Give me your top 5 QBs

[coolguy]

there are only 3 elite qbs: brady, rogers, brees.

eli and ben are tier 2 qbs along with rivers, schaub, ryan, etc.

Peyton manning is better than brees.

i always laugh when people say eli is better than peyton
When teams play the giants they mainly game plan to stop the pass rush
When teams play the giants/broncos they game plan to stop peyton
Getting pressure on brady is the focus when teams play the patriots.


I still think rivers is a better qb than eli, it's just that nerv turner's aura is holding him and his team back.

 

[PittPatriot]

Sorry to divert from the goal of this thread but I did not want to start a new one. Since we are talking about Top QBs…I almost spit up my morning cereal while reading this:

Luck versus Tannehill could be the closest thing we have to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning once those veteran stars retire. Brady, 35, and Manning, 36, are in the twilight of their careers after squaring off in many big games in the regular season and playoffs over the past dozen seasons.

Only beginning of Luck-Tannehill rivalry - AFC East Blog - ESPN

If by twilight you mean, the 2 of the 4 top QBs in the NFL and both in the hunt for postseason victories, then yes…TB and PM are in the twilight.

 

[coolguy]

Sorry to divert from the goal of this thread but I did not want to start a new one. Since we are talking about Top QBs…I almost spit up my morning cereal while reading this:


Only beginning of Luck-Tannehill rivalry - AFC East Blog - ESPN

If by twilight you mean, the 2 of the 4 top QBs in the NFL and both in the hunt for postseason victories, then yes…TB and PM are in the twilight.

damn, they make it seem like brady has gray hair and needs a walker.

brady could play into his 40s (if the patriots don't trade him him first)

 

[Kontradiction]

Nice redirect. You started out saying that PM has vastly outplayed TB, has a completely different offense and has faced more adversity and the problem is that you make it sound like a no-brainer when it is anything but.





Saying "again" doesn't add more weight or increase the value of your argument. It just shows that you have nothing else to add.

The Colts went to the SB in 2009 which PM had a his disposal a more diverse passing attack than 07 or before. Harrison has been irrelevent since 06.

No losing battle here. Again, nice assumption but you are still wrong.





JMcD was OC from 05-08. You seem to not acknowledge that. There is a tremendous amount of familiarity and report BB has with JMcD.

Passing yardage? Who cares. If you want to get right down to it, wins, QBR and QB efficiency are all that matter.





I have no idea if you are or not but you sure come across like one.




So you are saying Fox and McCoy haven't added wrinkles to the Colts system in DEN? You can have the same base system and make changes to plays and the scheme.





If DEN wins they'll have the same record.

Did PM pad his stats vs SD? vs NE? Vs Pitt? Atl? HOU? Padding stats isn't when you lose by less than a TD and scoring in the 4th qtr.

Manning looked bad until the 4th quarter again yesterday. Do you still wish to argue this? Brady has thrown three less interceptions this season while having more attempts than Manning. Further, the Patriots are playing the tougher schedule of the two teams, facing a first place AFC schedule and an NFC schedule against a division that has the best +/- of any division in the NFL... all with the factors noted previously.

 

[PittPatriot]

damn, they make it seem like brady has gray hair and needs a walker.

brady could play into his 40s (if the patriots don't trade him him first)

Brady has great hair and needs a Welker?

Actually, what surprises me most is how fast people are "crowning" Luck and Tannehill. It is exciting to get young talent in and bid farewell to the Kerry Collins, Jason Campbells, and David Garrads.

 

[coolguy]

Manning looked bad until the 4th quarter again yesterday. Do you still wish to argue this? Brady has thrown three less interceptions this season while having more attempts than Manning. Further, the Patriots are playing the tougher schedule of the two teams, facing a first place AFC schedule and an NFC schedule against a division that has the best +/- of any division in the NFL... all with the factors noted previously.

People are just impress peyton is doing this so soon after missing a year.

Most fans thought his career was over

 

[Kontradiction]

People are just impress peyton is doing this so soon after missing a year.

Most fans thought his career was over

That was a bad assumption. He entered a team with, possibly, the most talent he's been surrounded with on all three phases in his entire career. If that's the basis for arguing that Brady hasn't outplayed him, then other posters may want to re-think their position.

IMO, the "new offense!" thing is overplayed. It's the same exact timing offense that he's in with some of the best players surrounding him since Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were in their primes. Thomas is emerging as one of the NFL's better WR's, Decker is solid in all phases, and he has a couple of guys with a lot of continuity coming over from Indy. Further, his offensive line hasn't been interchangeable as the Pats has. And, even with all that considered, the Broncos offense simply hasn't looked good at times this season until teams go into a soft zone in the 4th quarter where Manning begins to pick them apart. "Vastly" may be a stretch, but anybody that's watched these two quarterbacks play knows that Brady has outplayed Manning. At that, I don't think it's even arguable unless you're being a contrarian for the hell of it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If it's for this year then everyone needs to reconsider their lists.

2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Everyone, for sure... Because it's not just about stats. Non elite players periodically and even frequently amass some of those.

NFL Total Quarterback Rating - National Football League - ESPN

Although this metric is far from perfect as it admittedly can't measure or quantify the value of decision making at the LOS, which often tends to seperate the elite from the merely talented.

On plays when the QB just hands off to a running back, we didn't assign any credit to the QB. Our NFL experts did suggest that some QBs are very good at interpreting defenses pre-snap and identifying better holes for their backs. However, they also told us it would be nearly impossible to incorporate.

Elite QB play is kind of like pornography, hard to precisely define but you know it when you see it.

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Brees

Roethlisberger
Eli

The top 4 are consistently elite although everyone has their bad days.

The other two are intermittently elite performers which is why they have two rings apiece, although they have bad stretches almost every season (or in Eli's case at times in almost every game). Ben's strength against one opponent can be his weakness against another. Both tend to get tripped up in the belief they can do too much.

There are lots of guys knocking on the door or hanging on the fringes. Some are pretty talented but they haven't proven it will translate yet. Others are moreso beneficiaries or in rare cases victims of circumstance. They can go to the pro bowl one year and be asscanned the next...

Then of course there is Sanchez...he's in a class by himself, unless you count his backup who is also in one.

 

[coolguy]

That was a bad assumption. He entered a team with, possibly, the most talent he's been surrounded with on all three phases in his entire career. If that's the basis for arguing that Brady hasn't outplayed him, then other posters may want to re-think their position.

IMO, the "new offense!" thing is overplayed. It's the same exact timing offense that he's in with some of the best players surrounding him since Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were in their primes. Thomas is emerging as one of the NFL's better WR's, Decker is solid in all phases, and he has a couple of guys with a lot of continuity coming over from Indy. Further, his offensive line hasn't been interchangeable as the Pats has. And, even with all that considered, the Broncos offense simply hasn't looked good at times this season until teams go into a soft zone in the 4th quarter where Manning begins to pick them apart. "Vastly" may be a stretch, but anybody that's watched these two quarterbacks play knows that Brady has outplayed Manning. At that, I don't think it's even arguable unless you're being a contrarian for the hell of it.

it's a combination of
Peyton missing a year
peyton joining a new team
peyton comeback from a serious* neck injury
peytn establishing chemistry with the offense

His supporters have become stronger than ever.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Peyton manning is better than brees.

i always laugh when people say eli is better than peyton
When teams play the giants they mainly game plan to stop the pass rush
When teams play the giants/broncos they game plan to stop peyton
Getting pressure on brady is the focus when teams play the patriots.


I still think rivers is a better qb than eli, it's just that nerv turner's aura is holding him and his team back.

I think Norv has born the lions share of the blame for a situation where Rivers clearly deserved a nearly equal share. They say he never studies, has about 8 kids already and has settled into the gunslinger mentality where they believe they can take the field on Sunday and just sling it. His overall decision making and in game comportment and side arm mechanics are enough to torpedo the talent they've surrounded him with before bad coaching even enters the equation.

Eli was actually predicted to be a better QB than Peyton from a measurables standpoint. He's just never had the level of mental acuity (or the capacity to develop it that in Peyton's and Tom's cases) or command of the game and team that flows from it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sorry to divert from the goal of this thread but I did not want to start a new one. Since we are talking about Top QBs…I almost spit up my morning cereal while reading this:


Only beginning of Luck-Tannehill rivalry - AFC East Blog - ESPN

If by twilight you mean, the 2 of the 4 top QBs in the NFL and both in the hunt for postseason victories, then yes…TB and PM are in the twilight.

I think ultimately Luck will prove to be legit. The rest are still flavor of the months. Even RGIII for all his athletic ability. Need to see what kids do when opponents get some film on them and an off season to adapt and adjust. Then you have to see if the kid can match their adjustments and adapt further. Cam Newton was the next coming of Mike Vick a year ago. Actually... Stafford and Bradford were the obvious heirs apparent not so long ago. There will always be guys that flash early, flash late, show flashes... Some hang around for a while teasing yet never reach elite status let alone consistently over the course of a decade. There will be new rivalries, just don't think anything on the horizen to date will approach the level that Brady and Manning have. Part of which stemmed from the stability of their respective organizations over the same time frame (which the combination of QB'ing and HC-GM'ing stability had a lot to do with).

 

[Kontradiction]

I think ultimately Luck will prove to be legit. The rest are still flavor of the months. Even RGIII for all his athletic ability. Need to see what kids do when opponents get some film on them and an off season to adapt and adjust. Then you have to see if the kid can match their adjustments and adapt further. Cam Newton was the next coming of Mike Vick a year ago. Actually... Stafford and Bradford were the obvious heirs apparent not so long ago. There will always be guys that flash early, flash late, show flashes... Some hang around for a while teasing yet never reach elite status let alone consistently over the course of a decade. There will be new rivalries, just don't think anything on the horizen to date will approach the level that Brady and Manning have. Part of which stemmed from the stability of their respective organizations over the same time frame (which the combination of QB'ing and HC-GM'ing stability had a lot to do with).

Eh, Stafford isn't bad. His O-Line has trouble protecting him from time to time. I had to sit through the Jags-Lions game yesterday and, at times, the Detroit O-Line made the Jags front seven look like the '85 Bears.

 

[ausbacker]

it's a combination of
Peyton missing a year
peyton joining a new team
peyton comeback from a serious* neck injury
peytn establishing chemistry with the offense

His supporters have become stronger than ever.

What it shows you is how wasted Decker and Thomas would have been if the Broncos kept Tecan'throw.

 

[coolguy]

I think Norv has born the lions share of the blame for a situation where Rivers clearly deserved a nearly equal share. They say he never studies, has about 8 kids already and has settled into the gunslinger mentality where they believe they can take the field on Sunday and just sling it. His overall decision making and in game comportment and side arm mechanics are enough to torpedo the talent they've surrounded him with before bad coaching even enters the equation.

Eli was actually predicted to be a better QB than Peyton from a measurables standpoint. He's just never had the level of mental acuity (or the capacity to develop it that in Peyton's and Tom's cases) or command of the game and team that flows from it.

That's because norv is a pushover and let's the team do what ever they want . Philip and the chargers looked more comfortable under marty than they do now.

 

[FCB02062]

Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez
Russell Wilson
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Kevin Kolb

What do these guys have in common? They all suck as quarterbacks but either a.) had their best day this season against the Pats, b.) beat the Pats, or c.) threw for 350 yards against the Pats or d.) some combination of a & b

 

[coolguy]

What it shows you is how wasted Decker and Thomas would have been if the Broncos kept Teincompletion.

Tebow has the misfortune of being a young qb in this WIN NOW OR BUST era. In the old days he would have had to sit and learn how to play the instead of being thrown into nfl fire prematurely.

The offense also sucked with Kyle orton

 

[ausbacker]

Tebow has the misfortune of being a young qb in this WIN NOW OR BUST era. In the old days he would have had to sit and learn how to play the instead of being thrown into nfl fire prematurely.

The offense also sucked with Kyle orton

Tebow's problem (IMO) is he's a crap Quarterback. As a footballer, he's very good.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Matt Ryan is pretty good and his playoff losses are a little overblown. He is kind of like that movie good luck chuck. They consistently lose to the eventual nfc superbowl representative. Seriously, instead of finding a husband like that damn movie after giving the falcons a good pounding they go to the superbowl. Cards in 08, Packers in 10, and Giants in 11. If this happens this year i am officially taking credit for noticing this trend first.

 

[Sweet Chin Music33]

I went down to 6, as I believe there are 2 categories.

Elite:
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Peyton Manning
Very Good:
4. Drew Brees
5. Eli Manning
6. Rapistburger

After those 6, everyone falls in to above average, average and below average.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Manning looked bad until the 4th quarter again yesterday. Do you still wish to argue this? .

Um. They won and after the two picks and being down 20-17, he led them to two TDs. I think it was also the first time all year he threw a 2nd 1/2 INTs all year

Brady has thrown three less interceptions this season while having more attempts than Manning. Further, the Patriots are playing the tougher schedule of the two teams, facing a first place AFC schedule and an NFC schedule against a division that has the best +/- of any division in the NFL... all with the factors noted previously.

Please break down for me the defensive rankings of the teams Manning has played. The results are pretty interesting.