Zappe vs Mac

[WhatJustHappened]

My concern is replacing McDaniels with Patricia/Judge as offensive coaches period. As for the play calling, we haven't been playing the NFL elite over the last few weeks so it's hard to say how effective the play calling really is. Let's see how we roll against the better teams. Either way I'd prefer actual, specialist offensive coaches - not recycled Defensive/Special Teams rehires. However, if you're cool with Mat and Joe then that's fine.

Lmfao.. really!

 

[PaulThePat]

Lmfao.. really!

Yes. Really. Feel free to expand on your thoughts if that's possible.

 

[RIpats88]

Anyone defending Judge/Patricia needs to ask yourself. Would any other team hire a DC and special teams coach to be both coach offense something they have never done before?

Would they be on this team if they weren't bill yes men/ came for cheap?

The answer is no to both

 

[Pats2000]

Look who's at the top in increased output: DET & NYG. Pats are going to have 9 less TDs than last season at this rate. LVR have increased their TD output.



This is all happening with now a 2nd year QB, better skilled players with more exp. on the team. Main difference? OC & QB coach. Coaching matters.

Have you seen the LVR record, it's not exactly something to write home about

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Somewhat deceiving tweet since one of the Zappe INTs was 100% on Agholor and there have been two strip sacks where the RT got beat clean and he never had a chance. Not sure if he’s including the botched exchange with Meyers in that turnover total, too, but that’s also not clear it’s 100% on Zappe.

Would make much more sense for the tweeter to do a granular breakdown of how those turnovers occurred - and break them down into INTs, fumbles, strip sacks.

agree.

All Zapppe's troubles came in one game though: Mac's troubles have been consistent. Those stat's are a little misleading if you don't know the whole story.

agree.

And not to be a Zappe Stan from Zappestan, but he also didn't take first-team reps prior to two of his games, including the one in which the majority of the damage was done to this stat line.

I am glad to believe the "real Mac Jones" is really great, and as soon as he's spotted around the building, by all means, let's get him out there.

I saw somebody saying he's "90%," whatever these falsely precise numbers mean. I'm completely patient about bringing him back, although people not on the team have announced he is the one getting the reps for the Jete game. Eh well, in Bill We Trust, I guess. 3 years on is a little fast to bail on the concensus best coach ever. If it's Jones, yay, go Mac. But throw the damn ball. We have running backs.

 

[upstater1]

Anyone defending Judge/Patricia needs to ask yourself. Would any other team hire a DC and special teams coach to be both coach offense something they have never done before?

Would they be on this team if they weren't bill yes men/ came for cheap?

The answer is no to both

The answer is yes since it has happened, LOL

We even lost to an offensive coordinator in the '17 Super Bowl who was previously on the other side of the ball.

It's happened repeatedly. McDaniels, Mangini and Scarnecchia all switched from the other side. Dean Pees went from special teams to DC.

It's not like this is a new thing.

This isn't even a defense of Patricia!

 

[notex]

Anyone defending Judge/Patricia needs to ask yourself. Would any other team hire a DC and special teams coach to be both coach offense something they have never done before?

Would they be on this team if they weren't bill yes men/ came for cheap?

The answer is no to both

- McDaniels was a DB coach before taking over offense....

- Scarnecchia coached special teams/defense/offense prior to becoming full time OL coach

- Patricia's first job at the patriots was on the offensive side of the ball.

People fail to realize that offenses actually play against defenses (gasp). To coach defense, believe it or not, It does require that you study offensive schemes and plays extensively. It's extremely comical to me that someone can have almost 20 years of experience coaching in the NFL leading superbowl caliber defenses yet the fans/media say he has "zero experience" with NFL offenses. Did his defenses just play against themselves? or did he perhaps learn a thing or two about pro offenses during that time....or as a head coach putting together gameplans? Did he just put blinders on and ignore the offense?

I'm also curious who this rockstar NFL offensive coordinator was that we passed over? I can't think of any first year OC that are setting the world on fire that we could have grabbed.

 

[p8ryts]

Jimmy G 2023

 

[upstater1]

Jimmy G 2023

He's honestly more nervous in the pocket than Mac.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Don’t worry, be zappe!

 

[mgteich]

Can we please stop with the failed coaches bullsh*t. Using the same logic McDaniels was a failed coach when we took him back after Denver. Lots of very good positional coaches and coordinators do not make great Head Coaches it doesn't mean they can never coach ever again. There is logic to the argument that perhaps they shouldn't be coaching offense but just last week all i read was praise for Judge and Patrica for the job that they had done with Zappe and now a week later the sky is falling in and they have ruined Mac even though the slide started happening before they were even here.

No, patricia and Judge aren't failed coaches. That isn't the issue. Jones needed/needs an experienced , successful OC to help him continue his progress from 2021 when he did very, very well as a rookie quarterback. And yes, the OC needed to choose a QB coach who could help Jones develop in the OC's system.

 

[archstanton543]

No, patricia and Judge aren't failed coaches.

They both got fired before their contracts were up when they were head coaches on the Lions and Giants respectively. The biggest condemnation of Judge is how well the Giants are doing with essentially the same team of players that Judge had.

If you mean positional coaches on the Patriots, I'll give you that but they're "playing out of position", as it were.

 

[Wozzy]

No, patricia and Judge aren't failed coaches. That isn't the issue. Jones needed/needs an experienced , successful OC to help him continue his progress from 2021 when he did very, very well as a rookie quarterback. And yes, the OC needed to choose a QB coach who could help Jones develop in the OC's system.

Jones threw 7 interceptions and completed 59% of his passes over his last five games of 2021… this with the boy genius as his coordinator.

I was a Mac supporter before he was drafted, I think he has to talent and accuracy to be as good as he wants to be… he simply hasn’t.

If he struggles against the Jets, it’s another divisional loss. My patience with his development will fade quickly. He can’t keep turning the ball over.

If he can’t do the job, see if Zappe can. If he can’t, draft another QB in 2023.

 

[venecol]

- McDaniels was a DB coach before taking over offense....

- Scarnecchia coached special teams/defense/offense prior to becoming full time OL coach

- Patricia's first job at the patriots was on the offensive side of the ball.

People fail to realize that offenses actually play against defenses (gasp). To coach defense, believe it or not, It does require that you study offensive schemes and plays extensively. It's extremely comical to me that someone can have almost 20 years of experience coaching in the NFL leading superbowl caliber defenses yet the fans/media say he has "zero experience" with NFL offenses. Did his defenses just play against themselves? or did he perhaps learn a thing or two about pro offenses during that time....or as a head coach putting together gameplans? Did he just put blinders on and ignore the offense?

I'm also curious who this rockstar NFL offensive coordinator was that we passed over? I can't think of any first year OC that are setting the world on fire that we could have grabbed.

Now use the same argument for our QB coach.

Explain how STs play against QBs (gasp). How coaching STs, requires that you study QB schemes and plays extensively. How it isn't extremely comical that someone with 8 years of ST coaching in the NFL, yet the fans/media are questioned for saying he has "zero experience" with NFL QBs. ....or how as a head coach putting together gameplans for the #31 & #32 worse offenses in back to back seasons qualifies?

Please explain how his college QB experience helps when this is what he did (yes, that's him in his main role as a holder at Mississippi St).



I've been critical of Patricia, but Judge was always the greatest concern. Both of these guys are arrogant hardos, so should we be surprised that all of a sudden we have turmoil in the QB room; or that a productive WR in year 1 finds himself in the doghouse/ bench in Yr 2; or that a serviceable OT is now completely de-motivated? Are all of these just coincidences?

 

[1960Pats]

It's hilarious that Bill still hasn't named a starter for the Jets game. He'll probably do the exact same thing and wait until game time.

Why not? It's been working like a charm.

How in the world does a 45 yr old Brady who is so stiff in the hips he can't throw an out anymore help us?

Please people. Let's stop this.

Moving on was absolutely the right move for the franchise.

Clearly the move from Brady was a mistake on the field, especially considering that Bill had no backup QB. It was also a mistake off the field because Brady deserved better. He made Belichick, Kraft and some of the players richer and the fans happier.
And now we're finding out, a few years later, that Bill still may have not provided us with a decent QB. He definitely messed up.

Another argument I keep hearing is that Brady was killing our cap and had to go. There's no way that paying one player 50 mil over two years is a cap killer. If it is then the person responsible for the cap (guess who) is at fault, not the greatest player who ever played. Other teams seem to be able to pull it off. Why not the Pats?

Pretty much this. The team looked heading into the right direction. Then bill refused to hire an OL coach and hired two bozos to run the offense. Who have no offensive experience...

Beside the cash savings, there was talk some time ago that Bill may have chosen coaches that are loyal to him and will keep his kids on the staff after he leaves.

A little over the top haha... If getting benched for making poor decisions once in your second year is "irreparable damage" then I'm pretty certain this guy doesn't have the intangibles to be an NFL starter. Personally, I think he has the right attitude and if he puts the work in can be a very good NFL QB.

Why would Mac leave in the offseason? he is under contract. What evidence do you have of conflict in the locker room? Mac is injured and BB thought we had a better chance of winning with a healthy QB...

BB is (arguably) the best head coach in the history of the NFL. So we go ahead and fire him because he sat an injured QB for one half of football?

Essentially you are saying fire the greatest coach of all time because Mac Jones makes him expendable. OK buddy.

The reason it's arguable that Bill is the greatest coach is his record without Brady, both with the Pats and the Browns. In both cases his record is poor.

 

[Wozzy]

Anyone defending Judge/Patricia needs to ask yourself. Would any other team hire a DC and special teams coach to be both coach offense something they have never done before?

Would they be on this team if they weren't bill yes men/ came for cheap?

The answer is no to both

Anyone suggesting Mac’s mistakes belong to the coaches is looking for preexisting biases based off preseason “the coaches suck” narrative.

A good QB if put in a bad position on an individual play, either by coach, scheme or simply a defender making a play simply throws the ball away and lives to fight another day.

What bad QB’s do is panic, make boneheaded decisions to loft an air ball into a crowd of defenders and hope for the best.

Mac’s decision making has been lacking. He led the entire NFL in interceptions and interception percentage when he finished the Baltimore game… that’s not on the coaches.

 

[RIpats88]

Anyone suggesting Mac’s mistakes belong to the coaches is looking for preexisting biases based off preseason “the coaches suck” narrative.

A good QB if put in a bad position on an individual play, either by coach, scheme or simply a defender making a play simply throws the ball away and lives to fight another day.

What bad QB’s do is panic, make boneheaded decisions to loft an air ball into a crowd of defenders and hope for the best.

Mac’s decision making has been lacking. He led the entire NFL in interceptions and interception percentage when he finished the Baltimore game… that’s not on the coaches.

His decision making has been lacking. But his decision making was lauded last year as being great for a rookie. So what changed? That's the question. Only thing that changed was the OC and changing the entire offense. And Mac is struggling with the new offense.

For years during the Brady era we blamed bad coaching for ruining QBs. Now for some reason we have to hold Patricia/Joe judge in some high regard above criticism. Trevor Lawrence looks pretty bad this year. Is he a bust? Or a product of the circumstances around him.

Coaches call the plays, they design the offense. So you can't absolve them of criticism to fit the "zappe better" narrative. Last year Mac Jones had 30% play action. This year 10%. He also played more under center last year. That's all coaching. Now from recent articles Patricia/Mac talked about dialing back the deep passing game.

So let's see if there's more success scaling the offense back abit.

 

[RIpats88]

Now use the same argument for our QB coach.

Explain how STs play against QBs (gasp). How coaching STs, requires that you study QB schemes and plays extensively. How it isn't extremely comical that someone with 8 years of ST coaching in the NFL, yet the fans/media are questioned for saying he has "zero experience" with NFL QBs. ....or how as a head coach putting together gameplans for the #31 & #32 worse offenses in back to back seasons qualifies?

Please explain how his college QB experience helps when this is what he did (yes, that's him in his main role as a holder at Mississippi St).



I've been critical of Patricia, but Judge was always the greatest concern. Both of these guys are arrogant hardos, so should we be surprised that all of a sudden we have turmoil in the QB room; or that a productive WR in year 1 finds himself in the doghouse/ bench in Yr 2; or that a serviceable OT is now completely de-motivated? Are all of these just coincidences?

I don't understand the Judge/Patricia defenders at this point.

Almost forgot about Bourne. Looked amazing last year. now can't find his way onto the field...the offense is a mess and it's because you have these two bozos leading it.

 

[PP2]

Don’t worry, be zappe!

I don't see that zappening.

 

[archstanton543]

I don't see that zappening.

Stranger things have zappened, though.