Will Marcus Cannon/Slater be on the team during 2019 season?

[p8ryts]

Very curious as Slater is aging and Marcus Cannon has an out and I need to know your opinions on this for a discussion I am having. Google search obviously won't predict future and I prefer your opinions since this site is really reliable. Thanks in advance!

If they want to be

 

[mcmurtry86]

I don't believe there will be. I think it will be the normal level of turnover. The Pats have 44 players signed currently. Yes, there are some big names that are free agents (Trent Brown, Gostkowski, Allen, Flowers) but some of the free agents never took a snap for the Pats like Schwenke and John.

Both starting DT and 3 of the top 4 WR (excluding Gordon). Not to mention Gronk’s situation and likely a couple cuts of bigger name players to free up funds to pay some of these guys. Then you have guys like J.McCourty who won’t be huge losses but are valuable contributors and hard to replace cheaply (despite his occasional struggles he was a solid #2 CB which is hard to find with a rookie, JC Jackson aside).

Potentially an entirely new DL (assuming Clayborn is cut), and almost entirely new WR group.

It will be a lot of turnover. They only have 20M to spend which isn’t enough for Flowers, Brown and Gostkowski alone let alone a couple of WR and DT

 

[mcmurtry86]

Need to draft (Or sign) an O.T. By the sounds of it, D-Mac will need to restructure his deal in order to stay here. I think the time is right to draft (Or sign) a starting Tight End. Gronk will be 30 next season. Despite yesterday, he hasn't shown the same quickness he once did. Team desperately needs to upgrade the D.T position. Get the next Wilfork along side Flowers (Who I think must be re-signed). I think Burkehead will be released in the offseason. He's injury prone and is a redundant player. Jeremy Hill is more than capable of taking his place.

Burkhead has his durability issues but he’s a much better and different player than Hill - who is also a FA coming off an ACL tear. Not sure why a little extra cap space is worth the downgrade at RB.

If you want to free up cap, start with the guys making real money (D.McCourty, Hightower, Gronk, Clayborn)

 

[Deus Irae]

I think it would make sense to move on from Cannon and move Trent Brown back to RT. Brown can be inconsistent but overall I think he's good enough and probably won't command a lot of money. We drafted Wynn high and I do believe long term they see Wynn as a LT despite his small size.

If you can keep Brown for a fair wage, why not use Cannon, Brown and Wynn as your OTs for 2019 in a manner similar to how they used Light, Solder and Vollmer in 2011 (before Vollmer got hurt)?

 

[mgteich]

I'm fine with Brown being re-signed. I do think that it will take significant compensation. I'm all fine with Wynn hopefully starting at LT.

HOWEVER, there is exactly ZERO reason to cut Cannon. Cannon has been a starter or top backup for several years. That is a fine position for him. I do NOT want to look for 2 backups for 2019. Cannon is just fine.

I think it would make sense to move on from Cannon and move Trent Brown back to RT. Brown can be inconsistent but overall I think he's good enough and probably won't command a lot of money. We drafted Wynn high and I do believe long term they see Wynn as a LT despite his small size.

 

[mgteich]

How many years will it take posters to understand that running backs sometimes get injured?

We could use a backup. Let's sign Hill if we can. Hill can compete with Bulkhead for reps.

Burkhead has his durability issues but he’s a much better and different player than Hill - who is also a FA coming off an ACL tear. Not sure why a little extra cap space is worth the downgrade at RB.

 

[maineman209]

Need to draft (Or sign) an O.T. By the sounds of it, D-Mac will need to restructure his deal in order to stay here. I think the time is right to draft (Or sign) a starting Tight End. Gronk will be 30 next season. Despite yesterday, he hasn't shown the same quickness he once did. Team desperately needs to upgrade the D.T position. Get the next Wilfork along side Flowers (Who I think must be re-signed). I think Burkehead will be released in the offseason. He's injury prone and is a redundant player. Jeremy Hill is more than capable of taking his place.

Can't really project much about TE or DE until we have more information about Gronk and Flowers to make an informed prognosis. While it seems likely that the Pats could draft to both positions, since both seem fairly thin even if Gronk and Flowers both stay, we'll need to see how free agency plays out first.

The Pats appear to have already begun preparing for the potential departure of T. Brown (and probably Waddle). They signed OT Dan Skipper (6095/315) to the PS on the 8th (another Bielema/Arkansas recruit), and just yesterday signed Ryker Matthews (6054/320), who started 19 games at RT this season for Hamilton (CFL), to a futures contract. They also have Wynn, of course, plus Ulrick John (6057/310) on IR. John, who may well have beaten out Waddle for the backup swing-tackle spot before tearing a tendon in his foot late in Camp, might be re-signed for the veteran minimum.

The Pats now also have a few IOL backup candidates close at hand besides Karras (and Ferentz), with Jake Eldrenkamp (futures contract), Tony Adams (Psquad), Croston (Psquad), and Schwenke (IR).

DMac is highly likely to stick around whether he restructures or not, although I suspect he agrees to a one-year extension to lower his 2019 cap hit. The current secondary has become far too good, especially with the emergence of JC Jackson, to break up now. I also suspect that JMac will be offered a new two-year deal to re-sign. In terms of candidates to develop for the future replacement of DMac and Chung, the Pats have Melifonwu, AJ Howard (also signed to the PS on Jan 8th), and it's possible that Duke Dawson could be groomed for a safety role.

David Parry (6012/315), who was the starting NT for Indy for two seasons, was also signed to a futures contract on Jan 9th, and the Pats have DT Frank Herron (6033/305) on the PS most of the season (originally a 2018 UDFA for the Pats). They could also re-sign either (or both) of Shelton and M. Brown, probably for relatively low money. Getting "the next Wilfork" in the draft is highly unlikely to happen, but the team has some affordable fallback options, at least.

It seems highly unlikely to me that the Pats would cut Burkhead. He's versatile (running, catching, special teams) and relatively cheap (only $3m/year). Plus, the Pats have typically carried five RBs on the roster (including Bolden on ST), and even that wasn't enough in 2015. The Pats played one game this season when the RBs were White, Barner and Patterson, and I doubt they want to press their luck going forward. Re-signing Hill would only bring the RB count back up to four.

None of the above precludes the Pats drafting the BPA at any of these positions. It just means that they're not quite "desperate". They rarely are, going into the draft, and they've already begun building the 2019 off-season roster in advance of that.

 

[mgteich]

Guy, Butler, Wise, Rivers and Davis will be back (and probably Kamalu).

Obviously, DE and DT are the top free agent priority. However, I could see us re-signing Flowers and one of Brown or Shelton. We would then still draft a DL or two.

For me, this is NOT a entirely new DL.

.

Potentially an entirely new DL (assuming Clayborn is cut).

 

[mgteich]

OT
Sure, we are doing what we can to bring in backups to compete with Waddle. IMHO, we still need a top-level swing OT. We have a very good OL coming back, with Wynn instead of Brown. However, I think that we should pay the money to bring back Brown so that we have 5 faulty backs if we have an injury.

IOL
As is usually the case, we will try to upgrade our backups. We need 2. We have Karras, Croston and Schwenke. We have already signed some camp competition. We'll likely bring in a veteran.

Can't really project much about TE or DE until we have more information about Gronk and Flowers to make an informed prognosis. While it seems likely that the Pats could draft to both positions, since both seem fairly thin even if Gronk and Flowers both stay, we'll need to see how free agency plays out first.

The Pats appear to have already begun preparing for the potential departure of T. Brown (and probably Waddle). They signed OT Dan Skipper (6095/315) to the PS on the 8th (another Bielema/Arkansas recruit), and just yesterday signed Ryker Matthews (6054/320), who started 19 games at RT this season for Hamilton (CFL), to a futures contract. They also have Wynn, of course, plus Ulrick John (6057/310) on IR. John, who may well have beaten out Waddle for the backup swing-tackle spot before tearing a tendon in his foot late in Camp, might be re-signed for the veteran minimum.

The Pats now also have a few IOL backup candidates close at hand besides Karras (and Ferentz), with Jake Eldrenkamp (futures contract), Tony Adams (Psquad), Croston (Psquad), and Schwenke (IR).

DMac is highly likely to stick around whether he restructures or not, although I suspect he agrees to a one-year extension to lower his 2019 cap hit. The current secondary has become far too good, especially with the emergence of JC Jackson, to break up now. I also suspect that JMac will be offered a new two-year deal to re-sign. In terms of candidates to develop for the future replacement of DMac and Chung, the Pats have Melifonwu, AJ Howard (also signed to the PS on Jan 8th), and it's possible that Duke Dawson could be groomed for a safety role.

David Parry (6012/315), who was the starting NT for Indy for two seasons, was also signed to a futures contract on Jan 9th, and the Pats have DT Frank Herron (6033/305) on the PS most of the season (originally a 2018 UDFA for the Pats). They could also re-sign either (or both) of Shelton and M. Brown, probably for relatively low money. Getting "the next Wilfork" in the draft is highly unlikely to happen, but the team has some affordable fallback options, at least.

It seems highly unlikely to me that the Pats would cut Burkhead. He's versatile (running, catching, special teams) and relatively cheap (only $3m/year). Plus, the Pats have typically carried five RBs on the roster (including Bolden on ST), and even that wasn't enough in 2015. The Pats played one game this season when the RBs were White, Barner and Patterson, and I doubt they want to press their luck going forward. Re-signing Hill would only bring the RB count back up to four.

None of the above precludes the Pats drafting the BPA at any of these positions. It just means that they're not quite "desperate". They rarely are, going into the draft, and they've already begun building the 2019 off-season roster in advance of that.

 

[SBLIII]

Cannon for sure imo. Slater less likely.

 

[SBLIII]

OT
Sure, we are doing what we can to bring in backups to compete with Waddle. IMHO, we still need a top-level swing OT. We have a very good OL coming back, with Wynn instead of Brown. However, I think that we should pay the money to bring back Brown so that we have 5 faulty backs if we have an injury.

IOL
As is usually the case, we will try to upgrade our backups. We need 2. We have Karras, Croston and Schwenke. We have already signed some camp competition. We'll likely bring in a veteran.

If we can afford it, I would certainly do it. But I wonder if we can re-sign all our key pieces and bring in some other solid FAs. Not sure if the cap allows it. I'd certainly rather re-sign Flowers if I had to decide though.

 

[mgteich]

The priority needs to be to re-sign our own. We can certainly afford to re-sign Flowers and Brown (and McCourty, J Jones, Gostkowski and Allen).

If we can afford it, I would certainly do it. But I wonder if we can re-sign all our key pieces and bring in some other solid FAs. Not sure if the cap allows it. I'd certainly rather re-sign Flowers if I had to decide though.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I appreciate these responses guys. Very helpful / insightful

 

[maineman209]

If we can afford it, I would certainly do it. But I wonder if we can re-sign all our key pieces and bring in some other solid FAs. Not sure if the cap allows it. I'd certainly rather re-sign Flowers if I had to decide though.

I agree with @mgteich that in-house free agents should be the priority. Lotta proven solid contributors there who already know the systems and schemes. After Flowers and T.Brown (who I suspect may not be getting the huge contract offers that some others think he will), the most expensive re-signing seems likely to be Gostkowski, in terms of 2019 cap hit - possibly somewhere around $5.0m. Most of the rest seem likely to each hit the cap for between $1.75m and $3.75m ...

RFAs Kamalu & Jon Jones
Ryan Allen
JMac
Patterson
Dorsett
M. Brown and/or Shelton

There will need to be some not-insignificant restructurings/extensions to make it all happen, but it's do-able.

And UFAs like Simon, Hill, Schwenke, McClellan, and Ulrick John might be signed to veteran minimum contracts, which, collectively, would barely make a dent in the off-season cap number, if they even hit the top-51 at all.

Unless the Pats fail to retain one (or both) of Flowers and T.Brown, there probably won't be enough cap space to make any big-splash signings of outside FAs, but I'm not sure it's necessary. Although there are a couple of holes, it's a pretty strong roster - almost ideal for adding a bunch of rookies without having to rely on immediate production from most of them.

 

[long distance]

Pats can be very happy to have Cannon on that contract.

The priority needs to be to re-sign our own. We can certainly afford to re-sign Flowers and Brown (and McCourty, J Jones, Gostkowski and Allen).

I wonder what are your price tags this year? Seems like a 180 flip from last yr. I respect your posting but last year you suggested Waddle (and Fleming iirc) would be out of Pats price range (your market suggestion for one of them was something like 4y/24M iirc) and now you're saying patriots can certainly afford both T.Brown and T.Flowers - who are both top FAs at their positions? And these are two most expensive positions in the league outside QB.

@ Flowers
Before the season Flowers' price tag was projected 10-12M apy very conservatively by OTC, on the account that he is not pure pass rusher. During the season respect for Flowers has grown significantly esp. factoring enormous respect he has across the league as most complete edge defender in the game. After a monster season and postseason the reality of his next contract starts with FT value which will be north of 18M.

@Mount Brown
The fact that they didn't/couldn't sign him to extension during the season and let him play the contract year suggested to me that it will indeed be one and done with him like it could be expected upon trade. They drafted Wynn for that spot in the future. It would be great to have both going forward from fans perspective but it rarely works like that in this league esp at LT.

And i wonder what is your perception of Brown's market? He will be the top FA on LT market. You do remember how much Solder got last year? Brown played at least at that level imo and he is much younger. Im not saying it will be that high but i wouldn't be surprised looking at extremely poor LT market again . and top teams losing seasons w poor OL.

Even bringing back Waddle (or signing back Fleming) is not a given this yr. But I dont worry a bit until Dante is here. In any case NE is prepared for this and signing Ryker Matthews (6'6-322 w TE experience) is a first step in direction of selecting new quality back up group..


While NE can afford a couple of new big contracts esp. if Gronk retires but also on account of very healthy cap situation in 2020 - bringing these two back would be extremely expensive and hard on 2019 cap.

My guess is they will try to be competitive to bring back Flowers but seeing teams with piles of cap (incl in division NYJ=100M, BUF=87M) i expect Flowers to be a very rich man and NE will be bringing next man up. There is an option of FT but i doubt there is a sense in that. Maybe they could try transition tag (north of 15M) to avoid the crazy start of FA and be in position to just match his best offer - but im afraid the end result will be the same..

 

[203Pat]

I think Cannon is gone and Slater is back.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with all of your analysis.

For me, I would make McClellan a priority. He has been excellent on Special Teams.

Also, is Kamalu an RFA or a UFA?

I would note that we could franchise Gostkowski if necessary.

I agree with @mgteich that in-house free agents should be the priority. Lotta proven solid contributors there who already know the systems and schemes. After Flowers and T.Brown (who I suspect may not be getting the huge contract offers that some others think he will), the most expensive re-signing seems likely to be Gostkowski, in terms of 2019 cap hit - possibly somewhere around $5.0m. Most of the rest seem likely to each hit the cap for between $1.75m and $3.75m ...

RFAs Kamalu & Jon Jones
Ryan Allen
JMac
Patterson
Dorsett
M. Brown and/or Shelton

There will need to be some not-insignificant restructurings/extensions to make it all happen, but it's do-able.

And UFAs like Simon, Hill, Schwenke, McClellan, and Ulrick John might be signed to veteran minimum contracts, which, collectively, would barely make a dent in the off-season cap number, if they even hit the top-51 at all.

Unless the Pats fail to retain one (or both) of Flowers and T.Brown, there probably won't be enough cap space to make any big-splash signings of outside FAs, but I'm not sure it's necessary. Although there are a couple of holes, it's a pretty strong roster - almost ideal for adding a bunch of rookies without having to rely on immediate production from most of them.

 

[maineman209]

Also, is Kamalu an RFA or a UFA?

Actually, maybe neither.

At the time I started filling out my spreadsheet, OTC had him listed as RFA. Apparently, when he was promoted, he was given a contract through 2020 that pays him $645k in 2019 and $800k in 2020. At least, that's how OTC now has Kamalu listed.

 

[DaBruinz]

Need to draft (Or sign) an O.T. By the sounds of it, D-Mac will need to restructure his deal in order to stay here. I think the time is right to draft (Or sign) a starting Tight End. Gronk will be 30 next season. Despite yesterday, he hasn't shown the same quickness he once did. Team desperately needs to upgrade the D.T position. Get the next Wilfork along side Flowers (Who I think must be re-signed). I think Burkehead will be released in the offseason. He's injury prone and is a redundant player. Jeremy Hill is more than capable of taking his place.

They drafted an OT in Wynn..

Jeremy Hill is a UFA.

 

[DaBruinz]

@maineman209 - Just a couple of minor points:
Ulrick John and Brian Schwenke are both UFA so you can't really count them..