Idle thoughts- the sad day edition

[FreeTedWilliams]

While I love what we have seen with Brissett, I would like to ask how hard is it for a big armed QB to learn touch?

It seems to be one of the things he is lacking, certainly Mallett continued to struggle with it, but isn't this something that should already have been addressed in college?

How about other NFL* QBs with big arms? Are there examples of ones who had this issue and overcame it?

As long as you know you are getting the fastball everytime, a catcher can always come up with it. If you throw them a change up and they are unaware that it's coming, the you have issues.

Elway had a cannon, and it was more his receivers getting used to it, than he learning to put some tough on the ball. I like what I see in Brisket and think with a couple of years seasoning, could really be something.

 

[patfanken]

The best part is he was supposed to be a kid with awful mechanics and shaky on-field decision making but off-the-charts intangibles. He knows how to cope with not playing (he had to sit out a year in college after transferring) and he'll put in the work to get better and better.

Yes, PC, he's the guy. He's the one who will follow the GOAT. After Josh takes Jimmy to his new team next year and give us back our #1 pick, Jacoby will spend a few more years learning the offense while Tom plays out the string. At least so far, his decision making is one his better attribute, as he's throw the ball away on several occasion when nothing was there, and gone to secondary receivers many times. IN TIME I think he's going to be a good one. I just don't want him to have to take a meaningful snap THIS season.

That's the dream for this season, PC, watch Tom Brady take the Lombardi from Goodell, then good into next year with a top 10 #1 draft pick AND our own, over $60 MM in cap space, PLUS knowing we FINALLY have our heir apparent on the roster. How's THAT for a dream season...and it's nice to know that with a little luck, it can happen, JUST LIKE THAT.

 

[reflexblue]

Great post as always Ken, i had the same thought on Brisset, he is bradys heir. He has everything you want in a qb. The arm, the pressence, grace under pressure, the intelligence etc. but he also seems to have "IT', that intangible quality that winners have, thats so hard to find, at least hes had it in the two games ive watched him play.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Qbs like Bledsoe NEVER learned touch.
He had a decent career.
Brisket, unlike Drew is coachable. He'll learn.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree. It's simply a matter of time and more reps. What did BB say in his post game talk to the idiots. "I don't see how you can get better WITHOUT playing football" Well Butler has been out there now for 2 full years playing football and getting better, and we've had the pleasure of watching it. The SAME goes for Ryan. Why is every one shocked he's better. He's better because he's more experienced and he's worked hard at his craft and he's had good coaching.

That brings up another point I failed to mention last night. I happen to notice, at the very end of the game Vinnie Sunseri going up to Matt Patricia and giving him a hug. Now Vinnie Sunseri is NOT going to make this team, even though he is an NFL quality safety and ST player. There are simply too many better players on this team. So I thought it was telling that a player who KNOWS he's going to be cut, would go up to his coach and thank him for the experience. THAT's why this team wins every year. They find a way to get their players better....and the players know it.

I noticed the Sunseri/Blackbeard exchange as well. I kinda want him to make the team now just for being a respectful, appreciative fellow of the opportunity.

I think it also speaks to how much players enjoy playing for Blackbeard. Its only a matter of time until he is a HC somewhere.

BTW- thank you RW for that term "stickier". It's perfect to describe why I like JJones to make this team over LeBlanc. He is "just stickier" Even though he isn't experienced enough to make the play sometime when the pass is perfect, he's there, and EVENTUALLY he'll get better, just as we saw Butler get better over the course of last season and into this one

Played hoop growing up and my AAU coach used the term to describe playing defense a certain style. Try to "stick" to him- dont shadow. Be physical. Hand check, etc.

I agree on the observation re: Jones being "stickier" than LeBlanc. I picked LeBlanc to make the team based on reading the tea leaves but I think JJones is the better DB and STer.

I'll send a note to Bill later with my thoughts.

 

[BelichickFan]

For those complaining about Fauria, while I'm sure it's legitimate just be thankful you didn't have to watch the Giants announcers on NFLN. Absolutely a brutal experience.

Of course the suspension is a travesty but at least we're getting this thing over. I'm actually really happy Brady is going to The Big House to be Honorary Captain, we all know how much he loves that place and I'm excited that he is making the best out of this stupid situation.

As for players :

Browns fans lauded Mingo's athleticism, effort and work habits but said he can't tackle and has no instincts. We'll see. That run stop was extra exciting, we knew he could run but he played off a guard nicely there. On the first sack you knew he would get the QB, almost no LB can run like that.

I love Foster, glad to see he has to have won a job. We'll almost certainly keep White, though, as that role is important and we can't trust Foster to stay healthy yet. I would be stunned if Bill lets this guy go.

Derby over Harbor has to be. Would they keep Harbor over the last WR if that WR is Dobson ? Probably not but it may not be out of the question.

Johnson over Kuhn, like above, has to be. Johnson is really interesting, remember when he was coming out of HS he was the #2 prospect behind Clowney. It's been a long, weird road but there is talent there.

Speaking of talent, it's been an exciting preseason with lots of young talent looking legit. Drafting where we do we need the freebies like Butler more than most and some of these young guys look like they can really help. Aside from a seemingly strong draft, Johnson, Foster, the young CB, Derby are intriguing.

As for Brissett I am actually happy to see PP2 being impressed because I remember he was not impressed at open practice. Good to see the same person seeing progress. For a rookie he obviously is very impressive, we'll see how he looks in three years as TB12's possible replacement. BTW, Ken, that will be the real Sad Day Edition, TB12's retirement.

 

[oldrover]

I love "Brisket's" game and his poise, and agree he is the heir apparent. I just hope Jimmy G plays well enough through the first four games so that BB doesn't have to call the kid off the bench. That would NOT increase Jimmy's value.

 

[BelichickFan]

I love "Brisket's" game and his poise, and agree he is the heir apparent. I just hope Jimmy G plays well enough through the first four games so that BB doesn't have to call the kid off the bench. That would NOT increase Jimmy's value.

At this point I don't care about JG's value. Sure I hope he can play well. But I have one goal for the first four week - be within one game of the AFC East lead. Give me that and we've won the division. I just don't want do be 3 or 4 back (very unlikely given our division, of course).

 

[RobertWeathers]

I love "Brisket's" game and his poise, and agree he is the heir apparent. I just hope Jimmy G plays well enough through the first four games so that BB doesn't have to call the kid off the bench. That would NOT increase Jimmy's value.

It really is amazing the number of people who believe that Brissett is better than Jimmy and I don't think we are wrong.

In fairness, Brissett has been playing vs 2nd and 3rd stringers. Jimmy vs 1st and 2nd stringers.

But...

I don't remember Jimmy playing THIS well vs 2nd and 3rd stringers in 2014 and last year.

He also seems calmer in the pocket. Doesnt get rattled. Seems more accurate than Jimmy. Quicker decision making.

We've seen dozens of QBs in this system over the last two decades. We know what to look for. We know what "good" is.

Can't put my finger on it but he just seems to have IT while Jimmy is just serviceable and functional.

Parcells might be right about this guy. Hes just might be special.

Once he knows the offense better we will know for sure but I don't think that'll be an issue.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Qbs like Bledsoe NEVER learned touch.
He had a decent career.
Brisket, unlike Drew is coachable. He'll learn.

I think Bledsoe was coachable.

The thing with him is football was never the end-all/be-all for him and the only time he changed his game was when his age made him. He isn't like Brady (and seriously who is?) in that he constantly worked his game to get better.

With that said, Bledsoe was great for us as Patriot fans and if he was a 3rd-5th year player, he'd be the 2nd best QB in the division by a far stretch (over 3rd).

 

[Vataha]

Great post.

Mingo is your 3rd starting LB by mid season if not sooner.
He will take Freeney's snaps.

It's a sad say of course, because of the travesty of justice perpetrated upon us all by the NYFL league office for their latest attempt to create parity in the league. It is also a sad day because we saw a number of very fine football players who WON'T be on the Patriots come Saturday evening. BB commented after the game on this, and I'm sure his feelings are shared by all his coaching brethren throughout the league. It must be tough to tell kids that for the moment their dreams have ended. Especially after watching them work so hard for the last 8 weeks doing everything you've asked of them. Unfortunately for us too many of them will likely wind up on OTHER team's rosters before Sunday comes around, but there WILL be room for 10 of them on the PS. Let's see how many come from OTHER team's rosters. As to the game.....

1. I've said enough about the perfidy of the media. Suffice it to say, I've had enough. Let me know what Chatham has to say , and give me a link when Reiss has written something and let the rest of them go F$ck themselves. I have no more interest in anything they have to say. When it's time for KO a week from Sunday, then I'll be at the bar watching the game, and not a moment before.

2. Could BMingo have had a more impactful introduction? Not if you scripted it. Multiple tackles, TWO forced fumbles, 1 tackle for a loss, 1 sack (taken away by a penalty) at least 3 QB hits, and a pass defensed.

Well that's the good news. The bad news, well it's not really that bad, but he ISN'T Jaime Collins (not that many people are). He's not nearly as strong or as physical at the point of attack. He is never going to be a DPOY candidate. He's done as a pass rusher if the OLman gets his hands on him. And if he doesn't have a head of steam off the LOS, he can get manhandled by those guys who are 100 lbs bigger than he is.

However that being said, IF USED PROPERLY, (and you know he will be here), he can be an explosive situational player, because he has the kind of speed that you just don't see from that position. Most importantly he looks like he is a willing player. The kind of guy who will buy in and work at it. In case he doesn't know it, he just died and went to heaven. (and I think he does. )

IMHO for the near future he'll be playing ST's and backing up Collins, while he learns the D. He'll also be used as a situational player. That being said, I think that by the time the playoffs roll around, he'll be an integral part of the Defensive rotation, even if he never "starts".

Thanks for the parting gift as you went out the door, Mike Lombardi.

3. Obviously DJ Foster was the other player who flashed tonight. The kid just looks so comfortable catching the ball. He made a great catch on the play he fumbled. Not quite the explosiveness of Lewis, but close enough to make the first guy miss most of the time. He didn't have much blocking in front of him, but he runs with much more authority than James White.

If he hadn't missed so much of camp, James White would already have his bags packed, but I'm not sure the Pats will cut him just based on less than 2 weeks of work. White is what the Pats love most. He's dependable. They know what he can and cannot do. He catches the ball well out of the backfield and is a willing blocker. He runs like ****. But he is what he is. While I think Foster is the more well rounded player, the Pats might not want to take the risk just based on just 2 weeks work.

That being said, I think it will be Foster who gets the Tom Brady 4 game scholarship, which will give the Foster 4 more games to prove his dependability. I can't seeing him making it to the PS. Not after tonight's performance.

4. The biggest question of the off season has been the OL and even though all the answers aren't in, I think we are on track to be pretty good. I thought the overall talent was as deep as I've seen it in a while here. The loss of Volmer hurts a lot, but Marcus Cannon has had his best pre season of his career, and I feel a lot better about him.

I was very concerned when Solder went to the sideline with an apparent hamstring. I'm a lot less concerned now. He never went to the locker room and later could be seen standing by the OL group while Dante was coaching. He didn't even have an ice bag on his leg. I'm pretty sure (hoping) that it was a cramp of the hamstring that they worked out. He probably would have returned if had been a real game.

The announcers sometime made it seem like Brady was under constant pressure, but to my mind it was the Giant's secondary that was the problem. Most of the time, Brady never got to go to his first read, and even then he was throwing into very tight windows. And those times when Brady was forced to step up in the pocket he had a clean one BECAUSE of the good blocking.

BTW- did Cooper play at all tonight? He's been gone so long, I forgot to look for him

5. MBennett has been an overall disappoint thus far. Perhaps it could be all the over hyped expectations going into the pre-season games. But the fact is that he never was much of a force, even when Gronk wasn't there. I love his personna, so I hope that he works out well here. He certainly has the pedigree to do well.

6. On the other hand I think Chris Hogan will be the guy we all hoped that Brandon LaFell would turn out to be. And it needs to be said that this was Dobson's best preseason game. 3 catches for 60+ yards. That is what he needs to be. He is never going to be a 10 catch guy like Edelman. But he NEEDS to be the guy who averages the 15+ yds per catch guy who can stretch the D a little, and open it up more underneath. Tonight he "did his job".

7. It can't be said strongly enough, but this defense is missing BOTH their top DE's and it's been close to unstoppable this pre-season. THAT is how good this defense is

8. Bubble Players I think you HAVE to have on this team
a. DJ Foster - as I have already explained
b. Anthony Johnson - He's flashed for 3 straight games now, at multiple positions. BB clearly likes the concept of the quick inside guy would can be moved all over. He hoped he had him in Easley, (and production wise, he did) now I think he gets a second chance with AJ. We have a bunch of big power guys in Brown, Branch, and Valentine. Johnson gives us a different and needed skill set that can help situationally.
c.JJones - Even though he was beaten for the TD, he was right there. To me it's a lot like early Butler, when he was missing making plays by inches. Plays he now makes because of experience. Its his raw speed that separates him from LeBlanc, who I know has his proponents. One is going to make the team, hopefully the other gets to the PS.
d. AJ Derby - Despite Christian Furia's impassioned plea, I think Derby should be the #3 guy. Sad, for Clay Harbor, he didn't do much to lose the job. Derby just took it from him when he was hurt. In an ideal world, you'd love to have Derby on PS, but I doubt he'd get there.
e. Gruier Hill - KGH is that hybrid S/LB that needs to be on a roster. I've been harping on the need to have a guy with a Brandon Browner skill set on our roster. In an age of ever increasing giants at WR, we will be entering the season with a roster of midget CBs. Well maybe that guy who plays the big TE's or can walk out on the big WR's will end up being someone like KGH in time. In the meantime the kid is looking like a kick ass ST player.

9. Elandon Roberts, won my heart, even though he probably lost his chance to make this squad. Clearly he was hurting in the 2nd half, but never left the field, even though it was affecting his play. I can understand he what he was thinking. If I were his dad, I would be very proud. I hope he makes the PS, he's a good football player.

10. Lastly I can't help but mention Jacoby Brissett. I have to say, I can't remember seeing a rookie QB come in and look so much in command of his offense. The kid has a great presence about him as well as a plethora of physical tools. That being said, I hope I don't see him on the field for the rest of the year. I now have great hope for him, though I don't envy him.

It took a long time coming, and many imposters before him, however Jacoby Brissett WILL be the guy who replaces Tom Brady sometime in the next 4 years....and though he'll never be the GOAT, I predict he will be as good a replacement as we could hope for.

11. It's 1am now. I think than rather than do it now, I'll submit a post in the next day or two on how I think the Pats are going to prepare for this game, and what strategies that they will use to spring an upset over the Cardinals. Good Night all.

 

[ChessToCheckers]

Now that Brady has 4 weeks of enforced time away from the Pats and the NFL* I hope he can find some ways to keep himself occupied to help pass the time

Hmmm ... what could he possibly do and with whom?

 

[long distance]

That brings up another point I failed to mention last night. I happen to notice, at the very end of the game Vinnie Sunseri going up to Matt Patricia and giving him a hug. Now Vinnie Sunseri is NOT going to make this team, even though he is an NFL quality safety and ST player. There are simply too many better players on this team. So I thought it was telling that a player who KNOWS he's going to be cut, would go up to his coach and thank him for the experience. THAT's why this team wins every year. They find a way to get their players better....and the players know it.

This is a beautiful paragraph. Helps to explain why Im here too much...
BB's sport culture has traits of great art - simplicity derived from hard work and respect.

 

[upstater1]

Great read. Thanks.

I am higher on James White than most not because I believe he will eventually be able to run through the tackles, but because I believe he has spectacular receiving skills from the RB position. Some of the catches he makes are incredibly acrobatic, like a top WR stuck in a (thin) RBs body.

I think Belichick is going to figure out how to do truly special things with this kid.

 

[willard]

I was impressed with the playing strength Mingo had as I wasn't expecting it seeing his frame. In the second half when the announcers were jammering about something there was a run up the middle and the defender lifted the runner and pile drove him into the ground near the los. The play was not replayed and so I wasn't sure who it was, but think it may have been Mingo. Can anyone confirm?

 

[long distance]

Great read. I would add Tom Curran, Jeff Howe and Chad Finn to your list of media people with integrity.

To me young Rich Hill is doing a great job @SB Nation/Pats Pulpit

 

[bbobbo]

Great post Ken. I was also impressed with Mingo. Both he and Long are playing like born-agains, with a second chance at football life. Two great pickups.

The one player I continue to be impressed with is Brissett. He has poise and is calm in the pocket. There was a snap earlier in the 3rd quarter where the pocket simply collapsed like a house of cards, but Brissett didn't panic, he fired a bullet to Harper or Carter who dropped the pass. Perhaps @bbobbo could create a GIF of this play? He never looked rushed or in a frenzy, but was progressing through his reads with a fluidity.

And now for the worst two days in the life of all NFL players who aren't superstars. Today and tomorrow are going to be such long days.

i remember that play. here it is:


there was another play late in the 3rd quarter where he gets flushed from the pocket, scrambles left, keeps his eyes downfield, and almost hits derby for the completion:


dare i say, he seems to handle pressure better than JAG?

 

[bbobbo]

I was impressed with the playing strength Mingo had as I wasn't expecting it seeing his frame. In the second half when the announcers were jammering about something there was a run up the middle and the defender lifted the runner and pile drove him into the ground near the los. The play was not replayed and so I wasn't sure who it was, but think it may have been Mingo. Can anyone confirm?

i think you're talking about this play. it was mingo:

 

[RobertWeathers]

To me young Rich Hill is doing a great job @SB Nation/Pats Pulpit

Rich is great. Put him on the sidelines, Chatham in the booth and Fauria back fetching donuts for fat Big O

 

[AzPatsFan]

Another great outing for Brisset. Mingo and Foster are just fun to watch. I hope Foster doesn't pay too high a price for the fumble. Butler is becoming otherworldly. Dare I say shut-down?

Yes, a sad day for most rookies, but on the bright side, some UDFA is going to have his dreams realized. Maybe more than one.

"Another great outing for Brisset." Oh yes no hits, no runs, plenty of errors . Having a shutout pitched at you is a spectacular non achievement.