Idle thoughts- the sad day edition

[rookBoston]

Problem with drafting WR is that the Pats run a scheme that is unlike anything in the College game. Makes it hard to project a college player into the system. I think the critical skill is the be able to make the real-time decisions on option routes based on how the D is playing-- for that you need terrific vision, field smarts, a strategic mind and mental decisiveness. Then, the physical quickness, hands, speed, etc. How many players have all of the above?

Dobson's problem is not mental aptitude (or he would have been gone long before now), and it's not measurables, because his measurables are excellent. It's not his mindset or work ethic, because those are pretty decent (or he would have been gone long before now). His problem is just that he doesn't play to his measurables-- he's tall, but plays small.

The Patriots hit rate in drafting WR is pretty bad, but their hit rate in recruiting FA veteran WRs is pretty bad, too. So the issue isn't so much a question of College Scouting or Talent Evaluation. The thing is that the Pats run a system that is very hard to recruit for. Nature doesn't create a lot of human beings that have all the prerequisites for success in the system

Remember that Edelman and Amendola both took a number of years to figure out how to play the position for the Pats. And, Amendola looked like a huge bust in the system after his first year+... he only really turned the corner last year.

Pats ask a lot of players at the position. Maybe too much.

 

[Gronkowski123]

i agree with the idea that marty has been disappointing. he just seems slow in and out of his breaks.
then he casually strolls back into the huddle.

jimmy better throw him the ball otherwise he might check out.

 

[Danger Zone]

My advice for the patriots when they draft future wide receivers would be to choose a player with great measurables (height speed length) who were very productive in the stat sheet in college. No more what ifs. Draft a WR who showed in college they were elite

I havent payed attention the last year or so to know if their success at finding WRs has held up but even so the Patriots should think about paying big money to lure away whomever is doing the Steelers WR scouting/drafting decision making.

 

[rookBoston]

What have you seen in Kuhn that makes you want to keep him? I haven't seen anything.

Hard for an interior lineman to stand out in this scheme. His job is to control his gaps and stand up his man so the Longs and Sheards can stunt behind him, and the Mingos and Collinses can shoot into the backfield. What I've seen from him is that he's been playing against first teamers, holding his position, not getting turned, not getting gouged for 15 yard runs, not letting mobile QBs out of the pocket. There's little glamor to be had, absent causing a buttfumble every now and then, or securing a tackle for loss.

 

[patsfan13]

Agreed although I truly believe Chad Ocho Cincos problem was he was way past his prime physically when he came to New England. His legs were gone. People forget this. Ocho was physically finished by 2011. He did nothing after leaving New England.

Do you think the prime chad Ocho of 2004-2008 would have struggled as much in patriots offense? I don't think so. I think he was so athletic in his prime he would have found a way to get wide open and Brady would have found him. Not a fit in our offense but Brady would be successful with ANY elite WR in his prime.

The Pats receivers can run 3+ different routes on each play depending on coverage alignment, the WR had to make the same read as Brady each time Ocho couldn't do that, as opposed to Deion Branch Edleman ect. That is the issue, Chad Jackson, DOug Gabriel ect.

 

[DaBruinz]

Hard for an interior lineman to stand out in this scheme. His job is to control his gaps and stand up his man so the Longs and Sheards can stunt behind him, and the Mingos and Collinses can shoot into the backfield. What I've seen from him is that he's been playing against first teamers, holding his position, not getting turned, not getting gouged for 15 yard runs, not letting mobile QBs out of the pocket. There's little glamor to be had, absent causing a buttfumble every now and then, or securing a tackle for loss.

Go back and watch the Giants game, please. Kuhn most certainly was getting turned. Getting pushed out of his lane. And not holding his position. If you focus on the DTs, you'll see that regardless of who he is out there with, Kuhn is the one looking like crap..

 

[patchick]

Remember that Edelman and Amendola both took a number of years to figure out how to play the position for the Pats. And, Amendola looked like a huge bust in the system after his first year+... he only really turned the corner last year.

I totally agree with you on most points, but I'm not sold on "it takes years." Young players certainly learn and grow in the system over time, but it seems to me that new receivers either show signs of clicking in this offense early or they never do. (Amendola played his first year with a nasty ongoing injury and still put up 54 catches in 12 games; Edelman logged 37 catches in 11 games as a 7th-round rookie who had never played the position before.)

 

[patsfan13]

I totally agree with you on most points, but I'm not sold on "it takes years." Young players certainly learn and grow in the system over time, but it seems to me that new receivers either show signs of clicking in this offense early or they never do. (Amendola played his first year with a nasty ongoing injury and still put up 54 catches in 12 games; Edelman logged 37 catches in 11 games as a 7th-round rookie who had never played the position before.)

Randy Moss came out of the gate pretty fast also, but his football IQ was off the charts.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

What the Pat's are looking for in a WR, is not only one who can catch, but one who can block. They always point to David Givens as a great example. A 7th round pick, he had average size, speed, but he had a knack for getting open and blocked like a lineman. Watch Dobson horrific blocking effort on screen passes. I can't see the Pat's wasting another year on this guy. Sure he might thrive in a different system if he can stay healthy, but I think the Pat's have seen enough of Dobson.

 

[captain stone]

...There was one guy emerging more and more each day quietly making more field, more plays, staying strangely under the radar. He showed a heroic performance yesterday. I see in him a true Patriot. He is Elandon Roberts and due to unbelievable depth at LB he is not projected to make the 53. Losing him would really make me sad.

Normally he should make it through waivers but we saw with Humber that there are LB hungry teams out there and they know they can get good ones from BB. He looked hurt last night playing through injury. I know its selfish and unsportsmanlike but I almost hope they put him on IR.

Elandon Roberts can't cover and he can't tackle. He's a PS body, at best.

I had him on my Pats Picker 53 until the Vagiants game, but he just kept not covering and not tackling
again and again, same as the Panthers game.