Zappe vs Mac

[Ian]

As I hear names of Patriot’s Backup Quarterback lore I am reminded of a key invariant:

Not every man with a beautiful, extremely significant other is a Patriots backup quarterback. But every Patriots backup quarterback has a beautiful, extremely significant other.

Lol, neither QB - either current starter or current injured former starter - has anything to complain about there

 

[Betterthanmost]

OK, this is getting to be a bit much. It's not Zappe's "movements in the pocket" making the OL look better. The OL was shaky throughout preseason and first three games. Then it started jelling at Green Bay with the running game getting into sync, Strange starting to find his groove, Trent Brown finally "buying in" and Cannon working in relief of Wynn. Zappe has been primary benefactor.

Yes, it sucks you are ripping Mac because the "faults" you attribute to him are shortsighted -- including "panic" and "throwing the ball up under duress." The OL, Patricia, new WRs and NEW OFFENSIVE SYSTEM were in flux through the point he got injured; some of his picks were attributed to inopportune play calling and others' missed assignments. Mac's rocky performances this season have been largely circumstantial as has Zappe's positive showing.

What amazes me is how quickly folks here have forgotten the strengths Mac demonstrated last season when he finished second in ORY balloting: excellent pocket awareness, quick release, accuracy and great decision making. He led the Pats to a playoff berth and was the league's 15th-rated quarterback as a rookie. Suddenly his job is in jeopardy?

Zappe has been a very impressive surprise so far. He's the shiny new toy but IMO has more to prove vs. stiffer competition before this supposed Patriots QB "controversy" genuinely earns legs. Who knows, perhaps Zappe actually IS the better player; I have explicit trust in BB to make that determination. For me, the bottom line is WINS regardless of who's behind center. As a Patriots fan I'm happy we have both these guys, seeing it more as Mac AND Zappe instead of Mac vs. Zappe.

I like your post a lot except one line about me saying he exhibits panicking being shortsighted. I saw this from his first NFL play and I was surprised that an SEC QB will act this way, I assumed perhaps the coaching stuff have scared the hell out of him. Not sure if it was a pass or lateral or what. He has always showed that panicking tendencies to me. You will say it was just one play but it told me a lot. I train people for high stress duties and I am above average at picking them.

 

[Fuzz]

 

[Tunescribe]

I like your post a lot except one line about me saying he exhibits panicking being shortsighted. I saw this from his first NFL play and I was surprised that an SEC QB will act this way, I assumed perhaps the coaching stuff have scared the hell out of him. Not sure if it was a pass or lateral or what. He has always showed that panicking tendencies to me. You will say it was just one play but it told me a lot. I train people for high stress duties and I am above average at picking them.

I know the play you're talking about, you can hardly judge him on that. What defines "panicky" QB play is bailing early out of the pocket but there's a difference between that and being forced to run for your life from free rushers. I don't believe Mac is panicky; in fact, I think he's a tough kid who has stood in there and taken his share of hits. I do recall Jared Stidham being pretty gun-shy.

 

[signbabybrady]

Don't you mean Zappelocks

 

[venecol]

It isn’t. But the board should also keep in mind the competition that Zappe was playing against in his two starts on top of the fact that this system is the only pro system he’s ever been in. Mac, on the other hand, was transitioning from McD to Patricia/Judge, and doing it against a tougher slate of opponents. Doesn’t excuse his decision making, his floaters to the boundaries, or predetermining where he was going with the ball before the snap. Just some context when evaluating the two.

But that just makes what Zappe has shown even more impressive with the speed in which he's been able to improve in an NFL setting. Regarding the opposition, we just saw Rodgers, Brady, & Garoppolo lose to Wilson, Trubisky & Mariota. There were 7 upsets this weekend, possibly 8 with tonights outcome. There's way more parity across the league.

Zappe never faced a Myles Garrett level of player and got sacked twice by him, yet had one of the best QB performances this weekend:

Rating: 118.1 (#4)
TD: 2 (#2)
INT: 0 (#1)
Sacks: 2 (#3)
Yards: 309 (#5)
Comp: 24 (#7)
Att: 34 (#8)

Zappe played under OC Kittley (now Texas Tech OC/QB coach) who ran an Air Raid offense out of the shot gun formation with 4 receivers & a RB. This kid does nothing but pass and had the flexibility to audible to any play based on what the defense showed him at the line of scrimmage.

Let me ask you, how difficult is it for Zappe to go from that shotgun offense to being UC in the NFL? I would think it'd be a challenge. This kid is wicked smart.

 

[venecol]

Lol

 

[mgteich]

Hoyer is robbing the patriots blind. Cut his ass. A horrible unqualified past his prime player taking a spot away from some 22 year old athletic freak who could actually help the team on the field

You simply don't understand his contract. It's guaranteed, and $1M of 2023 is guaranteed. The team needed someone to mentor Mac, and to be an emergency backup. Hoyer agreed to sign up for the job.

 

[Grogan14]

Again, Zappe's a great kid.

This video from the day he was drafted has made him a fun guy to root for:

Whether you think Zappe is a backup or should be QB1, this video reveals him to be an extremely likable, polite underdog who is cool and calm as a cucumber.
I like BOTH our starting QBs and will be more than happy for either of them or both to be extremely successful.
Certainly, Zappe is much more of a true underdog story.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

But that just makes what Zappe has shown even more impressive with the speed in which he's been able to improve in an NFL setting. Regarding the opposition, we just saw Rodgers, Brady, & Garoppolo lose to Wilson, Trubisky & Mariota. There were 7 upsets this weekend, possibly 8 with tonights outcome. There's way more parity across the league.

I've made this point for years on here and the list above just highlights it. True pocket passers are dead. Now some genius will come along and say "you have to be able pass to win", thanks in advance seers.

The position has changed though where you're relying less on classic drop backs, putting less on QB's in some areas but asking more in others. More PA, misdirection, motion - more system players that when you get a fit, it works and hits. If not you get Goff, Mayfield, Trubisky and Fields is sadly in that category. Just a different type of QB. You don't see the classic pocket passers coming through anymore. And even guys like Mac are running tons of rpo/yac routes.

I'm not even trying to say one is better or we. Just can't deny the type we have and are seeing. Like sure Josh Allen can beat you with his arm but him, Mahomes are about as far away from the classic pocket passers most grew up watching.

Zappe never faced a Myles Garrett level of player and got sacked twice by him, yet had one of the best QB performances this weekend:

Rating: 118.1 (#4)
TD: 2 (#2)
INT: 0 (#1)
Sacks: 2 (#3)
Yards: 309 (#5)
Comp: 24 (#7)
Att: 34 (#8)

Zappe played under OC Kittley (now Texas Tech OC/QB coach) who ran an Air Raid offense out of the shot gun formation with 4 receivers & a RB. This kid does nothing but pass and had the flexibility to audible to any play based on what the defense showed him at the line of scrimmage.

Let me ask you, how difficult is it for Zappe to go from that shotgun offense to being UC in the NFL?

not as difficult as you'd think. most take a ton of snaps uc throughput the year in / away from practice, on their own. although in game is obvious a different story. I remember Mahomes, I believe it was? I could be wrong it's late and I'm falling asleep but he took less than 20 snaps uc in college but practiced like 50-75 a week in/away from practice. Again I could be wrong but it was a prominent, recent QB.



I don't have to be sold on Zapee though. Gods help this forum if he becomes something since I basically drafted him myself. I'll be insufferable then. If that happens I would have extended Bill's career to catch Shula.

 

[signbabybrady]

I've made this point for years on here and the list above just highlights it. True pocket passers are dead. Now some genius will come along and say "you have to be able pass to win", thanks in advance seers.

The position has changed though where you're relying less on classic drop backs, putting less on QB's in some areas but asking more in others. More PA, misdirection, motion - more system players that when you get a fit, it works and hits. If not you get Goff, Mayfield, Trubisky and Fields is sadly in that category. Just a different type of QB. You don't see the classic pocket passers coming through anymore. And even guys like Mac are running tons of rpo/yac routes.

I'm not even trying to say one is better or we. Just can't deny the type we have and are seeing. Like sure Josh Allen can beat you with his arm but him, Mahomes are about as far away from the classic pocket passers most grew up watching.

not as difficult as you'd think. most take a ton of snaps uc throughput the year in / away from practice, on their own. although in game is obvious a different story. I remember Mahomes, I believe it was? I could be wrong it's late and I'm falling asleep but he took less than 20 snaps uc in college but practiced like 50-75 a week in/away from practice. Again I could be wrong but it was a prominent, recent QB.



I don't have to be sold on Zapee though. Gods help this forum if he becomes something since I basically drafted him myself. I'll be insufferable then. If that happens I would have extended Bill's career to catch Shula.

You already earned your draft rep be insufferable just keep bringing the knowledge

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Oddly enough, pocket awareness and Mac's adeptness at moving around there was an attribute people talked about last season that they were impressed with. The running backwards and turning his back was a new thing this preseason and a new habit he seemed to picked up, because I don't recall ever seeing him do it last season despite all the All-22 footage I watched of him. The same could be said with going through his progressions. He did a better job of that last year than he was doing this year. Again, I don't know if that was due to not being comfortable with the offense or the fact that he was rushing through them and locking in on his guy because the offensive line really only gave him reasonable protection against Pittsburgh.

But yes, he did the things you said but didn't do them last year. There's an issue, I obviously don't know what it is. But I'm not ready to quit on a player three games into a season. I feel comfortable that Zappe is more than just a back-up, so I've mentally moved him ahead of Hoyer and have a comfort level if he needs to start. But I don't feel like he's eclipsed Jones just yet and I want to see Mac again in this current offense, with this more established offensive line.

Also, Zappe struggled against pressure in preseason and finished with one touchdown and three interceptions over three games in August. I like the kid and I'm also fair enough to realize there were some difficult situations that both he and Jones dealt with. He's just been playing with a group that, unlike Jones, had three extra games of experience to work out the kinks by the time he took the field with them.

Mac had the SAME OL IN PS, And Bailey was a baby.
He's not a baby anymore, he has better pocket PRESCENCE than Mac IMO.
I'd LOVE for Mac to be the man,after what I've seen, I'm just not sure he is.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Pocket awareness happens when there IS a pocket to be aware in.

Mac ran AWAY, That's my point.

 

[TommyD4207]

Zappe until he plays a ****ty game. It’s the only fair way to go about it

What if he plays a ****ty half? Or a ****ty quarter like he did in the 2nd of the last game?

 

[SEA_Pat]

Yes and zappe got to play against a clown of an NFL QB in goff, and a CFL level QB jacoby brissett. Mac got to play against the biggest bust of the decade Mitch trubiskey and of course he won

Meanwhile, mac had to compete against Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rogers, and Tua.

Big difference

I believe the QBs play against the defense. Which actually better reinforces your point because the defenses that Zappe has played were worse than those Mac has played. The actions of the other QB have a minimal effect on the performance of our QB, or at the very least they shouldn't.

 

[SEA_Pat]

I hear many say "this isn't a Bledsoe/Brady situation". I think it is. Just like we could see how one guy was able to just take charge and keep making the right play and do the little things that resulted in Ws, we could see the more talented higher profile guy would just keep making dumb mistakes and doing things that resulted in Ls. Bill saw it too, and pulled the trigger because "he gives us the best chance to win". This despite Bledsoe's rocket arm and first round credentials.

Mac needs to rest until his ankle is healed, but if Zappe continues his current level of play and we're winning games, why would you sit him once that happens? You are what your record says you are, as someone once said.

 

[JayNM]

For the next game, we roll with Zappe, no question. There is no reason to change 2-0 winning QB, playing well, for a guy who wasn't hot for the start of the season and it's now limping

Id let Zappe handle things up until the bye. If he goes undefeated, sorry Mac, you gotta wait. If he goes 3-1 or 2-2 and looks good, 75% he sticks around

2-2 or worse he gets benched for the second Jets' game.

Suddenly, this season got exciting and I love it

 

[Salsalife]

This man called it early. He even said if Zappe was the backup and get's a chance he will win the starting job. Great Draft pick Coach!

 

[Rob0729]

All this anti-Mac recency bias is mind boggling.

It's crazy. I even heard someone on the radio compare him to Tony Eason.

Yes, the jury is out on whether Jones can be a franchise QB, but I still think he is the best QB on the team despite what happened on Sunday. My opinion can change if Zappe continues to play and play well.

Zappe could build on Sunday's game and win the starting role outright or it was an aberration like we saw with Davis Mills when he played the Pats last year when he lit up the Pats' defense. Or he could head back to the bench next Monday night and we may never know.

Either way, I don't know why Mac Jones has to be mischaracterized as hesitant in the pocket with poor decision making and cannot feel the pressure and lacks confidence. Sure he showed some of that stuff early this year, but we have a whole year last year that counters that argument.

 

[Salsalife]

All i can say is: Brady/Bledsoe 2.0. History repeats...