers and individualized play calling philosophies but to say that BB allows a new offensive system with every new OC is preposterous.

I never said Manning wasn't productive. Just that Brady has outplayed him with worse circumstances to this point.

No, you didn't, I did. You stated that TB have vastly outplayed PM and I think you are way off. It is reasonable to say that TB has vastly outplayed Michael Vick. Thats a bit more accurate.

 

[Kontradiction]

Now you sound like you're arguing just to argue.

3 of his top 5 receivers hes never played with and he has a new center (twice) and brand new players on the o-line that hes playing with for the 1st time.

Again, he's had the most talent all around that he's ever played with since Harrison was in his prime. Unlike Brady, the O-Line that he's playing behind has not been interchanging consistently since the preseason. So you're fighting a losing battle there.

New OC. New HC. Now Elway has stated that he is running the same offense that he did in Indy. Thats it.

New OC, new HC, same EXACT system with better receivers around him to run it. Brady has a new (old) OC that has incorporated new wrinkles into the game plan, an interchanging O-Line since the preseason, a new receiver to work into a much more difficult system, and nagging injuries to his top two weapons (with one being out the majority of the season) and his numbers are still similar to Manning's. As a matter of fact, as of this week, he is the top dog in the NFL when it comes to passing yardage.

To say that Brady has experienced more change is bordering on homerish.

Because we all know that I'm a raging homer.

You are flat out wrong. The base offensive system is the same- the Ray Perkins offense which is cast from the Ron Erhardt offense. Over the years Weis, JMcD and BOB- including BB have all added their own wrinkles, formations, route-tree layers and individualized play calling philosophies but to say that BB allows a new offensive system with every new OC is preposterous.

The base offensive system is the same. The new wrinkles are what's different. In Denver, Manning pretty much IS the OC. In New England, Brady has the new wrinkles (as compared to BOB) that he has to work with and one all important new face that he needs to bring up to speed. With Lloyd, the "up to speed" part is more important than it would be with Manning as well. As you know, this is a significantly harder offense to learn than a simple timing offense.

No, you didn't, I did. You stated that TB have vastly outplayed PM and I think you are way off. It is reasonable to say that TB has vastly outplayed Michael Vick. Thats a bit more accurate.

Because he has. Manning has sucked for the most part in the first half of games and tends to pad his stats in the later portion of them when opposing defenses back off. Brady has had more strife to deal with on both sides of the ball in New England than Manning has in Denver this year. And yet, New England still has the better record and Brady still has more passing yards and only 3 INT's. Everything considered, he's vastly outplayed Manning.

 

[Ring 6]

:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

The funny thing is that, I'm not even in the minority thinking that Manning has out-preformed Brady this season. But on homerville Patsfans, of course I am the minority.

Because you say you aren't?
Only someone with a weak argument resorts to belittling the opinion of anyone who disagrees with him as part of a biased group. If you can't do better than that, you fail.

1. Manning has been clutch

THAT is your argument in response to the fact that he has lost every game decided by 10 or less points? He is because you say he is? Please give a single example of clutch play. Hint: There are none.

2. Coming off an injury/ coming into a new team isn't easy (as seen with many players in the past in all sports) but when these things happen and you perform at a high level, I find it very impressive

That has nothing to do with who has been a better QB. Find it as impressive as you want, who played better is not graded on a curve.

I don't get how you think "I know that I'm wrong but just want to put Manning ahead". Why they hell would I want to do that? :confused3:

I can't read your mind, I'm just commenting on what you write. You will have to judge your motivation for the inaccuracies for yourself. Perhaps figuring out why faced with overwhelming evidence you continue to want to pretend he has been clutch will assist your self analysis.

 

[Ring 6]

If you looked at a number of "all time clutch QB" top ten lists, PManning would be trailing Montana, Elway, Brady, Staubach, Starr, Stabler, Graham, Marino, and probably his brother Eli, Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger as well, and that's if P6 is even on the list.

Peyton Manning is a great regular season QB, and is the darling of the mediots, but "clutch" is not a word anyone should use to describe him.

I'm not even talking historically. Of course you are right, but this year Manning has lost every game decided by 10 or fewer points. To say he has been clutch is like saying he throws left handed.

 

[MoneyFX]

1. Tom Brady
2. Tom Brady's wife
3. Tom Brady's throwing motion
4. Tom Brady's mansion
5. Uhhh.... Tom Brady.

Jokes aside:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger

 

[RobertWeathers]

Now you sound like you're arguing just to argue.

Nice redirect. You started out saying that PM has vastly outplayed TB, has a completely different offense and has faced more adversity and the problem is that you make it sound like a no-brainer when it is anything but.

Again, he's had the most talent all around that he's ever played with since Harrison was in his prime. Unlike Brady, the O-Line that he's playing behind has not been interchanging consistently since the preseason. So you're fighting a losing battle there.

Saying "again" doesn't add more weight or increase the value of your argument. It just shows that you have nothing else to add.

The Colts went to the SB in 2009 which PM had a his disposal a more diverse passing attack than 07 or before. Harrison has been irrelevent since 06.

No losing battle here. Again, nice assumption but you are still wrong.

New OC, new HC, same EXACT system with better receivers around him to run it. Brady has a new (old) OC that has incorporated new wrinkles into the game plan, an interchanging O-Line since the preseason, a new receiver to work into a much more difficult system, and nagging injuries to his top two weapons (with one being out the majority of the season) and his numbers are still similar to Manning's. As a matter of fact, as of this week, he is the top dog in the NFL when it comes to passing yardage.

JMcD was OC from 05-08. You seem to not acknowledge that. There is a tremendous amount of familiarity and report BB has with JMcD.

Passing yardage? Who cares. If you want to get right down to it, wins, QBR and QB efficiency are all that matter.

Because we all know that I'm a raging homer.

I have no idea if you are or not but you sure come across like one.

The base offensive system is the same. The new wrinkles are what's different. In Denver, Manning pretty much IS the OC. In New England, Brady has the new wrinkles (as compared to BOB) that he has to work with and one all important new face that he needs to bring up to speed. With Lloyd, the "up to speed" part is more important than it would be with Manning as well. As you know, this is a significantly harder offense to learn than a simple timing offense.

So you are saying Fox and McCoy haven't added wrinkles to the Colts system in DEN? You can have the same base system and make changes to plays and the scheme.

Because he has. Manning has sucked for the most part in the first half of games and tends to pad his stats in the later portion of them when opposing defenses back off. Brady has had more strife to deal with on both sides of the ball in New England than Manning has in Denver this year. And yet, New England still has the better record and Brady still has more passing yards and only 3 INT's. Everything considered, he's vastly outplayed Manning.

If DEN wins they'll have the same record.

Did PM pad his stats vs SD? vs NE? Vs Pitt? Atl? HOU? Padding stats isn't when you lose by less than a TD and scoring in the 4th qtr.

 

[1960Pats]

I'm not even talking historically. Of course you are right, but this year Manning has lost every game decided by 10 or fewer points. To say he has been clutch is like saying he throws left handed.

Even just this year a case could be made for quite a few QBs over P6 for clutch play. Eli, Brady, Rodgers, Ryan and Roethlisberger come to mind.

One of the things that P6 has always had has been an offense that is his and his alone. That accounts for his stats. Every team he played on from college to the present day has played his offense. In spite of that, it took a complete shift in the NFL rules to allow him to squeak out a SB ring. More often than not, and totally unlike his little brother, he has come up small in the bigger games.

 

[1960Pats]

I'm not a homer and I think that Brady has vastly outplayed Manning this season.

Just for balance, I am a homer and I also think that Brady has vastly outplayed Manning this season.

 

[MassPats38]

I'm not even talking historically. Of course you are right, but this year Manning has lost every game decided by 10 or fewer points. To say he has been clutch is like saying he throws left handed.

Does this "clutch"argument turn on 4th quarter point scoring, or something else? If "clutch" is defined by 3 quarters of relative ineptitude, and a 4th quarter rally that may or may not fall short on a given week, then that would be clutch.

The Donkeys are 4-3, and would have to put 58 points on the board this week to match the Pats in scoring. Manning is 9 points higher in QBR, and is otherwise pretty even with Brady. By stats the two are comparable, but I would still pick Brady over Manning in terms of overall performance this season.

In terms of performance this season, Eli Manning isn't that strong (tied for 7th in INTs) unless the focus is on yardage alone. He is known for two passes on the biggest stage, and I will give him his due for earning that with his arm. But picture the fan response here if Brady ran a 6-2 team to 8-7 with 11 TDs to 10 ints and a QBR in one game of 45. Greatest QBs do not tank half a season, and Eli did last year. It is great he found himself in week 16 against the Cowboys last season, but great QBs are defined by relative consistency throughout a career, not by being on teams that can go on the most important of winning streaks, in the playoffs, every 5 years. The Giants backed into the playoffs, thanks to help from plenty of teams. I guess better to be lucky than good.

For performance this season,

Rodgers
Brady
P. Manning
Big Ben
Ryan

 

[Creative Username]

Eli never gets the credit he deserves. At sucking.

1. Brady
2a. Forehead Manning
2b. Rodgers
4. Brees
5. RGIII
.
.
.
16. Eli

 

[Fball]

If you looked at a number of "all time clutch QB" top ten lists, PManning would be trailing Montana, Elway, Brady, Staubach, Starr, Stabler, Graham, Marino, and probably his brother Eli, Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger as well, and that's if P6 is even on the list.

Peyton Manning is a great regular season QB, and is the darling of the mediots, but "clutch" is not a word anyone should use to describe him.

That's kind of a ridiculous thing to say. He has had mixed experience in the playoffs to be sure, but the '06 AFCCG - with the weight of so much playoff failure on his back, against his biggest nemesis - was one of the most clutch comebacks in that kind of game in recent history.

As for the regular season, you must think there is no such thing as "clutch" in that timeframe of the year, or you just haven't watched PM play over the years.

 

[FosterTheSkins]

1) Aaron Rodgers.
2) Eli Manning.
3) Tom Brady.
4) Payton Manning.
5) RG3 (Sue me I'm a bit biased).