PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Words on things I watched, read & heard


It’s official! The entire Chargers “organization” needs to be ameliorated. This has been happening since as far back as I can remember smdh.



Quick Q: How exactly do these injections work? How do they subdue intense pain without having a downer effect?
 
There is a nerve that runs beneath and just on the inside of each of your ribs. An injection like this looks to temporarily deaden the nerve and thereby relieve the pain caused by bending cracked ribs. If you poke too far while trying to deaden the nerve you hit lung tissue and make a hole.
 
There is a nerve that runs beneath and just on the inside of each of your ribs. An injection like this looks to temporarily deaden the nerve and thereby relieve the pain caused by bending cracked ribs. If you poke too far while trying to deaden the nerve you hit lung tissue and make a hole.

Safe to assume that "too wide" is a very small distance? Perhaps something made more difficult outside of a health care setting?
 
Darren Waller is a name every draftnik knows well. Probably entered the game too early in the sense that the league wasn't ready for him in the sense of creativity and usage. He definitely wasn't ready for the league. Big time battle with substance abuse early on. Sounds and looks like different dude. Seems happy, humble, focused.
He broke last year, I still remember David Carr talking him up before last season. Obviously there was a connection there.

Waller is a feature force for Oakland. Gruden loves moving him around & Carr absolutely depends on him. There's a real trust there. Especially on 3rd down. Waller or Renfrow have Carr's trust. He's going his way or looking his way no matter what.

He's used everywhere. Inline, tight-reduced/slot, outside, motion. Eats up a cushion. Big time catch radius - definitely need length & quicks to defend. Esp in MOF on crossers & those option/leverage routes. Play him like the power forward he is. Try to get underneath, tight to the hip on crossers. It's about your position more than his. He'll kick in inside/outside depending on how the defender is playing him. Or Just keep going. He's so big, quick, fast, long he just creates natural separation with a step or hesitation by the defender. He can block too. At times he'll lock you out with those long arms. Inline, stalk block in the slot/tight formation.
He really moves. Explosive steps out, eats up chunks of yards, can stop/start. Long strides. Really fun to watch.

Lots of timing of timing, reading a defender & precision between WR/QB so disrupting him off the los is key. You have to move him, put him on the ground. Let Wino, Simon or someone really lay into him once or twice. I wouldn't be surprised if Bill told his guys "Hey if you can hit him, anyone, within 5 yards, do it" or something to that effect. Stopping him isn't a one man job. I'd love to see our LB's lay some fear in him if they nothing else on the shallow crossers.






Definitely expect Gilly on him on 3rd down. 3rd downs have been enormous on both sides. Carr is 15/18, 2 TDs on 3rd down and just as good from 3rd & 5+ yards. So they're converting both run/pass.

They're running game has been so good on 1st/2nd down and putting them in good position. Jacobs is what we hoped Sony would be if we're being honest. Just a really good, instinctive inside runner. Tough, takes on & gives contact but also really good at getting skinny. Reducing his target. Great runner.


Carr still waits for guys to get open but seems to trust this group more. Seems to have a new attitude. Awareness, spacing will be key for our shallow/hook-MOF defenders. Carr has struggled with 2hi/C2 looks in the past but with Waller & now Ruggs it's tough to pull that off but I still expect to see some type run. Some variation that protects that player. We've run a similar "zone/man match" pattern as Oakland's DC Guenther before. I could see us in some split coverage/different coverage on each side depending on their formation, where Waller is. Something like C6 (combo coverage) Again Carr has had trouble with these looks in the past so expect the usual pressure up front married to the coverage to disrupt their timing and best players.

Still very suspect under pressure. Especially when it comes in waves imo. Which I expect on Sun. He can slide, step up, see some stuff coming but just shuts down at a certain point. He needs to see it coming and feel good about the pass.

Carr still gets flustered at times. He's not someone who can make it happen like Russ. Again he step up as rushers are pushed up field but the closer it gets the quicker he breaks down.


Their OL is very good-great but Bill will absolutely scheme up something like he always does. Disguise, overload he's getting to Carr. NO got to him early but just couldn't capitalize as a team.

Simpson looked a little shakey when he had to come in. Missed like 3 combo blocks that left Miller and others in a bad position. You can get after him. Hudson next to him as well. Really good in the run game but suspect in pass pro.

Miller looks good. Powerful, quick mover. Definitely who they envisioned when picking him that early. Great pass protector.

Got some luck, Ruggs is out! That's big news even though he's a rookie. He can play. Hopefully we get luckier and Waller is out or banged up for real. Carr and Ruggs are still figuring things out though. No camp, no time so it's understandable they're (Carr/Ruggs) aren't on the same page yet. I noticed a few times how open Ruggs was. The ran him on those deep overs at Bama and like Hill in KC he'll continue to take the top off.



Moreau isn't a bad #2 TE at all. Only like 20 rec his rookie year but 5 TD and Carr only passed for like 22. He's more than capable


I really expect a big bounce back from the defense. C2 variations to take away Carr's favorite spots & targets. I wouldn't be surprised to see a zombie front in obvious pass down to confuse Carr and take away his throwing lanes.

We've seen their stretch zone before. Their OL is a great group as a whole but we've been here before. At least mentally, we know what we're up against. Rams, SF ... Our staff is watching everyone. We have know-how. The question is if we have the personnel to match and execute for 4 quarters against a team committed to running the ball. Even on 3rd & 5 or we. They're confident and have the group to pull it off. They know their identity. Hopefully this defense responds in a big way and creates one of their own.
 
Last edited:
Big game.


@Jumosq
IMG_20200925_204243.png




He has a rep for a reason. Again complete opposite of Wilson. Not helpless, very good QB but needs a lot around him to make it work. Jimmy G category. I actually thought they were very similar coming out. Bridgewater as well. Mobile, accurate, quick release ... Good enough to win with, do a lot right but won't carry you.



 
Hard not to be excited about Dugger's potential.







I was curious about how the Dugger pick was viewed on draft night, so I reviewed the day 2 draft thread, to refresh my memory. I was pleasantly surprised to see that most posters here were generally optimistic about the choice and liked his potential. There were, of course, some notable exceptions.....it shouldn't surprise anyone that two of our resident player personnel experts (in their own minds), Captain and NG Pats Fan, immediately blasted the pick, despite never having seen Dugger play.

DC55C2A5-AA44-4C11-A535-5BB094C8D815.jpeg

83AFB8AA-0422-49CC-AB78-7AE4B490AD6E.jpeg

5DE3CD20-8A3E-4EAC-BD2D-064E5E00C8FE.jpeg


Nice calls, geniuses. This is what happens when 90% of your posts are fueled by an irrational hatred of BB the GM - you look like bitter fools.
 
Last edited:
Darren Waller is a name every draftnik knows well. Probably entered the game too early in the sense that the league wasn't ready for him in the sense of creativity and usage. He definitely wasn't ready for the league. Big time battle with substance abuse early on. Sounds and looks like different dude. Seems happy, humble, focused.
He broke last year, I still remember David Carr talking him up before last season. Obviously there was a connection there.

Waller is a feature force for Oakland. Gruden loves moving him around & Carr absolutely depends on him. There's a real trust there. Especially on 3rd down. Waller or Renfrow have Carr's trust. He's going his way or looking his way no matter what.

He's used everywhere. Inline, tight-reduced/slot, outside, motion. Eats up a cushion. Big time catch radius - definitely need length & quicks to defend. Esp in MOF on crossers & those option/leverage routes. Play him like the power forward he is. Try to get underneath, tight to the hip on crossers. It's about your position more than his. He'll kick in inside/outside depending on how the defender is playing him. Or Just keep going. He's so big, quick, fast, long he just creates natural separation with a step or hesitation by the defender. He can block too. At times he'll lock you out with those long arms. Inline, stalk block in the slot/tight formation.
He really moves. Explosive steps out, eats up chunks of yards, can stop/start. Long strides. Really fun to watch.

Lots of timing of timing, reading a defender & precision between WR/QB so disrupting him off the los is key. You have to move him, put him on the ground. Let Wino, Simon or someone really lay into him once or twice. I wouldn't be surprised if Bill told his guys "Hey if you can hit him, anyone, within 5 yards, do it" or something to that effect. Stopping him isn't a one man job. I'd love to see our LB's lay some fear in him if they nothing else on the shallow crossers.






Definitely expect Gilly on him on 3rd down. 3rd downs have been enormous on both sides. Carr is 15/18, 2 TDs on 3rd down and just as good from 3rd & 5+ yards. So they're converting both run/pass.

They're running game has been so good on 1st/2nd down and putting them in good position. Jacobs is what we hoped Sony would be if we're being honest. Just a really good, instinctive inside runner. Tough, takes on & gives contact but also really good at getting skinny. Reducing his target. Great runner.


Carr still waits for guys to get open but seems to trust this group more. Seems to have a new attitude. Awareness, spacing will be key for our shallow/hook-MOF defenders. Carr has struggled with 2hi/C2 looks in the past but with Waller & now Ruggs it's tough to pull that off but I still expect to see some type run. Some variation that protects that player. We've run a similar "zone/man match" pattern as Oakland's DC Guenther before. I could see us in some split coverage/different coverage on each side depending on their formation, where Waller is. Something like C6 (combo coverage) Again Carr has had trouble with these looks in the past so expect the usual pressure up front married to the coverage to disrupt their timing and best players.

Still very suspect under pressure. Especially when it comes in waves imo. Which I expect on Sun. He can slide, step up, see some stuff coming but just shuts down at a certain point. He needs to see it coming and feel good about the pass.

Carr still gets flustered at times. He's not someone who can make it happen like Russ. Again he step up as rushers are pushed up field but the closer it gets the quicker he breaks down.


Their OL is very good-great but Bill will absolutely scheme up something like he always does. Disguise, overload he's getting to Carr. NO got to him early but just couldn't capitalize as a team.

Simpson looked a little shakey when he had to come in. Missed like 3 combo blocks that left Miller and others in a bad position. You can get after him. Hudson next to him as well. Really good in the run game but suspect in pass pro.

Miller looks good. Powerful, quick mover. Definitely who they envisioned when picking him that early. Great pass protector.

Got some luck, Ruggs is out! That's big news even though he's a rookie. He can play. Hopefully we get luckier and Waller is out or banged up for real. Carr and Ruggs are still figuring things out though. No camp, no time so it's understandable they're (Carr/Ruggs) aren't on the same page yet. I noticed a few times how open Ruggs was. The ran him on those deep overs at Bama and like Hill in KC he'll continue to take the top off.



Moreau isn't a bad #2 TE at all. Only like 20 rec his rookie year but 5 TD and Carr only passed for like 22. He's more than capable


I really expect a big bounce back from the defense. C2 variations to take away Carr's favorite spots & targets. I wouldn't be surprised to see a zombie front in obvious pass down to confuse Carr and take away his throwing lanes.

We've seen their stretch zone before. Their OL is a great group as a whole but we've been here before. At least mentally, we know what we're up against. Rams, SF ... Our staff is watching everyone. We have know-how. The question is if we have the personnel to match and execute for 4 quarters against a team committed to running the ball. Even on 3rd & 5 or we. They're confident and have the group to pull it off. They know their identity. Hopefully this defense responds in a big way and creates one of their own.

Oakland's OL is a dominant at times but a little banged up. Simpson is a rookie. No camp. Definitely not up to speed. In NFL game shape yet. He's someone you have to target when the opportunity presents itself. Both in the run game & in pass pro.


Jacobs really is Kamara-lite. I described Sony as a more powerful Kamara when he was coming out. Many others thought the same. Just a different guy from college, 180. https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/989938682172968966?s=19

Anyway JJ has been fantastic. That OL deserves a ton of credit but he's a special runner. Quick, tough, vision - reading multiple levels. He does a great job at becoming smaller as a ball carrier. Reducing a small target as it is.
More than enough speed to beat you on outside-stretch plays. Just a natural, pure running back.


Oh he can hurt you in the rec game as well.
 
Oakland's OL is a dominant at times but a little banged up. Simpson is a rookie. No camp. Definitely not up to speed. In NFL game shape yet. He's someone you have to target when the opportunity presents itself. Both in the run game & in pass pro.


Jacobs really is Kamara-lite. I described Sony as a more powerful Kamara when he was coming out. Many others thought the same. Just a different guy from college, 180.

Anyway JJ has been fantastic. That OL deserves a ton of credit but he's a special runner. Quick, tough, vision - reading multiple levels. He does a great job at becoming smaller as a ball carrier. Reducing a small target as it is.
More than enough speed to beat you on outside-stretch plays. Just a natural, pure running back.


Oh he can hurt you in the rec game as well.


Glad I'm not the only one who thought Michel was going to be a really special player here.

What do you think the issue has been? Coaching/technique (perhaps related to ball security)? Conditioning/weight? Something else entirely?
 
Glad I'm not the only one who thought Michel was going to be a really special player here.

What do you think the issue has been? Coaching/technique (perhaps related to ball security)? Conditioning/weight? Something else entirely?
I mean I'd bet most people thought he'd be a special player. He was borderline great at UG. Injuries were the only thing stopping him. He split time but Smart is notorious for wanting to keep his backs fresh. There was nothing else besides fumbles.

I have no doubt someone else would've taken him top 40-45 if we didn't pick him. He wasn't lasting long. Plus at the time we had a much different team, immediate future ... I'm on record of saying it wouldn't have been my pick but I was excited as hell at the thought of adding a dynamic, 3 down back to this offense with his skill set. I understood the pick even though it wouldn't have been my call.

He was a powerful runner who could lower his shoulder or elude you. + Pass pro, he was willing & loved contributing there. Had no problem stepping up on a DT. He was an electric player.
The Kamara comp wasn't just one or two people. Many saw the same prospect-type in the two players.






All the experts had a top 40-50 grade on him. Mayock had him at 32. Matt Miller 33, RB3 behind SQB & Guice. PFF 46. Kiper had a 2nd on him. I had a 2nd on him. Lance Zierlein had a 6.40-starter within two years.

Bucky Brooks "Jones and Michel can carry the load as runners. Teams could also find them enticing due to their potential as mismatches in the passing game."

Just a completely different player as you can see above. More twitch, juice. He was listed at 215 in college but again it's obvious he's not moving the same. At least to me it is. If I'm wrong on a player pretending or ignoring the obvious won't help me improve in the future. Have to admit when you miss. I have no problem with that but they look like two different players imo. I could see it being a those injuries just adding up. Never know how they really effect you or when the body just has had enough. These guys never properly heal & recover. I could see it being that and again I don't see the twitch he had at UG.
 
Darren Waller is a name every draftnik knows well. Probably entered the game too early in the sense that the league wasn't ready for him in the sense of creativity and usage. He definitely wasn't ready for the league. Big time battle with substance abuse early on. Sounds and looks like different dude. Seems happy, humble, focused.
He broke last year, I still remember David Carr talking him up before last season. Obviously there was a connection there.

Waller is a feature force for Oakland. Gruden loves moving him around & Carr absolutely depends on him. There's a real trust there. Especially on 3rd down. Waller or Renfrow have Carr's trust. He's going his way or looking his way no matter what.

He's used everywhere. Inline, tight-reduced/slot, outside, motion. Eats up a cushion. Big time catch radius - definitely need length & quicks to defend. Esp in MOF on crossers & those option/leverage routes. Play him like the power forward he is. Try to get underneath, tight to the hip on crossers. It's about your position more than his. He'll kick in inside/outside depending on how the defender is playing him. Or Just keep going. He's so big, quick, fast, long he just creates natural separation with a step or hesitation by the defender. He can block too. At times he'll lock you out with those long arms. Inline, stalk block in the slot/tight formation.
He really moves. Explosive steps out, eats up chunks of yards, can stop/start. Long strides. Really fun to watch.

Lots of timing of timing, reading a defender & precision between WR/QB so disrupting him off the los is key. You have to move him, put him on the ground. Let Wino, Simon or someone really lay into him once or twice. I wouldn't be surprised if Bill told his guys "Hey if you can hit him, anyone, within 5 yards, do it" or something to that effect. Stopping him isn't a one man job. I'd love to see our LB's lay some fear in him if they nothing else on the shallow crossers.






Definitely expect Gilly on him on 3rd down. 3rd downs have been enormous on both sides. Carr is 15/18, 2 TDs on 3rd down and just as good from 3rd & 5+ yards. So they're converting both run/pass.







Moreau isn't a bad #2 TE at all. Only like 20 rec his rookie year but 5 TD and Carr only passed for like 22. He's more than capable

Yeah Waller definitely wasn't the 204th-best player in the 2015 draft...He was a top-130-caliber athlete who fell for reasons that became apparent during his first 4 years in the league...too immature, too much partying...But he was a 22-year-old junior at GA Tech who turned 23 early in his rookie season, so I can understand why he left school with one more year of eligibility remaining...So even if Bill had taken him instead of AJ Derby at 202, the chances were fairly good that he wouldn't have lasted the entirety of his rookie contract here anyway...Good on him & Gruden/Mayock for turning his career around...

As for Foster Moreau: Why can't we get guys like that? Oh wait...
 
Last edited:
Just a completely different player as you can see above. More twitch, juice. He was listed at 215 in college but again it's obvious he's not moving the same. At least to me it is. If I'm wrong on a player pretending or ignoring the obvious won't help me improve in the future. Have to admit when you miss. I have no problem with that but they look like two different players imo. I could see it being a those injuries just adding up. Never know how they really effect you or when the body just has had enough. These guys never properly heal & recover. I could see it being that and again I don't see the twitch he had at UG.

I am notoriously bad at estimating weights of players so do you have a reasonable guess at what he played in his first two years ?
 
I am notoriously bad at estimating weights of players so do you have a reasonable guess at what he played in his first two years ?
Believe he's always been listed at 215. He's gained weight a few times after surgeries though. So I wonder how much they took out of him but also the fact that he's constantly trying to "get in shape" after them as well. He gained a few extra pounds after his latest one (foot) .

He's been listed at 215 since his FO/SO year in college I believe. He does look. & move different though.

I mean this was his last year, literally months before he was drafted. Idk it's frustrating and tough to explain.
 


On Josh Allen's improvement, from mechanics to decision-making.
 
OL -
Wynn was very good. I'd give him a B/B+. He pushed guys up field all day and showed very good quickness running the arc. Buried his man on that pretty sweet Cam scramble. Check out the climb here by him & Thuney here off lead zone. Great block by Asiasi taking DE.


Mason had a great kick out block on Rex TD. He was great slipping off initial block. He was excellent today. Probably our best OL'm along with Thuney today? He was big time in the run game.


Thuney was outstanding in space. I thought 72/71 played a pretty clean games as well. 71 has shown a lot of versatility so far with no camp. He's been great. Big time contributions from a lot of different positions and tasks.

Sony ran hard but was more patient overall. Rex might be our most versatile RB. Taylor ran well. Keep it going. I mentioned that our OL strength(s) is the athleticism they bring. Extremely athletic group. We killed Oak with Crack/Toss & OZ today. We have to let the OL do what they do best and the running game will take care of itself.


Cam has had 2-3 batted passes to Wynn's side. Has to manipulate the situation better/use his eyes. Next time Wynn gets a "jumper" he needs to put that guy on his ass. He made a few mistakes but was good enough with a few timely scrambles. 2 bad mistakes but fortunately Oak beat themselves a lot of the day and we didn't

That was definitely the story of the first half. Oak should of had another 7 at least but with flags and fumbles they pissed it away.

Would like to see how much C2/2hi looks we ran today. Before the year I thought we see more league-wide and maybe us. I couldn't count but we ran it a few times today and Carr traditionally has had some trouble. DMC played eyes down in the red zone on that tipped pass. Carr has slow eyes going through his progressions in MOF and you saw it there.

Continue to see some issues handling mesh/shallow crossers. We're not as tight as we could/should be. Have to be better with the group we have.

Bentley continues to disappoint. No flow, bad fits. No Change of direction. I posted a lowlight video a few pages back and it hasn't got better. Before the year I talked a little about what his responsibilities will be and he's struggled in almost all areas. Few decent plays in coverage but those are few and far between. Like 1-2 a game for 5 poor plays. He's yet to take a rep where that really stood out as something you can point to and say "ok we'll be ok".

Harry was awful last week blocking in Seattle. Much better today. I thought that cheap shot last week was his best looking route so far but that play on Arnette was his best to date imo. Sharp, made a play after the catch. Hopefully we see more of that.

Talked about the trust Carr has for Renfrow and you saw it on that big play. Renfrow isn't just a guy. Tough, smart as hell. Such a student of the game. Vets and rookies pick his brain hes that knowledgeable and good. No idea why he isn't here learning from 11! Talk about perfect Patriot.


Can't wait to see the Waller coverage. Literally only heard about him when Tony brought him up. Great job. Bill B special right there. When we saw that pic early this week you just knew he was coming for blood against Gruden & Oak. Oakland made a lot of mistakes today but Bill came out prepared and credit to the defense for 3-4 big plays today.

OL continues to be the star of the show. Oakland isn't intimidating but throw a lot at you and we didn't flinch. Banged up without DA (top 10 C so far) and we didn't flinch.

Onwenu deserves mention again. We're asking him to play multiple positions. Run, pass block, get in space, run. Extra OL, G & RT so far and absolutely crushing it.

Rec was great. Get him more rec early on please. Out wide, screens, zone ... Get him moving in space. Again might be our most versatile back.

Looked like JC played a heck of a game as well! Continuing to climb the latter as a legit top 10-12 CB.

Biggest news is we could be 3-0. We're competing with different teams. Winning different ways. Nothing has been easy so far but we've responded and looked like a team all 3 games.

Can't wait to watch this one again.
 
Dan "RPO was invented to make zone defense unplayable" Orlovsky. He's


This is a beautiful play. Maybe our most well executed/designed runs all year. I love this stuff.
Lead Zone - well designed but better execution!
Asiasi turns around the DE allowing Wynn to climb & carry his man out the picture. Check out Wynn's foot firing feet letting the play develop, nice patience. Thuney climbs and clears some serious space. 72 gains inside hands and moves his man 5 yards off the ball.


We had like 3-4 highlight runs this week. Congrats to the RB's. They all came up huge and helped out the OL. WR/TE were very good. Edleman has been great his whole career. So underrated there. Harry redeemed himself after last week's poor blocking performance. He was a lil dinged up and had a decent-good overall game. Loved what I saw today from him on a few plays.

 
Last edited:
Talked a little bit about defending Waller above and we were top notch today. It's all about disrupting his and Carr's timing. Taking away leverage and attacking him with different bodies/looks. Great job today. Second clip speaks to the preparation the defense put in all week.


This was great Cam - "Aye yo you got him" Zuber "Yup yup yup". Great reach block by Thuney. 75 looked good in limited action. Can't wait to look at the A22



C2 - let's your DB's crash on outside stuff. Not a fav of Carr.


Had a 2nd round grade in Wino and so pumped to see him here and showing out. Loves this double swipe. Flattens out to dip under the tackle. Has that flexibility/bend as well to threaten the arc. He's been one of our top 3-5 defenders this year.


Another play that gets me fired up. Thuney reaching his man, first game at C as a pro and he was so good! Wynn clearing the edge.
 


Patriots News 4-28, Draft Notes On Every Draft Pick
MORSE: A Closer Look at the Patriots Undrafted Free Agents
Five Thoughts on the Patriots Draft Picks: Overall, Wolf Played it Safe
2024 Patriots Undrafted Free Agents – FULL LIST
MORSE: Thoughts on Patriots Day 3 Draft Results
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots Head Coach Jerod Mayo Post-Draft Press Conference
2024 Patriots Draft Picks – FULL LIST
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots CB Marcellas Dial’s Conference Call with the New England Media
So Far, Patriots Wolf Playing It Smart Through Five Rounds
Wolf, Patriots Target Chemistry After Adding WR Baker
Back
Top