Why we will continue AFC East Domination

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Galeb

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
No, the Patriots will continue AFC East dominantion, because they have one of the greatest Quarterbacks of all time in Tom Brady. Once Brady retires, or regresses to the point where he is no longer considered an elite QB, the Patriots domination of the divison will come to an end.
If the new Bill's ownership proves to be competent, maybe. Woody Johnson is a joke, and as long as he owns the Jets, they will suck. Miami is in a similar, if not quite so clowncarish boat.
 

Jetsfan25678

On the Game Day Roster
If the new Bill's ownership proves to be competent, maybe. Woody Johnson is a joke, and as long as he owns the Jets, they will suck. Miami is in a similar, if not quite so clowncarish boat.
No, ownership will have very little to do with this. It's about drafting a Franchise Quarterback, and unfortunately that is easier said than done. So as long as the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins (Tannehill may develop into one), don't have good to great Quarterback play under center, they will not be competing with New England, as long as you guys have number 12 suiting up.

You can win with a bad owner (see Irsay), but you need a very good Quarterback to do this.
 

Galeb

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
No, ownership will have very little to do with this. It's about drafting a Franchise Quarterback, and unfortunately that is easier said than done. So as long as the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins (Tannehill may develop into one), don't have good to great Quarterback play under center, they will not be competing with New England, as long as you guys have number 12 suiting up.

You can win with a bad owner (see Irsay), but you need a very good Quarterback to do this.
Pats improved immensely under the Krafts even before Tom Brady. Good ownership is required for a team to remain competitive over a long period of time. That is why the Pats sucked for decades before the Krafts bought the team. Of all people, Jets fans should understand this.
 

Jetsfan25678

On the Game Day Roster
Pats improved immensely under the Krafts even before Tom Brady. Good ownership is required for a team to remain competitive over a long period of time. That is why the Pats sucked for decades before the Krafts bought the team. Of all people, Jets fans should understand this.
We're going to agree to disagree, I've already shown you an example of my side of the argument.

If the Jets never win a SB, I'll be fine; The Rangers are going to win it all this year:)
 

Joker

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Jet fan talking about NFL success is like a gutter drunk talking about fine French vintage wines. He's drinking Ripple 46 years straight but he KNOWS about Chateau Lafite Rothschild 1982. In fact, this particular green cretin from W. Virginia most likely drinks moonshine/sterno 365 days a year.
 

Patsfanin Philly

Pro Bowl Player
Maybe I'm late to this thread but I don't share the doom and gloom. As BB says, there are three dimensions to football, offense, defense and special teams.
On special teams, we resigned Gost, have our punter and most of the core special teamers back. While we lost a few, we resigned other (Freeny) to fill the void.
On offense, the only loss is Vereen, primarily a third down pass catcher. Will White fill the void and make the second year jump?Cadet? Or is Gaffney recovered enough to contribute? Throw in Chandler at TE and the offense is on paper at least as good, if not better than last year.
(provided the third down back is in the mix)
On defense, it hurts to lose Vince, Revis and Browner and to a lesser extent Ayers and Casillas. But, Wilfork's cap number was too great and better a year too early than a year too late. Who knows, maybe there is another Ted Washington waiting to get cut by a team in the final cutdowns who steps in or the draft produces another replacement or Sheard proves to be a steal. Of course the secondary will take a hit but if you signed Revis to the numbers he wanted and got, you suffer elsewhere. We have won before with guys like Troy Brown and Earthwind Moreland playing DB, and we have lost before with substandard secondary play. Are Fletcher and Chekwa the answer?? Who knows but OTAs and the draft will give some idea as well as post-June 1 cuts... DE is solid and LBs (if recovered) are solid as is safety. We took some hits but as Super Bowl champs you always lose a few FAs whose value is high as times try to tap into the magic.....
 

mgteich

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Maybe I'm late to this thread but I don't share the doom and gloom. As BB says, there are three dimensions to football, offense, defense and special teams.
On special teams, we resigned Gost, have our punter and most of the core special teamers back. While we lost a few, we resigned other (Freeny) to fill the void.
On offense, the only loss is Vereen, primarily a third down pass catcher. Will White fill the void and make the second year jump?Cadet? Or is Gaffney recovered enough to contribute? Throw in Chandler at TE and the offense is on paper at least as good, if not better than last year.
(provided the third down back is in the mix)
On defense, it hurts to lose Vince, Revis and Browner and to a lesser extent Ayers and Casillas. But, Wilfork's cap number was too great and better a year too early than a year too late. Who knows, maybe there is another Ted Washington waiting to get cut by a team in the final cutdowns who steps in or the draft produces another replacement or Sheard proves to be a steal. Of course the secondary will take a hit but if you signed Revis to the numbers he wanted and got, you suffer elsewhere. We have won before with guys like Troy Brown and Earthwind Moreland playing DB, and we have lost before with substandard secondary play. Are Fletcher and Chekwa the answer?? Who knows but OTAs and the draft will give some idea as well as post-June 1 cuts... DE is solid and LBs (if recovered) are solid as is safety. We took some hits but as Super Bowl champs you always lose a few FAs whose value is high as times try to tap into the magic.....
1) So, most of are OK with the offense and special teams. We need to find a LG, but that's doable.
2) No one is worried about Ayers and Casillas, given that we added Sheard. We do have concerns with the health of our linebackers.
3) I don't understand your optimism with regard to replacing Revis, Browner and Wilfork. I'm definitely NOT disagreeing with the decisions that led to losing them. Basically, we lost three high level players, and your answer is for Belichick to tap into his magic.
 

dhamz

In the Starting Line-Up
I honestly don't understand what everyone sees in Rex Ryan. His track record so far has been to take a pretty promising Jets team and go backwards from there. He spent some time as the DC for Baltimore but they were only good for a year and lost after a couple of playoff wins. The only other time they were good with him as DC the Ravens went one and done in the playoffs.

He has turned into exactly what they said he was when he was denied the HC job in Baltimore. He's a loose cannon. What he does have for himself is a following.
Rex has got a media fan club second only to Jeff "The Mustache" Fisher and they shape his perception. Most of what they say about him doesn't stand up to scrutiny but scrutiny is reserved for those who don't give great quotes.
 

Patsfanin Philly

Pro Bowl Player
3) I don't understand your optimism with regard to replacing Revis, Browner and Wilfork. I'm definitely NOT disagreeing with the decisions that led to losing them. Basically, we lost three high level players, and your answer is for Belichick to tap into his magic.
Oh, I'm not blindly optimistic by any means but I'm not as pessimistic as some. It will force major changes in the style of defense played and obviously will be a step down but if 15 years of BB have taught us anything, it is that he will find some way to put a credible defense out there. My point was simply that you always lose some parts in an off season and more so when you win the SB. Looking at all three parts, only one, the defense took a major hit and needs to be 'fixed'.
 
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RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
Anyone else feel that Malcolm butler could take a 2nd year leap? According to mike reiss some in the pats organization feel there is potential for him to be a lockdown corner.

If Dennard can revert back to his cb2 status again, butler, dennard, ryan, fletcher, arrington, draftee. While not revis could still be decent.
 

PatsFanInVa

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Here's what we know:

- 1/4 billion with a b in guaranteed money spent by opponents this off-season (over X years, with X varying by contract) to try to beat the Pats during the Brady sunset (unless there's something they know about that date that we don't know)

- Jimmy G = a mainly unknown quantity (but he does look good from what we have seen)

- Pats clearly taking the business-as-usual, nothing breaks the cap attitude

- Brady is "cheap" (for the value he brings) through the current contract ($14m, $15m, $16m through 2017); Cf Worthlessberger, at $17.2m, $23.95m, $18.2m... then $23.2m, $23.2m in the next 2 years. I used a guy outside the division to compare like to like. I think through '17, it's not crazy to think of Brady as bringing equal or better value than Worthlessberger :)

Now granted, Geno Smith is cheaper :)... of course the JEST also have to pay at least one journeyman (Hoyer, Fitzpatrick) and quite likely put a downpayment down on Winston or Mariota... so yes, compared to these teams we are spending more at QB, but not as much more as one may think - and are easily getting more than commensurate value for the spend.

Now the JEST can take the same line on value-per-dollar as regards Revis. Through '17, they actually pay more (cap $) for him than Pats pay for Brady... then it drops in the out years. But yes, as we just saw in his NE proving grounds, he still takes away the best enemy receiver (or half the field, whichever way you want to phrase it.)

What the Pats are doing is what the Pats do very well... not losing their **** like a bunch of enamored schoolboys, even at the cost of looking like they're "losing their edge." Or, viewed from a non-fanboy viewpoint, they're acting like a team that's closer to the cap than they'd like to be, and taking the inevitable losses in terms of personnel.

I don't like going in with the secondary as it is at this moment... but we drew the value line, and have to wish a (for now) fond farewell to the dearly departed. Being a Pats fan is like watching the Walking Dead. You know you'll lose beloved characters... but you know that the core of the group will survive in whatever form. I think Rick survives tonight's season finale... but you never know...

That's how you hold court over a whole division for a decade plus (and how the hell we lost it in that anomalous 11-5, Bradyless year is beyond me).

So it's good to have some less laughable competition in the division. We might end up just beating the rest of the division, rather than kicking the crap out of them.

But I don't see the swing in the breathless terms the sports media do... and our competition has just dropped a quarter billion out of the next few years' caps.

We'll see what moves the Pats make between now and September... but I feel okay about the value approach at the moment.
 

PatsFanInVa

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Anyone else feel that Malcolm butler could take a 2nd year leap? According to mike reiss some in the pats organization feel there is potential for him to be a lockdown corner.

If Dennard can revert back to his cb2 status again, butler, dennard, ryan, fletcher, arrington, draftee. While not revis could still be decent.
Yes, I feel this but I know my emotions are involved... in terms of Butler/Dennard we have to remember the difference between hope and proven ability. I'd love them to be a formidable tandem, but they never have before (and neither have really been world-beaters of any kind before).

We should face that the 2014 secondary is gone. If the 2015 secondary outperforms reasonable expectations, that's outstanding. What a concept, right? We get for cheap what somebody else pays tens of millions more for. The only trouble is that they're paying that money to know that they've got the personnel to do the job. We saved the money, and have no choice but to hope. Such is life. You can't have everything... where would you put it?

When you've got an elite talent like Revis, you don't pick up the replacement from the 6/1 cuts list, and probably don't get one in the draft (although I could see an imposing warrior safety w/coverage skills like Browner being a target).

Likely 2015 secondary becomes a liability we'll hopefully mask somewhat with a little more production in the pressure department.

Already looking forward to how it all comes together this season. (And yes, I will be rooting for Malcolm Butler to be the name on everybody's lips as the NFL's newest and greatest lockdown corner.)
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
Yeah but butler/dennard have shown ability. Not saying they are revis and browner. But they have shown to be nfl caliber corners. Thats why this "we are returning to 2011!" Narrative is rediculous. That year had edelman and slater playing corner.

All this handwringing about losing Revis but vs that we have also lost lawyer milloy, rodney, ty law, branch, wilfork, mankins moss welker etc...yet somehow we keep winning and belicheck finds players to step in and perform.

Ill take that track record vs. A few loser teams making big splashy signings. rarely does the team who wins march win the superbowl.
 
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