scout

Sorry, your wrong on all counts. Usually, when an analysis mentions the "never lost..yada, yada," I don't listen as it is not relevant. However, one problem with Miami is that they have not played together long enough to determine what are all their problems (opposed to the Celtics). Next and very importantly, are you out of you freakn' mind. Winning a championship together doesn't mean anything? I'll take a nickel for every time I've heard that a teams won a WC line, which is legit (Celtics: Been there/done that).
If you want to compare the Miami team who chokes at the end of games (Zero wins with 17 shots) to the Celtics last year, go ahead. We'll nickname you Kon-Island, because your opinion will be yours alone.

KontradictioN

Not really.

I don't even know what this means.

You don't think a full season together would be long enough? 82 games isn't enough? That's your issue then. I've played a few pick-up games of basketball with complete strangers and it's taken us three games sometimes to know one another's subtleties. I would think that a full season would be long enough for professionals.

It means something for at the time. But winning a championship together two years before doesn't apply to this conversation. Winning a championship in 2007 had absolutely nothing to do with the Celtics second half slide and then rejuvenation in 2009. Therefore, it isn't relevant. It's the exact same thing as attributing the Patriots successful 2010 14-2 season to the fact that they won a Super Bowl in 2004.

I will. The Celtics of last year showed that any good team can go on a slide after the All-Star break and put together a good streak of playoff games to reach the big one.

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ausbacker

Kontra you are aware that you can have a better team without having better players aren't you? There are defined roles, systems and structures employed that can make a less talented team better than the team of champions.

As far as I am concerned (and the results look to validate that) the LeBron Cavs were a better team than your LeBron Heat.

The Heat aren't going on a magic mushroom ride because of the issues most of us brought up in the off-season. There's to many holes in the side and a massive issue with the size department. The Heat need a massive roster overhaul and perhaps next year will be their time.

KontradictioN

I love it. Checking out the comments on ESPN.com, I've gathered that whenever the Heat lose to a good team, they just can't beat teams over .500 and are overrated. Now that the Heat have swept the Lakers on the season series and out-rebounded the "Twin Towers" (especially on the offensive glass), it's only one regular season game and doesn't mean anything.

For one, it's an absolute parody that you still continue to assert that the 2009-2010 Cavs are a better all around team, sans LeBron, than the 2010-2011 Heat. Once again, if the Cavs had a better team around LeBron, it would have shown this season. As it stands right now, the Cavs are the worst team in basketball. They are absolutely putrid. That alone should tell you that the Cavs do not and did not have the better team surrounding #6.

Secondly, the Heat's losing streak was not about players not knowing their roles. Bosh, LeBron, and Wade have known their roles all season. The Heat's losing streak was about CHOOSING not to play within the roles that have led them to success earlier in the season and put them atop the Eastern Conference for a period of time. We saw last night that Miami can fix certain things to help them play better. The Celtics did the same thing going into the playoffs last season.

This is just a complete lack of critical thinking. The LeBron Cavs won zero championships and often fell apart in the postseason precisely BECAUSE there wasn't anybody else on the roster that could carry the team when good defenses swarmed LeBron. The LeBron Heat? They haven't even seen their first postseason yet, so I'm not sure how you can sit back with a straight face and even begin to make that reach of statement.

The size "problems" that people bring up are an absolute myth. The Heat have size. Ilgauskas and Dampier are both over 7 feet. Chris Bosh is close. Size isn't a problem in Miami. Knowing how to best use it is. We saw last night that, when used correctly, Miami's size can be a huge asset for them. They out-rebounded L.A. and out-rebounded Boston the last time the two teams played. Miami's weakness is at PG. That's where they've been exploited the most during the losing streak.

As for the Heat's gameplan last night, I loved it. Let Wade lead, let LeBron facilitate, and use Bosh more on the low post. When you combine that with the production they got out of Mike Miller and their bench, the Heat are tough to beat.

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ausbacker

KontradictioN

What a well thought, intelligent reply. I'll just take it as you acknowledging my points and choosing to move on. Chris Bosh - 24 points, 9 rebounds against Gasol and Bynum and finally being used in the low post. Good thing the Heat front office didn't listen to ausbacker. I also love how kneejerk some of you get when it comes to other teams outside of Boston when you're just as quick to rip some idiot's head off for doing the same thing when it comes to the Patriots in the main forum. Just outstanding logic.

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ausbacker

Your obvious homerism for the Heat doesn't allow you to critically analyze the many and varied shortcomings of your side yet you appear happy to rest your laurels on the response of a team in 1-2 games after a massive slump.

Kontra everything that is wrong with the Heat was addressed and raised with you before the season. Nothing has changed. The Heat will not win the NBA Championship this season with that side. It is to flawed.

That is why I posted a picture of you putting your head in the sand.

KontradictioN

So me (correctly) saying that the Heat don't have a big man is a myth makes me a homer? You're really struggling here. I've criticized the Heat many a time this year on this forum from stating that they can't expect to just show up and win many games to this, my latest criticism...

I've acknowledged problems concerning a PG (above), a lack of effort, bad coaching during some stretches, and others. I've shown that I'm not an over the top homer however, because your original argument was a joke and because you've since had to take several steps back from that original argument, you've now had to resort to name calling when it would have been easier for you to just admit that you really didn't believe that LeBron's Cleveland was "the better side".

Where have I rested my laurels anywhere? I said that the Heat's issues are issues that could be corrected and compared them to Boston's struggles down the stretch last year that were also corrected. Chris Broussard and many other analysts said the same thing. In the L.A. game and in the Memphis game, the Heat seem to have corrected those issues. They showed confidence (something that Pippen said hit his Bulls at some point in the year, every year), they got back to playing team defense, they've trusted their bench players and have since got better play from them, they used Bosh in the low post, and they've let Wade lead the team. If they continue to do this, they'll be hard to beat. If they go back to playing LeBron Ball, they'll go on another skid or two and will be eliminated early in the playoffs. By the way, five games really isn't a "massive" slump.

What was addressed with me before the season is a fundamentally flawed argument, for the most part. The PG issues are correct, but I don't remember that being a big point of contention before the season. If someone can bring up proof of that, I'd be happy to acknowledge it. What was brought up before the season were lack of size and lack of role players. The lack of size is a bull***** argument as I've pointed out. The Heat have two capable seven footers at the center position (granted, they are more finesse than physical, but the Lakers have a couple of finesse big men. How far did they advance in the playoffs the last two years? Who did they beat?) and a big bodied PF along with another banger back-up PF coming back from injury soon in Haslem. The lack of role players? Fail. Mike Miller and Mike Bibby have come on as of late. Chalmers can give you ten points and be a threat from beyond the arc coming off the bench on any given night. If Eddie House can get in the game and out of whatever funk he's in, he'll be a valuable addition. I've already mentioned Haslem.

A massive cop-out, for sure.

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ausbacker

The Heat have a massive gulf in the big man quality department. It's a ridiculous problem which you apparently think putting bodies there means it's fixed. No, it isn't.

Chris Bosh is playing well at the moment. The key will be can he continue this for the necessary 40 odd games to win a championship for you?

No, I completely believe LeBron's Cavs was a better side than your Heat. The players knew their roles and played them well enough to compliment the LeBron Me Show. At Miami those roles aren't as well defined and the general talent of Wade and LeBron is coasting you passed sides where you continue to play streetball.


None of the Heat's issues have been corrected. You've no reasonable PG distributor, a serious lack in quality talls and play school yard basketball. The Heat win because Wade and LeBron are simply that good.

Come on as of late? You mean they played like useless pricks in your slump and gave you serviceable performances more often than not at home during your mini-revival? C'mon Kontra, you're better than this tripe you're serving up.

You don't want to listen because you're head is so far up the proverbial Miami is ******* awesome arse that it's pointless repeating the same correct points over and over to you.

KontradictioN

I'd honestly take what the Heat have at the center position right now over what the Celtics have. Both are presences in the paint. Big Z can post up and shoot and can also be there defensively. Dampier is also a 7 footer that is good defensively and can give you valuable rebounds as well as blocked shots. Bosh, when used in the low post, is also extremely effective and it's shown the last three games. Last night, the Heat out-rebounded the Spurs by double digits. The Celtics, meanwhile, have a banged up 40 year old Shaq and traded away their best center to the Thunder for some role players.

This statement is an epic fail as of right now. It certainly hasn't looked like a problem against two of the bigger teams in the league in the last three games.

The key will be whether or not they continue to use him the way they have in the low post and whether or not they'll let the offense run through Wade and him instead of LeBron. That's all up to the coaching.

Keep telling yourself that. You're essentially saying that this year's edition of the Cavs are better than the Heat would be without LeBron. So basically you're saying that the Heat would be the worst team in basketball if LeBron went down with injury in the next game. I guess everybody is entitled to their opinions, no matter how ridiculous and flawed they might be.

Oh so now it's the roles and not the players that make it a better side? If that's the case, I would want the roles that the Heat have right now (closing to within two games for the top spot in the conference while beating the piss out of the league's premier team) rather than the roles the Cavs have right now, which has them thoroughly in the league's cellar.

And what roles made the Cavs the better team? Give LeBron the ball while we all stand back and watch? Yeah, because that worked out so well in Cleveland. How many rings do they have to show for that again?

Sure they have. Since you're having a bit of trouble with your reading comprehension, I'll repeat it again. The Heat's issues during this "massive" five game slide were as follows...

1. Lack of a quality PG.
2. Not trusting the bench players enough.
3. Not having the offense run through Wade and Bosh.
4. Not using Bosh in the low post.
5. Lack of confidence.

The Heat now have Mike Bibby, whose skill sets work well with what the Heat do. They have trusted their bench players more lately. They've had the offense run through Wade and Bosh instead of LeBron, and they've used Bosh in the low post. The results have been that the Heat have gone 3-0 in impressive fashion. All of the wins have come against WC playoff teams. Two of them came against the top three teams in the WC. One of them came in the form of a 30 point blowout against the best team in the league.

Mike Bibby is more than reasonable for what the Heat do. He will eventually assume the starting role and Chalmers is a great asset to have off the bench.

Not really. I believe that you're thinking about the Celtics.

The Heat win because they have a talented team. It's that simple.

It's hard not to play like "useless pricks" when the coaching isn't trusting you enough to let you contribute to the team. I thinks it's funny that you're dismissing the Heat's winning streak as a "mini-revival" when you were so quick to point to a five game losing streak as a "massive slump" as well. That's a huge failure in logic.

So, after a "massive" five game slide, the Heat are now on a "huge" (huge comes before massive, right?) three game win streak. Jon Barry: "The Spurs are simply the better team, point blank".

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