Celts TRADE #5..Wally, West for Allen - Page 5 - New England Patriots Forums

***patriotspride*** · 06-28-2007, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

Why would you throw up over his face?

We just got a perennial All-Star for the #5 pick and a useless vet with a terrible contract. It hurts to give up Delonte, but he wasn't going to get many minutes with Rondo taking over point anyway.

bad tuna

dhamz · 06-28-2007, 11:25 PM

If this is the first of a series of moves, it could be the start of something good. If Danny can take Ratliff's contract and find a team blinded by Green's athleticism and add some quality players, they could make a run in the East.

If this is the end, it isn't anything to get excited about Right now this is a terrible defensive team with 3 guys who want shots, lots of shots and nothing but JAGs everywhere else. That doesn't even take into account that Pierce and Allen are old and coming off injury plagued seasons which makes it unlikely both guys stay healthy. That team gets beat easily in round one of the Eastern playoffs.

TomBrady'sGoat · 06-28-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhamz

If this is the first of a series of moves, it could be the start of something good. If Danny can take Ratliff's contract and find a team blinded by Green's athleticism and add some quality players, they could make a run in the East.

If this is the end, it isn't anything to get excited about Right now this is a terrible defensive team with 3 guys who want shots, lots of shots and nothing but JAGs everywhere else. That doesn't even take into account that Pierce and Allen are old and coming off injury plagued seasons which makes it unlikely both guys stay healthy. That team gets beat easily in round one of the Eastern playoffs.

Who easily beats this team in the first round? I don't know if any Eastern Conference team easily beats anyone in the first round. The East is downright awful. A freaking one-man team, perhaps the worst Finals team ever, represented the conference this year. A big part of my excitement is that you don't have to be very good to do anything in this Eastern Conference.

It's like the the opposite of the Jets. If they were in the NFC they'd have real playoff and maybe even superbowl hopes. Instead they have no chance at the division and are fighting for 1 playoff spot (either Denver or SD has one of the wildcards wrapped up already).

VJCPatriot · 06-28-2007, 11:57 PM

The East may suck but this team will need to put up 120 points a night to compensate for the terrible defense and lack of size in the front lines. What decent big man do we have besides Jefferson? NONE. Meanwhile our wings are now even more logjammed and our defense got worse. Oh and we got Ray Allen's contract for 3 more years at an average of 17M per year. Woohoo, we got older, AND we tied up our cap! Brilliant!

Patti37 · 06-29-2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

Not true at all. He's always been on bad defensive teams, but he's a solid defender who can create some turnovers. Put him with Rondo in the backcourt, they will be a good combination defensively.

What you said about the contracts was on point. We are positioning ourselves to actually matter in free agency within a few years, and a few decent playoff runs will only help that.

My only concern with this trade has been the fact that the Celts have done very little to improve themselves defensively.

Everyone is saying Allen is a poor defender. I hope you are correct that he is a solid defender.

The Celtics did need to get a veteran. They needed someone along side Pierce to help with the development of the young players...they still have all the young players minus Delonte. If Big Al, Green, and Rondo continue to develop then we have a strong nucleus. If Tony Allen comes back strong from the ACL injury, I think they will be in decent shape. How these players will develop is unknown?

Once they lost the lottery they had to find a way to make the best of a bad situation.

bakes781 · 06-29-2007, 07:51 AM

I liked the deal, but not with Delonte included that's too much IMO. My preference would have been to blow the whole thing up, but perhaps Allen will help Green's development.

BradyManny · 06-29-2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patti37

Everyone is saying Allen is a poor defender.

It's just something people say b/c he's been on offense-first teams with poor defenses. Not to mention the team has sucked the past two seasons and admittedly Allen's effort may have been lacking at times on the defensive end of the court.

But to say he doesn't have the physical attributes and talent to play defense would be inaccurate.

Same goes for Paul Pierce, who recently has gotten the "he's not the same defender he was" label. Did Pierce's defense decline? Of course not. The team defense was atrocious b/c of the youngsters surrounding him and b/c Wally Sczerbiak is a huge liability.

Real World · 06-29-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

Actually, they will get rid of these high-priced veteran contracts. In 3 years when both Allen and Pierce's contracts expires.

Nobody has been looking at the Celtics rationally recently. I don't know if it's the Sox success with youth or the Pats success with youth, but the whole Celtic nation has become youth obsessed, forgetting that, currently, of all leagues, its the NBA that puts the highest value on experience.

How can this backfire? Delonte West, as much as I am a fan of his, is a JAG. Wally Sczerbiak is a horrendous defensive player with a streaky shot and an overpriced contract. Jeff Green could turn into a serviceable-to above average player in a few years. Ray Allen is an All-Star, one of the best shooters in the league, and a terrific defensive player.

WORST CASE SCENARIO: Pierce and Allen make a few runs at the playoffs, fail, make Boston relevant in the meanwhile. In those three years, Jefferson, Green and Rondo actually approach the age in their career in which they will be strong enough to form a nucleus on their own, and as Pierce and Allen's contract expires, not only do we have the cap space to resign our talent as it begins to approach its prime, we'll have room left over to sign some complimentary parts in free agency.

Honestly, for the "let's build around Al Jefferson" group, you do realize that you're probably 3+ years away from Jefferson even thinking about being able to carry a team.

Is Jeff Green really worth not contending in that period of time?

Let's keep some perspective.

Relevent? Experience? Contracts are up IN THREE YEARS? My god dude how long have you followed the Celtics? I started in the 80's when they were unreal, and perenial contenders. In sports, you're either terrible, or competing for a championship. What are we now? Niether. This trade ensures anotehr 10 years of mediocrity. What we've done now, is we've traded away a piece (#5) that would grow with Rondo, Green, and Jefferson and propel us toward beng a contender. Now, we're 40+ wins for 3 years, and then starting over. Only, at that point, we'll need 4-5 years more time to be good again. 3 + 5 = 8, which means Jefferson will be 30, and we'll be right where we are now with Pierce. GROSS!

A 32 year old Shooting Guard. HAHAHAHA!!!

I'm fed up with being a Celtics fan.

Real World · 06-29-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

Not true at all. He's always been on bad defensive teams, but he's a solid defender who can create some turnovers. Put him with Rondo in the backcourt, they will be a good combination defensively.

What you said about the contracts was on point. We are positioning ourselves to actually matter in free agency within a few years, and a few decent playoff runs will only help that.

He's a liability on defense, which is why Presti entertained offers to trade him. Pierce and Allen are terrible defenders, and average 3+ TO's apiece.

GROOSSS!!!

Free Agents? HAHAHA!!!

What FA basketball player has ever signed with Boston? Brian Scalabrine? HAHAHAHA!!!

We're the Washington Celtics/Boston Wizards.

Real World · 06-29-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

No, the team sucked, just like the Bucks, who were a horrible defensive team while he was there. When healthy, he has the quickness and length to defend.

Again, saying his defense is lacking would be like saying Pierce's over the last couple years is lacking. I challenge both assumptions.

He's a significant upgrade defensively over Wally. While Pierce's D has been hindered by a bad team defense, Wally was, at times, that very source of the poor team defense.

I'm a significant upgrade over Wally defensively. All 5'8 of me. What's that mean? Pierce is a terrible defender. He came into the league as a good one, and has significantly deteriorated in that department. Watch him on D, he's fat now, and hasn't moved well laterally in 3 years.

So what are we now, the 5th or 6th seed?

06-28-2007, 11:25 PM	#42
dhamz In the Starting Line-up Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,095 My Mood:	Re: Celts TRADE #5..Wally, West for Allen If this is the first of a series of moves, it could be the start of something good. If Danny can take Ratliff's contract and find a team blinded by Green's athleticism and add some quality players, they could make a run in the East. If this is the end, it isn't anything to get excited about Right now this is a terrible defensive team with 3 guys who want shots, lots of shots and nothing but JAGs everywhere else. That doesn't even take into account that Pierce and Allen are old and coming off injury plagued seasons which makes it unlikely both guys stay healthy. That team gets beat easily in round one of the Eastern playoffs.

06-28-2007, 11:57 PM	#44
VJCPatriot All Pro Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 11,633	Re: Celts TRADE #5..Wally, West for Allen The East may suck but this team will need to put up 120 points a night to compensate for the terrible defense and lack of size in the front lines. What decent big man do we have besides Jefferson? NONE. Meanwhile our wings are now even more logjammed and our defense got worse. Oh and we got Ray Allen's contract for 3 more years at an average of 17M per year. Woohoo, we got older, AND we tied up our cap! Brilliant! __________________ Pats NEW LOOK Offense To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Weapons Galore!

06-29-2007, 07:51 AM	#46
bakes781 In the Starting Line-up Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brighton Posts: 2,899	Re: Celts TRADE #5..Wally, West for Allen I liked the deal, but not with Delonte included that's too much IMO. My preference would have been to blow the whole thing up, but perhaps Allen will help Green's development. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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