jcdavey

yep, team chemistry is huge, i think ainge hurt it with all those moves

KontradictioN

I actually thought West played extremely well in this series.

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chicowalker

Yeah, I don't understand the West part.

The trade hurt the team, but I don't think it was so much the players or even something as intangible as "chemistry."

It was the very real fact that guys didn't seem to fit in. There wasn't team. I think things could have been different with this roster from day 1, but that's not what they had.

If there were no trade, and we had Perkins and Nate, I could see this series going differently, but that's only because of how close it was (in most of the game, not the series score, obviously) -- a couple shots here or there in an alternate universe also could have made the series go differently.

jcdavey

so i guess the celtics will go hard after dwight howard, right?

BradyManny

Big Baby was something like a -35 this series. And that was mostly the first two games when we were playing him at the 5.

Big Baby as our center was the reason we lost this series.

We can thank Ainge for that situation.

BradyManny

The Heat have two of the best penetrators in the history of the game. They will not be able to beat the Heat until they can defend the interior again.

reflexblue

It was the trade in general, it was not only Perkins it was Robinson also, and as Boston Boxer says it disrupted the chemistry.

chicowalker

Biggest issue this team has is its bench, imo. It could have been a strength, but for a variety of reasons come the playoffs, they had nobody to come off the bench to be an offensive spark, a defensive stopper, a rebounder or inside presence.

Think about the championship year: Posey provided energy, defense and some offense; House provided outside shooting and some energy; PJ Brown offered some size and rebounding and put in some big buckets in the finals; Powe offered rebounding and some inside offense.

This year, there always questions off the bench at center just like in the starting rotation. I think Big Baby was thrown out of his game by playing out of position so much, or maybe it was conditioning?; regardless of the reason, he went from being a huge asset in the first half of the year to a liability at the end of the season and playoffs. Daniels had contributed at both ends of the floor but was lost for the year (any word on him, btw?). Wafer showed flashes but never really came back from his injury.

West was a good backup, imo - superior to Nate, though I'd have preferred to have both of them. Green showed potential but was very inconsistent, same goes for Krstic -- maybe they'd turn into valuable pieces if they're with the team from training camp, but they weren't it for a championship team. Murphy might have provided some rebounding strength but hadn't played much w/the Nets, got hurt when he came over here and then offered nothing. Pavlovic and Arroyo never got integrated. Could they provided something next year? no idea.

But even with the existing team's age, if they're able to add some combination of a legit center, 3-point shooter, defender / energy guy and rebounder to the bench, this team contends again next year. maybe Green offers some of that if he comes back. maybe Avery can become a defensive pest / energy guy? To me it comes down to whether those guys are out there, and whether we can get them.

BradyManny

People say this - as if it is in defense of the Perkins trade.

People do realize that our bench would've included Jermaine O'Neal had the trade not gone down, right?

The Celtics - by my count - were a +19 with Jermaine O'Neal on the court this series.

As I said earlier, Big Baby was a -35 by my count.

If you have Perkins in there, playing at a higher level than JO can, and then you bring in JO off the bench - you have such an immense upgrade over playing Big Baby at the 5, it would have made the difference.

Our play at the backup 3/4 (Jeff Green) was not at all a factor in this series. Green couldn't guard James to save his life, he did not have a fraction of the impact we had hoped.

chicowalker

If I were stating it as a defense of the trade, I would have said that. I'm stating what I view as the biggest issue with the team, both this year and next.

Of course there's an upgrade with J. O'Neal off the bench (when healthy). maybe you missed it where I stated, "I think Big Baby was thrown out of his game by playing out of position so much, or maybe it was conditioning?; regardless of the reason, he went from being a huge asset in the first half of the year to a liability at the end of the season and playoffs."

As for guarding james, I guess you missed were I stated, "...they had nobody to come off the bench to be ...a defensive stopper, ...Think about the championship year: Posey provided energy, defense and some offense; ...But even with the existing team's age, if they're able to add some combination of a legit center, 3-point shooter, defender / energy guy..."

and re Green in particular, "...showed potential but was very inconsistent..."

I agree that the Perkins trade hurt the team. As I posted last night, the pieces acquired didn't fit in. I don't know whether they could with more time.

btw, the one thing you do seem to overlook is that Perkins was no sure thing in coming back from injury -- so there was some risk at relying on him as well. The bottom line is that we had 3 injury risks at center from the start of the year. Given the #s, pesonally, I was fine with that bet. When he pulled the trigger on the trade, he made a gamble on health (Perkins's as well as the O'Neals') among other things and lost.