Wes Welker says he has nine and a half million reasons to play

[Joker]

What games where Gronk and Hernz on the field together? maybe I missed that.

uh...look, that's a tad ridiculous...instead of "what games" how about I post the % on the field snaps to give you the idea...

A look at the final snap counts for offensive skill-position players (minus quarterbacks) in the 2011 Patriots season, while analyzing what it means (as charted in the press box, small margin for error):

TE Rob Gronkowski -- 94.6%
WR Wes Welker -- 89.2%
TE Aaron Hernandez -- 77.1%
WR Deion Branch -- 76.0%

as you can see, the Gronk played near 95% and AHern played 77% of the snaps, meaning the both of them played together on the field at least 70% of the time.

 

[pherein]

Don't forget about Shane Vereen too, Pherein.

He was graded by many as one of the top 3 RB's coming out of the draft last year, and was a 2nd round pick for us.

Vereen has the potential to be able to catch about 20-25 balls this year, depending upon how often they use him, etc. He also has the ability to take it to the house with his speed.

I think his TC and beginning of the season injury really set him back last year, where he was only able to get limited knowledge of the playbook and limited reps; this year I think we'll see quite a lot more of him.

For a team that usually passes about 60% of the time on average, having the following RB's/FB's compete in TC should be plenty, as I would expect either 4 or 5 RB/FB on the 53 man roster:

--Ridley
--Vereen
--Woodhead
--Addai
--Larsen
--Kettani
--Bolden
--Faulk

Love the RB talk buddy, hopefully we can have a better ypc average this year, thus making the rushing game more effective.

I love Shane Vereen . He even has the name. This boy can catch. To me he's a pure HB with speed, might be a perfect flex back, but no power. A mean front 4 will shut this guy down. I really love the way he uses his hands. He could really be something if trained well.
I think if you run him against the wall he will sputter and die, but NE uses him for open field and screens, he could become dangerous.

I also think woodhead is underrated. He has the same speed off the mark as sproles, if you watch. There is no fear in woodhead. ID like to see him used like we do sproles. Just give him a shot. Sproles has power and speed, little movement. They are really not that different.

Im very excited about what BB is doing, and he's dipping into the RB core.

If
Vereen = a flex back
Woodhead = a sproles
Addai = a limited thomas, I don't think he can run up the middle any more. I might be wrong, but he can do everything else

Thats pretty significant .
Im with you. Im not surprised BB is going this way, but its very cool.
Same,RB's are so fun to talk about. Unlike most positions the greats show in the worst circumstances. Sanders with no OL on the lions, perfect. E.Smith, with the best OL in the NFL for years, beat his record. Pretty easy to figure out who is the better RB,lol

 

[pherein]

uh...look, that's a tad ridiculous...instead of "what games" how about I post the % on the field snaps to give you the idea...

A look at the final snap counts for offensive skill-position players (minus quarterbacks) in the 2011 Patriots season, while analyzing what it means (as charted in the press box, small margin for error):

TE Rob Gronkowski -- 94.6%
WR Wes Welker -- 89.2%
TE Aaron Hernandez -- 77.1%
WR Deion Branch -- 76.0%

as you can see, the Gronk played near 95% and AHern played 77% of the snaps, meaning the both of them played together on the field at least 70% of the time.

So, you had 2 TE's in 70% of the time ? Wouldn't that mean there was a problem in the WR area?

 

[Sciz]

I'll take this a step further. I am excluding the last 17 plays from week 2, all of week 3, and all of week 4 for Hernandez's MCL injury, the last 9 snaps of the Divisional game (Hernandez concussion), and the last 9 snaps from the AFC championship plus the entire Super Bowl for Gronkowski's ankle sprain.

In the other 16 games (minus 35 snaps), there were a total of 1105 snaps. Gronkowski played 1063 (96.2%), and Hernandez played 967 (87.5%). And going game-by-game and finding the minimum number of snaps they could have been on the field together (GronkSnaps+HernandezSnaps-TotalSnaps), I got a total of 925.

So excluding the three and a half games or so where either Gronkowski or Hernandez was dealing with a known injury, they were on the field together for at least 83.7% of the offensive snaps.

And it's also worth mentioning that in the 115 snaps of playoff offensive football before Gronk's injury, both tight ends were on the field for every single one.

 

[Joker]

read the ESPN link for yourself...

Offensive snaps - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Joker]

So, you had 2 TE's in 70% of the time ? Wouldn't that mean there was a problem in the WR area?

well,that's ONE way of looking at it...Patriots fans prefer to think there was a problem in the opposition's backfield trying to cover both of them at the same time , along with Welker and Branch.The final season record and the playoff run to the Super Bowl sort of buttresses this viewpoint although a very vocal minority of the Pats fan base thinks otherwise.

 

[Sciz]

So, you had 2 TE's in 70% of the time ? Wouldn't that mean there was a problem in the WR area?

If you had a second Jimmy Graham, you'd want both of them on the field at the same time too. Gronkowski had the best season by a tight end ever last season. Hernandez' was in the 40-50 range all time statistically, and would've been closer to 20 if he had played in all 16 games. There was no reason to take either of them off the field.

 

[pherein]

So, you had 2 TE's in 70% of the time ? Wouldn't that mean there was a problem in the WR area?

well,that's ONE way of looking at it...Patriots fans prefer to think there was a problem in the opposition's backfield trying to cover both of them at the same time , along with Welker and Branch.The final season record and the playoff run to the Super Bowl sort of buttresses this viewpoint although a very vocal minority of the Pats fan base thinks otherwise.

Sorry and or RB area also?

Its smart for BB to put his best guys in , but those best guys are not WR's or RB's. Does not Hernz in with Gronk have to take a FB spot and kill a WR spot? Sorry for not knowing this but its something we would never do.

 

[pherein]

If you had a second Jimmy Graham, you'd want both of them on the field at the same time too. Gronkowski had the best season by a tight end ever last season. Hernandez' was in the 40-50 range all time statistically, and would've been closer to 20 if he had played in all 16 games. There was no reason to take either of them off the field.

True but, our second TE D. Thomas was a Pat. I think everyone knows he is equal if not better than Hernz. Not better than gronk. But we don't need him in, we have other options. Hernz is no gronk or graham, I think. I might be wrong.

 

[Joker]

True but, our second TE D. Thomas was a Pat. I think everyone knows he is equal if not better than Hernz. Not better than gronk. But we don't need him in, we have other options. Hernz is no gronk or graham, I think. I might be wrong.

not quite familiar with Thomas's 2011 season but he put up better numbers than THIS???

RK PLAYER TEAM REC TAR YDS AVG TD LONG 20+ YDS/G FUM YAC 1DN
31 Aaron Hernandez 79 113 910 11.5 7 46 12 65.0 1 519 46

 

[Sciz]

True but, our second TE D. Thomas was a Pat. I think everyone knows he is equal if not better than Hernz. Not better than gronk. But we don't need him in, we have other options. Hernz is no gronk or graham, I think. I might be wrong.

This past season, Hernandez had the 41st most yards from scrimmage in a season by a tight end in NFL history despite missing two games. He's not Gronk or Graham, but oh gosh I hope you're kidding about David Thomas

 

[pherein]

not quite familiar with Thomas's 2011 season but he put up better numbers than THIS???

RK PLAYER TEAM REC TAR YDS AVG TD LONG 20+ YDS/G FUM YAC 1DN
31 Aaron Hernandez 79 113 910 11.5 7 46 12 65.0 1 519 46

Thats not quite fair, he's all you have for a 2nd or 3rd receiver but

David Thomas Stats - New Orleans Saints - ESPN

is pretty fair Thomas is just as good

 

[Joker]

Herno put up 100+ more yards receiving in 2011 than Dave Thomas has amassed in his CAREER with N.O.

AHern was the 31st ranked receiver in the NFL last season...Dave Thomas 393rd...he was injured however...but in 2010 he had 30 receptiions in 13 games and 2009 he had 35 in 15 games...not even in AHern's area code...

 

[pherein]

This past season, Hernandez had the 41st most yards from scrimmage in a season by a tight end in NFL history despite missing two games. He's not Gronk or Graham, but oh gosh I hope you're kidding about David Thomas

Hernz is good , "Ive been watching him, but no Im not kidding,lol. Difference is you need Hernz as a WR , and we really don't need Thomas so the numbers get messed up. But Thomas performed exactly like he should, or like a hertz, when needed. Sometimes better than shockey, and thats saying something.
Id put David Thomas against Aaron Hernandez any day. I think they are pretty equal.

 

[Sciz]

Hernz is good , "Ive been watching him, but no Im not kidding,lol. Difference is you need Hernz as a WR , and we really don't need Thomas so the numbers get messed up. But Thomas performed exactly like he should, or like a hertz, when needed. Sometimes better than shockey, and thats saying something.
Id put David Thomas against Aaron Hernandez any day. I think they are pretty equal.

To prevent myself from being banned indefinitely, I shall refrain from responding to this post.

 

[pherein]

Herno put up 100+ more yards receiving in 2011 than Dave Thomas has amassed in his CAREER with N.O.

AHern was the 31st ranked receiver in the NFL last season...Dave Thomas 393rd...he was injured however...but in 2010 he had 30 receptiions in 13 games and 2009 he had 35 in 15 games...not even in AHern's area code...

because Brady had to pass to him. Your forgetting we don't need a Hernz. He would be lost on our team, like thomas. Even if Graham was hurt.
We can field Moore, Colston, herderson, meachem, and leave the TE blank, we didn't need it. God help your #'s if your the 2nd TE on the saints. But he catches everything.

 

[pherein]

To prevent myself from being banned indefinitely, I shall refrain from responding to this post.

Both have exactly the same stats in the combine. Both played well when used.
Really don't see a difference . Like Hernz is something special ? I don't buy that. As much as I don't buy Thomas is. Difference is you had no option but to use your 2nd TE. And for god sakes why would we ?
Thats what WR's are for, unless you don't have that option.

Its just supply and demand. Why would any team keep a 2nd TE in the game 80% ? is the real question. It means there is a problem.

 

[mayoclinic]

True but, our second TE D. Thomas was a Pat. I think everyone knows he is equal if not better than Hernz. Not better than gronk. But we don't need him in, we have other options. Hernz is no gronk or graham, I think. I might be wrong.

Hernz is good , "Ive been watching him, but no Im not kidding,lol. Difference is you need Hernz as a WR , and we really don't need Thomas so the numbers get messed up. But Thomas performed exactly like he should, or like a hertz, when needed. Sometimes better than shockey, and thats saying something.
Id put David Thomas against Aaron Hernandez any day. I think they are pretty equal.

I think you're way off on this one, my friend. Regardless of combine numbers, Thomas and Hernandez are entirely different players, and they are not equal in an sense of the word.

Thomas is exactly what you say he is - a very good #2 TE. The Pats drafted him and he didn't develop as we expected but he's turned out very nicely for you.

Hernandez is not a #2 anything. He is one of the most dangerous mismatches in the league. He's closer to Gronk in that regard than to Thomas, though his style is completely different. Jermichael Finley is the "TE" who comes closest to Hernandez, but Finley doesn't have Hernandez' movement skills or ability to line up in the backfield. Hernandez is just a unique weapon, and I think he would be a huge asset to any offense.

Hernandez is one of our 3 best offensive weapons, along with Welker and Gronk. If he were on the Saints, he would be one of your 3 best offensive weapons, along with Sproles and Graham. He's better than Pierre Thomas. He's better than Marques Colston. And I love both of those guys.

 

[Rossmci90]

I can not quite believe what i'm reading.

David Thomas is as good if not better than Hernandez?

Wow.

 

[Deus Irae]

I would never put down Welker. Think you ministered that. Ive never thought Moss was better than Welker. But your other WR's Welker and Moss of old, where not the best.



Well not completely accurate. Receiving yardage dosnt determine favoritism right?
Is it not how many times a QB throws to a player? Not the yards the make.

2006 Reggie Bush
2006 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com
2007 Colston
2007 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com
2008 Lance Moore, Colston out 5 games.
2008 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com
2009 Colston
2009 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com
2010 Colston, but Moore out for 7 games and in second, and Bush out 10 games
2010 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com
2011 Graham
2011 New Orleans Saints Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Colstons not Brees's favorite. 3 seasons, and its not by a large margin. If you look how the ball is spread. Difference is its hard to cover colston, so even when he's not open he's open. Brees passes to everyone, and that kills the double on colston.
If Colston is one on one, only makes sense to put it up to him.




Well they won't all make 900+ yards this year. I think the pats will learn that with lots of talent at WR, not everyone gets the ball. Brady with more weapons will just become more lethal, and spread the ball.
WR = Lloyd, Branch = perfect, very impressed, good
WR = Welker = best WR, I think in the NFL
WR= Gaffney = ?. I know the hype is there, just want to see it
TE = Gronk +Hernandez = same position

In my mind that leaves 2 WR positions unknown.

WR = M. Colston, A. Arrington =Both Very good
WR =L. Moore, C. Roby = Both Very good
WR = D. Henderson, Morton = Very good, and ?
TE = J. Graham, D. Thomas = Both very good

So where is your depth if Lloyd goes out? or even Welker is hurt ?
Personally I agree with you. This is one of the best WR,TE line ups I've seen in NE, and Im pretty excited. I mean, you make a great point.
and I really love woodhead.




OH , I know you were not. I just don't think its as important as the other things.




If Moore was with Pats instead of Welker, I guaranty he would come close matching his stats. Moore has the exact brain and no gifts. Just sticky hands, perfect routes, and an uncanny ability to get open and never quit on a play. Moore would have worked out just fine in NE. There not on the same level because Brees has to many targets.
But Moore has been out a lot , so I think Welker is much toupher.

I looked at this and was going to make a reply, but you're trying to play shady games by including your RB as a WR, and I'm not going to play that game.

Suffice it to say that the numbers show, conclusively, that Brees has a favorite, that the favorite is Colston, and that Moore has never been close to the target that Welker is.

As for where the depth is, I listed it. Lloyd/Welker/Branch/Gaffney - 3 900+ yards receivers and a 700+ yards receiver. Even your favorite team, New Orleans, doesn't match that.