Jonathan Cooper released

[long distance]

So what team do you think was trying to sign Woody Hamlton that caused Patriots to promote him and demote Cooper?

Team Vincent “injured back“ Valentine

 

[borg]

You can't win if you don't buy a ticket. without high draft picks, the Pats have to gamble on upside sometimes IMO.

Given Cooper's disappointing stint in Arizona, it surprised me that BB and company bypassed their typical "it is what it is" emotionless evaluation of players. Factor in his injury history...it was a puzzling player choice.
How many teams offered NE compensation for a year of Chandler Jones? I would think multiple teams especially if the cost was a low 2nd rounder plus a "throw in" as some feel the need to label him after the fact. But NE dealt with Arizona and it likely had most to do with acquiring a 2nd piece without spending limited draft resources to fill a huge hole in their worst grouping in 2015...OL. Could NE have received a higher draft pick without a 2nd piece added? My gut says HELL YES....and if that was the case....
This was whiff.
Conjecture is fun.
WHIFFFFFFFFFFF

 

[long distance]

EDIT:

 

[patfanken]

Right now, his 2.3 million still counts against the Pat's cap. So basically they cut a guy and received ZERO cap relief for cutting him, which of course means the cut was performance related and not financially related.

You make that sound like this is breaking news. Anyone who actually READS the threads here knew that on the day they traded for him. We all knew that his salary was guaranteed for this year. So WTF. Are you going to tell me that the sun will rise in the east in your next post.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I personally feel a 27 year old super bowl winning elite pass rusher who gets 13-15 sacks a season, makes game changing plays, is a vocal team leader, and who puts a ton of pressure on the QB should warrant much more than just a late second rounder. I think we could have gotten more. I may be wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.

 

[jimnance]

Nope, good trade for both teams. Best kind of trade.

I agree "at the time the trade was made". At the time looked like an even swap. But once BB turned that 2nd rounder into Thuney and Mitchell-No doubt the Pats got the better of the deal. Both Thuney and mitchell could very well be as good or better than c.jones. That doesnt even call into account the ability to sign the Big 3 on D-which was the most important part of the trade. When peolpe do their redrafts of 2016 in a few years-you might well see mitchell going 1st round.

 

[jimnance]

I personally feel a 27 year old super bowl winning elite pass rusher who gets 13-15 sacks a season, makes game changing plays, is a vocal team leader, and who puts a ton of pressure on the QB should warrant much more than just a late second rounder. I think we could have gotten more. I may be wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.

Sorry Chandler was a good player-but he is not "elite". You cant be that inconsistent and be "elite". Sheard was the best passrusher on the team last year AND he could rush from INSIDE-something which cjones sucked at. And sacks are an incredibly overrated stat. Pressures are more valuable.

 

[oldrover]

Well, you'll never be president now...











Just a joke, people. Nothing to lose sleep over.

Yep. President is out.










First Man, though, maybe...











( just kidding as well...)

 

[long distance]

I personally feel a 27 year old super bowl winning elite pass rusher who gets 13-15 sacks a season, makes game changing plays, is a vocal team leader, and who puts a ton of pressure on the QB should warrant much more than just a late second rounder. I think we could have gotten more. I may be wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.

I like CJ. I watched him a bit this year. Sacks should be just one part of his game. He is still very good at them. On the other hand he still looks lost half of the time .. and gives a lot of yards on missed play/position. That's just an impression. And one could hardly argue that AZ DL is stronger and more solid or simply better than last year ..

 

[JMC00]

I personally feel a 27 year old super bowl winning elite pass rusher who gets 13-15 sacks a season, makes game changing plays, is a vocal team leader, and who puts a ton of pressure on the QB should warrant much more than just a late second rounder. I think we could have gotten more. I may be wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.

Well no you are wrong.

First off, Jones is not elite.

Secondly, Jones has never gotten 13-15 sacks in his career. His career high was 12.5 in '15

Thirdly, he is not a team leader. Team leaders don't end up naked at the police staton at 3AM the week before a playoff game after smoking synthetic marijuana

Fourthly, it was posted earlier today but Jones was like #4 or #5 on the team in pressure percentage last year, not that good when he's suppose to be your #1 DE

As for his value. NO Team was gonna use a 1st round pick on a guy that had 1 year left on his contract. Just wasn't gonna happen. Jones' value was in the 2nd round.

Which let's take away picks #59-#51 and #48 & 49 as Pats were never trading with the Chiefs, Steelers, Bengals, Texans, Bills or Colts

So let's move onto the most likely teams the Pats could have traded with in the 2nd round

Tennesse (#33 2nd pick in 2nd round), Tampa Bay(#39), Chicago(#41), Detroit(#46), New Orleans (#47) and Atlanta (#50) all passed on him

Tennessee's current GM is Jon Robinson, a Belichick disciple, worked for the Pats 11 years. I'm 100% positive Bill rang him up

Tampa Bay's GM is Jason Licht, another Belichick disciple whose made deals with Bill before

Chicago, well seeing that the Pats traded for Bennett 1 day after Jones was dealt to Arizona think I'd bet anything Bill likely offered them Jones. My guess was the offer was Jones and the 5th for Bennett and the 2nd.

Detroit, they hired a new GM this year, Bob Quinn, another Belichick disciple that was with NE for 15 years.

New Orleans, Belichick and Payton obviously have a very good relationship and Payton needed to improve the defense. So i'm sure Bill inquired.

Atlanta, Dimitroff and Pioli, 2 more Belichick disciples that i'm sure Bill gave a call to and the Falcons needed defense.

Ravens, Giants, Jaguars and Dolphins were the other teams in the upper half of the 2nd but for obvious reasons those deals would have never happened. Ravens and Dolphins are rivals and Giants spent a ton of money on defense in Free Agency and Jaguars also spent a ton of money.


That leaves

Cowboys #34
Chargers #35
49ers #37


Chargers and 49ers weren't spending a high 2nd round pick on a 1 year player

Cowboys were really the only option of a higher pick, but the thing here was this was pre- DeMarcus Lawrence suspension and before Randy Gregory's suspension went from 4 games to 10.

So looking that i'd say the Patriots took the best offer for Chandler Jones especially when 4 teams that have Belichick disciples as GMs and all need defensive help didn't trade for him.

 

[aluminum seats]

I agree "at the time the trade was made". At the time looked like an even swap. But once BB turned that 2nd rounder into Thuney and Mitchell-No doubt the Pats got the better of the deal. Both Thuney and mitchell could very well be as good or better than c.jones. That doesnt even call into account the ability to sign the Big 3 on D-which was the most important part of the trade. When peolpe do their redrafts of 2016 in a few years-you might well see mitchell going 1st round.

The Pats can be happy with the deal. I'm just saying Arizona made out fine too.

 

[jimnance]

The Pats can be happy with the deal. I'm just saying Arizona made out fine too.

Oh yeah, i agree on both counts. I probably couldve used better phraseology than Bb raped zona. He really didnt. They got a decent return for what they gave up. But the pats got a far better return imo-once BB turned that 2nd rounder into 2 valuable assets. Some of that is future projection-but whose the last wr we felt as good about as mitchell? He could well turn out to be a 1st round value in a few years. His production wont be huge right away-obviously with je,gronk,bennet,lewis,hogan,dola-but i feel really good about this kid.

 

[aluminum seats]

Well no you are wrong.

First off, Jones is not elite.

Secondly, Jones has never gotten 13-15 sacks in his career. His career high was 12.5 in '15

Thirdly, he is not a team leader. Team leaders don't end up naked at the police staton at 3AM the week before a playoff game after smoking synthetic marijuana

Fourthly, it was posted earlier today but Jones was like #4 or #5 on the team in pressure percentage last year, not that good when he's suppose to be your #1 DE

As for his value. NO Team was gonna use a 1st round pick on a guy that had 1 year left on his contract. Just wasn't gonna happen. Jones' value was in the 2nd round.

Which let's take away picks #59-#51 and #48 & 49 as Pats were never trading with the Chiefs, Steelers, Bengals, Texans, Bills or Colts

So let's move onto the most likely teams the Pats could have traded with in the 2nd round

Tennesse (#33 2nd pick in 2nd round), Tampa Bay(#39), Chicago(#41), Detroit(#46), New Orleans (#47) and Atlanta (#50) all passed on him

Tennessee's current GM is Jon Robinson, a Belichick disciple, worked for the Pats 11 years. I'm 100% positive Bill rang him up

Tampa Bay's GM is Jason Licht, another Belichick disciple whose made deals with Bill before

Chicago, well seeing that the Pats traded for Bennett 1 day after Jones was dealt to Arizona think I'd bet anything Bill likely offered them Jones. My guess was the offer was Jones and the 5th for Bennett and the 2nd.

Detroit, they hired a new GM this year, Bob Quinn, another Belichick disciple that was with NE for 15 years.

New Orleans, Belichick and Payton obviously have a very good relationship and Payton needed to improve the defense. So i'm sure Bill inquired.

Atlanta, Dimitroff and Pioli, 2 more Belichick disciples that i'm sure Bill gave a call to and the Falcons needed defense.

Ravens, Giants, Jaguars and Dolphins were the other teams in the upper half of the 2nd but for obvious reasons those deals would have never happened. Ravens and Dolphins are rivals and Giants spent a ton of money on defense in Free Agency and Jaguars also spent a ton of money.


That leaves

Cowboys #34
Chargers #35
49ers #37


Chargers and 49ers weren't spending a high 2nd round pick on a 1 year player

Cowboys were really the only option of a higher pick, but the thing here was this was pre- DeMarcus Lawrence suspension and before Randy Gregory's suspension went from 4 games to 10.

So looking that i'd say the Patriots took the best offer for Chandler Jones especially when 4 teams that have Belichick disciples as GMs and all need defensive help didn't trade for him.

Wow, A for effort on this post

 

[jimnance]

Wow, A for effort on this post

Man, I feel like I just worked out for 6 hours after reading his post. Mercy! But he made his point.

 

[jah]

I personally feel a 27 year old super bowl winning elite pass rusher who gets 13-15 sacks a season, makes game changing plays, is a vocal team leader, and who puts a ton of pressure on the QB should warrant much more than just a late second rounder. I think we could have gotten more. I may be wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.

It's a good thing Chandler Jones wasn't that player for us.

 

[ashley]

Really disappointed to hear about Cooper, I thought he was just starting to get healthy and I kind of was looking forward to seeing how he would do next to Cannon and Andrews.

 

[The Gr8est]

Really disappointed by this, but it makes sense. He hasn't been healthy and they seem to really like every young kid on the back of the roster that they have.

Once he injured his foot in camp before there was even contact, is where I lost hope for him.

I was really rooting for him but we never got any positive reports on him after that. Even once he started practice he seemed like an after thought.

A real shame that it looks like he's just the next in line of "can't miss" prospects who miss.

I expect a team like the Rats, or another team that can't resist shiny names, to claim him, but if Scar can't make you a player, it isn't likely someone else can.

 

[PScottman]

I personally feel a 27 year old super bowl winning elite pass rusher who gets 13-15 sacks a season, makes game changing plays, is a vocal team leader, and who puts a ton of pressure on the QB should warrant much more than just a late second rounder. I think we could have gotten more. I may be wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.

...and who puts a ton of pressure on the QB...and was brought in for suspicion of illegal substance abuse last season, and tailed off his production both at the end of each season he played and against elite competition every year in the league.

If you're going to list the good, you have to list the bad too.

 

[Fencer]

Someone had to go. It's not always about who you want on your team, in general. Sometimes, it's about what you need at the moment.

Actually, it's about both. If you want to keep them on the team badly enough, you make needed roster room in some other way, or you get by without the short term benefits of the other roster move you want to make.

 

[Fencer]

He would have easily netted the Pat's a 3rd round comp pick, plus another year of his impact plays while Brady is still the QB. It was a awful trade, now that Cooper was cut, the cap savings (between what they would have had to pay Chandler, and the dead money if Cooper) is less than 5 million, it becomes a God awful trade.

The Pats basically traded a year of Jones for a year of Bennett, coming out roughly equal in pick value (if one ignores the big time-value discount rate) and cap. (Don't Bennett and Cooper add roughly to Jones?)

Yeah, the Cooper part was a swing and a miss. So be it.

Bennett seems more likely to stay for another contract than Jones did, but that's just speculation on my part.