Jonathan Cooper released

[Fencer]

...and who puts a ton of pressure on the QB...and was brought in for suspicion of illegal substance abuse last season, and tailed off his production both at the end of each season he played and against elite competition every year in the league.

If you're going to list the good, you have to list the bad too.

Jones' early-season production sure isn't a guarantee of full-season performance.

 

[Fencer]

4 years of Thuney + 4 years of Mitchell + $5 million in cap space is still > 1 year of Jones + 2018 3rd Round Comp pick.

No chance I would reverse this trade even if I had the chance.

Right. If we judge the trade based on the fact that we know the Cooper gamble failed, then we should also take into account what we know about the picks.

 

[jboston19]

Once he injured his foot in camp before there was even contact, is where I lost hope for him.

I was really rooting for him but we never got any positive reports on him after that. Even once he started practice he seemed like an after thought.

A real shame that it looks like he's just the next in line of "can't miss" prospects who miss.

I expect a team like the Rats, or another team that can't resist shiny names, to claim him, but if Scar can't make you a player, it isn't likely someone else can.

I don't expect him to make it through waivers, either. Heck, Arizona may take him back. It is pretty damning he couldn't break through with Scar.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Well no you are wrong.

First off, Jones is not elite.

Secondly, Jones has never gotten 13-15 sacks in his career. His career high was 12.5 in '15

Thirdly, he is not a team leader. Team leaders don't end up naked at the police staton at 3AM the week before a playoff game after smoking synthetic marijuana

Fourthly, it was posted earlier today but Jones was like #4 or #5 on the team in pressure percentage last year, not that good when he's suppose to be your #1 DE

As for his value. NO Team was gonna use a 1st round pick on a guy that had 1 year left on his contract. Just wasn't gonna happen. Jones' value was in the 2nd round.

Which let's take away picks #59-#51 and #48 & 49 as Pats were never trading with the Chiefs, Steelers, Bengals, Texans, Bills or Colts

So let's move onto the most likely teams the Pats could have traded with in the 2nd round

Tennesse (#33 2nd pick in 2nd round), Tampa Bay(#39), Chicago(#41), Detroit(#46), New Orleans (#47) and Atlanta (#50) all passed on him

Tennessee's current GM is Jon Robinson, a Belichick disciple, worked for the Pats 11 years. I'm 100% positive Bill rang him up

Tampa Bay's GM is Jason Licht, another Belichick disciple whose made deals with Bill before

Chicago, well seeing that the Pats traded for Bennett 1 day after Jones was dealt to Arizona think I'd bet anything Bill likely offered them Jones. My guess was the offer was Jones and the 5th for Bennett and the 2nd.

Detroit, they hired a new GM this year, Bob Quinn, another Belichick disciple that was with NE for 15 years.

New Orleans, Belichick and Payton obviously have a very good relationship and Payton needed to improve the defense. So i'm sure Bill inquired.

Atlanta, Dimitroff and Pioli, 2 more Belichick disciples that i'm sure Bill gave a call to and the Falcons needed defense.

Ravens, Giants, Jaguars and Dolphins were the other teams in the upper half of the 2nd but for obvious reasons those deals would have never happened. Ravens and Dolphins are rivals and Giants spent a ton of money on defense in Free Agency and Jaguars also spent a ton of money.


That leaves

Cowboys #34
Chargers #35
49ers #37


Chargers and 49ers weren't spending a high 2nd round pick on a 1 year player

Cowboys were really the only option of a higher pick, but the thing here was this was pre- DeMarcus Lawrence suspension and before Randy Gregory's suspension went from 4 games to 10.

So looking that i'd say the Patriots took the best offer for Chandler Jones especially when 4 teams that have Belichick disciples as GMs and all need defensive help didn't trade for him.

Jones not a team leader? I think his teammates would disagree with you



Watch this video. Showcases his elite talent and his leadership abilities on the field.


And listing all those teams and how you think there GMs reacted to Belichick calling? Impressive but not realistic. Unless you have a job working for a franchise in the NFL, you don't know if Belichick called or what the other GMs were thinking

 

[luuked]

Given Cooper's disappointing stint in Arizona, it surprised me that BB and company bypassed their typical "it is what it is" emotionless evaluation of players. Factor in his injury history...it was a puzzling player choice.
How many teams offered NE compensation for a year of Chandler Jones? I would think multiple teams especially if the cost was a low 2nd rounder plus a "throw in" as some feel the need to label him after the fact. But NE dealt with Arizona and it likely had most to do with acquiring a 2nd piece without spending limited draft resources to fill a huge hole in their worst grouping in 2015...OL. Could NE have received a higher draft pick without a 2nd piece added? My gut says HELL YES....and if that was the case....
This was whiff.
Conjecture is fun.
WHIFFFFFFFFFFF

I dont get why you even assume that it had to be the Pats that asked for Cooper to be included in the trade. It's at least as likely that Arizona wanted to dump his relatively high salary (early first round pick) since they reportedly planned to release him anyway.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

And listing all those teams and how you think there GMs reacted to Belichick calling? Impressive but not realistic. Unless you have a job working for a franchise in the NFL, you don't know if Belichick called or what the other GMs were thinking

Yet earlier you said you think we could have gotten more than a late 2nd rounder for Jones. (Though you did say you could be wrong)

Unless you have a job in the NFL, how do you know what other GMs are thinking to state we could have gotten more?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Yet earlier you said you think we could have gotten more than a late 2nd rounder for Jones. (Though you did say you could be wrong)

Unless you have a job in the NFL, how do you know what other GMs are thinking to state we could have gotten more?

I don't, but a guy who may lead the NFL in sacks, QB hurries this year, whose 27 years old coming off a 13 sack performance, don't you think that should generate a first round pick?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Jones not a team leader? I think his teammates would disagree with you



Watch this video. Showcases his elite talent and his leadership abilities on the field.


And listing all those teams and how you think there GMs reacted to Belichick calling? Impressive but not realistic. Unless you have a job working for a franchise in the NFL, you don't know if Belichick called or what the other GMs were thinking

Jones is a fine player and good teammate. I'm sure some of the younger players looked up to him.

He was never voted a team captain and leaders are responsible enough not to do spice to the point of being incoherent.

I question how much of a leader he really was

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Jones is a fine player and good teammate. I'm sure some of the younger players looked up to him.

He was never voted a team captain and leaders are responsible enough not to do spice to the point of being incoherent.

Thanks for your praise of jones, I was a huge fan of jones when we drafted him. He made the pro bowl for us, he came up through our system. No one else's. I do and always will love the guy. Let's give the man his due respect for all he did for our franchise. We won a Super Bowl with him as a starter.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I don't, but a guy who may lead the NFL in sacks, QB hurries this year, whose 27 years old coming off a 13 sack performance, don't you think that should generate a first round pick?

Sure, why not? But how often do players actually get traded for what we think their value is? It's incredibly rare, and that's over the entire league.

Also, if Jones could/should yield that much return, why didn't he? God himself couldn't convince me Belichick turned down a 1st rounder from someone (in a year we didn't have our own) to deal with Arizona because he wanted Cooper that badly.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Thanks for your praise of jones, I was a huge fan of jones when we drafted him. He made the pro bowl for us, he came up through our system. No one else's. I do and always will love the guy. Let's give the man his due respect for all he did for our franchise. We won a Super Bowl with him as a starter.

Jones was very good here. I don't have any major issues with him

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Sure, why not? But how often do players actually get traded for what we think their value is? It's incredibly rare, and that's over the entire league.

Also, if Jones could/should yield that much return, why didn't he? God himself couldn't convince me Belichick turned down a 1st rounder from someone (in a year we didn't have our own) to deal with Arizona because he wanted Cooper that badly.

I totally understands belichicks "trade a guy a year early before a year too late" beliefs...I just think when you have a star player in his prime and tom Brady is close to 40....keep those stars around tom for as long as possible. Let's win as many super bowls as we can before the window closes for tom. I understand the patriots think about the future "don't trade the future for a bowl of porridge"

 

[Deus Irae]

I totally understands belichicks "trade a guy a year early before a year too late" beliefs...I just think when you have a star player in his prime and tom Brady is close to 40....keep those stars around tom for as long as possible. Let's win as many super bowls as we can before the window closes for tom. I understand the patriots think about the future "don't trade the future for a bowl of porridge"

Chandler Jones was not the future.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I totally understands belichicks "trade a guy a year early before a year too late" beliefs...I just think when you have a star player in his prime and tom Brady is close to 40....keep those stars around tom for as long as possible. Let's win as many super bowls as we can before the window closes for tom. I understand the patriots think about the future "don't trade the future for a bowl of porridge"

But we didn't trade him for picks in the 2020 draft. Thuney is our starting LG and has proven very worthy of that spot. Mitchell showed nicely with Brady in training camp and has made a couple big plays for us. One or both of those guys could be key players for us doing well this season and going forward.

I have nothing against Jones, I'm not saying I'm glad he's off the team. But the players we got for him, plus the cap space that makes Bennett essentially free is worth it for me.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I totally understands belichicks "trade a guy a year early before a year too late" beliefs...I just think when you have a star player in his prime and tom Brady is close to 40....keep those stars around tom for as long as possible. Let's win as many super bowls as we can before the window closes for tom. I understand the patriots think about the future "don't trade the future for a bowl of porridge"

The thing is that people were writing about Brady's closing window in 2011 and 2012. If BB had listened to them back then, we probably don't win in 2014, and we certainly have no chance in 2015 or this year either.

I understand it's exciting to push all the chips into the middle and go all-in. But there's also different ways to maximize a window, depending on the size of the window.

One day, Brady's window will close. I am not disagreeing with that. But we saw last year that you could still win with a game manager QB and a good defense, so if BB can sustain this emerging top 10 defense by re-signing Collins and High, it could potentially set up Brady for 4 to 6 more chances, rather than the traditional 1-2 year window most fans think of.

The Saints have been in a similar situation with Brees and they do keep pushing all-in, but they've missed the play-offs 3 of the past 4 years, largely due to terrible cap situations from failed big moves. They look no closer to competing this year or next either. So I don't really think I want to follow their example on how to manage the end of your HOF QB's career.

 

[ausbacker]

I totally understands belichicks "trade a guy a year early before a year too late" beliefs...I just think when you have a star player in his prime and tom Brady is close to 40....keep those stars around tom for as long as possible. Let's win as many super bowls as we can before the window closes for tom. I understand the patriots think about the future "don't trade the future for a bowl of porridge"

Jones is a one trick pony and that's perfectly alright. If I'm an OC scheming against the Patriots D, I send my rushes in his direction almost every time. He's a liability against the run and wasn't particularly proficient in setting the edge. Belichick demands more from his edge defenders and that may have contributed to his Foxboro exit.

I like Jones and when he was on, he was on, but the team can and has covered him.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't, but a guy who may lead the NFL in sacks, QB hurries this year, whose 27 years old coming off a 13 sack performance, don't you think that should generate a first round pick?

Because he is in the final year of his contract.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Thuney had been a beast for us, but can he last for 19 games?

Plus the coaching staff seems to like karras.

I love Macon as a run blocker.

Really it came down to the coaching staff thinking Jackson has more promise Than cooper.

 

[ausbacker]

Thuney had been a beast for us, but can he last for 19 games?

Plus the coaching staff seems to like karras.

I love Macon as a run blocker.

Really it came down to the coaching staff thinking Jackson has more promise Than cooper.

It's reasonable to suggest the Patriots may want to establish fluidity and consistency on the line because come January/February, that unit is going to need to need to know each other inside out. With Cooper's injury history, perhaps the Pats didn't want to chance knowing he'll probably breakdown at some point.

 

[Mack Herron]

Thuney had been a beast for us, but can he last for 19 games?

Plus the coaching staff seems to like karras.

I love Macon as a run blocker.

Really it came down to the coaching staff thinking Jackson has more promise Than cooper.

They needed a roster spot. Jackson is not on the roster.