Zappe vs Mac

[Tunescribe]

That reminds me, 'Mac' spelled backwards is 'Cam'.

Um, sorry...

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Dude, this doesn't seem to support your case...

 

[Tunescribe]

Dude, this doesn't seem to support your case...

What case? Oh, you can buy me one of these:

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

What case? Oh, you can buy me one of these:

On it. You got good taste, Bro.

 

[pats99]

If we’re chastising folks for shooting down Jones, because after all, “we’re all on the same team here”, why are we tolerating people doing the same to Zappe?

Zappe performs the way he did, people get rightfully and justifiably excited, and then others tell us he isn’t that great, qualify/undermine/downplay his performance, do stuff like make comments belittling former coaches praising him, etc.

This stuff goes both ways. I think there are very few who actually have goodwill towards both equally - most prefer one guy, which is human nature I suppose, especially when only one can play at a time.

The name of this thread "Mac or Zappe". Its pretty clear cut. If we all agreed as to who we prefer we wouldn't be closing in on 500 posts in the few weeks this thread was open, so its a resonable point to argue. The name calling, "chastising" belittling etc, thats going to happen, everyone has their style of posting, just some are a little more caustic than others.

Big picture since you mentioned "we are all on the same team here" we are in way better shape than we were a month ago. If Mac Jones stays the starter he is playing at a ~ high level ~. I just don't see Bill putting Jones out there week after week if he is struggling without giving Zappe another chance. So at the very least we at least have second string QB we can get excited about, instead of 37 year old journeyman who hasn't won a game in his last 12 starts. Thats harsh but I don't know how else to put it.

 

[Ollie]

I went back and watched Jones' snaps against Baltimore. Perhaps because the team was playing from behind, I wasn't appreciating what he was doing. He had some elite-level plays in the 1st half. Unfortunately he wasn't consistent and demonstrated some of the problematic traits we've seen too often in the 2nd half.

I really get the sense it's mental with Jones. When he's relaxed, calm, and in rhythm, he can throw the ball exceptionally well and be on-par with the best passers in the league, especially throwing the ball downfield. You could see a sort of hybrid between Brees/Peyton (I know people compare Jones to Brady a lot but I don't see it).

When Jones gets thrown off, faces some adversity, gets disrupted, that's when the bad habits come out: skittish in the pocket, dropping his eyes, bad timing/mechanics, throwing off the back foot, missing underneath defenders, poor decision making. Speculating here, but I expect Jones is probably better at practice than during live games right now, because he can be completely at ease during practice without the pressure of a live game. I sorta get the sense he has flashed more potential behind closed doors than we've seen in live games.

Combine Jones' upside/potential, along with his obvious conscientiousness, I can understand why the team would give him the opportunity to continue to start. I do believe, though, if you asked BB after giving a truth serum, he'd say Zappe has played better in games and led to winning football. But, the given the aforementioned circumstances - along with the fact Jones is still a 2nd year player - means it makes sense to continue to give Jones the opportunity to play and see if he can figure it out.

That said, 4-5 weeks ago the team likely believed they would have real trouble winning many games without Jones under center. Now they have confidence that the guy behind Jones not only will not lose them games, but can win them in his own right. If Jones continues to turn the ball (his most direct contribution to the losses), he won't start for much longer. While I believe BB is in this for the long-haul (another 4-6 seasons), make no mistake that he wants to catch Shula and he needs to start wracking them up now; if he feels Jones is losing them games, he won't play him much longer.

Will Jones figure it out? I don't know. When it comes to mental stuff, self-assuredness, ability to focus and sharpen during times of adversity, it seems some guys have it and others don't ... but it's not fair to write him off at this point. To my eye, Zappe doesn't appear to have the same issues with consistency (mental or otherwise); he's looked tremendously steady from snap-to-snap, and remarkably mature in every sense.

Hopefully this is a win-win for the team. If you get maximum potential Jones, the offense could be explosive and very productive - high ceiling. If you get inconsistent, turnover-prone Jones, you have Zappe ready to step in and lead the team forward with confidence.

This is pretty much my take, it's a positive for the team to have options but what i have seen from Mac when things go wrong is concerning. If he can't get beyond that then he isn't going to be a starter in the NFL.

 

[venecol]

...

 

[venecol]

I just can't get my head around making immediate and long lasting changes basted on a 2 game sample against bad defenses and extraordinary TO and 4th down stats. Our QB had the best season of any of the 7 QB's taken in the first 2 rounds by FAR.

I keep reading quotes like this regarding Mac as it relates to him being the starter. Are we saying that because Mac beat out other mediocre rookie QBs mainly in terrible teams (Jags, Jets, Bears, Texans, etc.) in his rookie season; that it's enough to guarantee him the start? What happened with the mantra of best player gets to play? This is just weird.

 

[venecol]

Agreed

There used to be a delete post button, not sure why it was removed.

 

[Zuma]

I keep reading quotes like this regarding Mac as it relates to him being the starter. Are we saying that because Mac beat out other mediocre rookie QBs mainly in terrible teams (Jags, Jets, Bears, Texans, etc.) in his rookie season; that it's enough to guarantee him the start? What happened with the mantra of best player gets to play? This is just weird.

I find it odd to be honest. Mac isn’t 100% healthy and Zappe is winning games. Maybe I missed something…it happens.

 

[moosekill]

I find it odd to be honest. Mac isn’t 100% healthy and Zappe is winning games. Maybe I missed something…it happens.

1. They haven't announced the starter yet.
2. We aren't sure Mac isn't 100%
3. We don't see them every day in practice, perhaps even if he isn't 100%, the coaching staff thinks Mac is better than Zappe at 100%
4. Perhaps the coaching staff thinks that Mac is a better QB than Zappe, and they think that flip flopping qb's based upon cries from fans might not be the best way to run a professional football team.

 

[203Pat]

I don't get why you have to slam one and praise the other.

 

[jdlboot14]

To my eye, peak Zappe over the past couple weeks looked better than anything I saw from Jones, this season or last. That said, 2-1/2 games is a much smaller sample size than 20+, which is a fair consideration.

I'll disagree here. People seem to forget so quickly how much praise Mac got last year for being the best-performing rookie QB in years. His completion %, his processing, his decision making. I won't argue that Zappe hasn't done similarly in these last 2 1/2 games, but Mac went stride for stride with Bucs and Boys last year in week 4/5. I don't know if Zappe has looked like that because he's only faced weak teams.
However, if Zappe was our "new start" rookie this year, and Mac didn't exist - you bet I'd be really happy with his apparent potential. All to say, let Mac show us why he was heralded as having grown and improved so much this offseason.

 

[catent]

I'll disagree here. People seem to forget so quickly how much praise Mac got last year for being the best-performing rookie QB in years. His completion %, his processing, his decision making. I won't argue that Zappe hasn't done similarly in these last 2 1/2 games, but Mac went stride for stride with Bucs and Boys last year in week 4/5. I don't know if Zappe has looked like that because he's only faced weak teams.
However, if Zappe was our "new start" rookie this year, and Mac didn't exist - you bet I'd be really happy with his apparent potential. All to say, let Mac show us why he was heralded as having grown and improved so much this offseason.

IMO Jones did a lot of things well last season but even in his best of games (Tampa, Dallas, Cleveland) I thought he had issues mechanically. Not fully stepping into throws, throwing off his back foot, "flipping" the ball instead of driving it, skittish/jittery in the pocket.

He is very accurate but I never watched him drop-back and felt, "yeah, this guy has got it", like I have with Zappe - and before him - Brady. You can just tell when Zappe/Brady hit their backfoot if it is going to be a good play; I've never felt that level of confidence with Jones. Subjective "to my eye" stuff, for sure ... just my two cents.

No doubt his football acumen is good, his pre-snap preparation is good, he has a high "care" factor, he throws an accurate ball. I just haven't really seen it all come together where I think, "yeah, this guy has the full package", in terms of on-field action.

The 1st half of the Baltimore game was the closest I've seen to a maximized Jones, yet I still saw many of the aforementioned troubling habits/traits mixed in, too. I'm fine with the team giving him time to try to put it all together, so long as he isn't losing them games in the process.

 

[jdlboot14]

What's really funny about the Mac V. Zappe talk - no one is trashing Matty P as a bad OC.
Is it really all that he couldn't call plays, or Mac was SO bad the first 3 weeks? Or can we all acknowledge that teams (especially Patriot teams) really start figuring it out the 2nd month of the season. The OL has improved, the pass game is locking in (+TE's targeted), and yes, the opponents were bad. But we can't say Patricia's calls have been bad. Or that JMD was so great because he could get a rookie QB to play well.

 

[rogerthat]

I don't get why you have to slam one and praise the other.

Because it's more fun that way. F Mac, go Zappe!

 

[IcyPatriot]

Mac'ers vs Zappers ...
"The Heat it On" ....
Love the hair ... man I miss the hair.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

We'll be behind EITHER of them, some of us just see things differently.
NOONE wants EITHER to fail unless they are assholes that just wanna be right, and unfortunately that DOES happen.
We want EITHER of them doing well.
I just hope Mac doesn't get hurt by coming back early, and can avoid the rush.

 

[maust]

I don't get why you have to slam one and praise the other.

And yet you're not new here

 

[Disco Volante]

For all of my fellow Zappe supporters, we can now all officially take a bow.

Beyond dumb for Belichick to start Jones here. I wanted Zappe for this game and going forward but at least Mac could have lost his job due to an injury/hot hand coming in as opposed to coming in, sucking and decreasing his value.

Also, I'd like to restate. Do NOT let that troll MAC10 change his name again to anything related to Zappe now. He is a curse and I do not want his trolling/posts affiliated with the awesomeness that is Zappe.