why so quiet on the OL?

[Ring 6]

For all intents and purposes Tre Jackson was released last summer as he spent the entire season on PUP/IR.. So people can't sit here and honestly say releasing Tre Jackson thinned them at OL as they just went a whole season and won the SB without him.

The depth was never needed but the depth was paper thin. Jackson was considered an addition to help solve the severe lack of depth that we survived last year.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Our depth isn't too bad. I would like to upgrade Waddle, who was a scratch all year, but i'm okay with the rest. Hell, Chris Barker isn't that bad and has been with our team in some form for years and wouldn't be surprised if one of these years actually earns playing time.

 

[aluminum seats]

If he had something left in the tank, would love to grab Nick Mangold for a season.

Good player, with the added bonus of torturing Jets fans a bit more than they're tortured already.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If he had something left in the tank, would love to grab Nick Mangold for a season.

For a season? I would say 2 seasons. Did anyone watch the Texans destroy the IOL during our playoff game? Do we forget Wendell at Center getting schooled in our playoff loss to Denver? Any team in the league has a drop off if the left or right tackle goes down, but we have a couple of backups at tackle. We lost Stork and Jackson, so that was our IOL depth - we need more IOL depth.

It is a luxury to be debating OL depth, but it is an issue IMHO. Saying Scar will just plug the holes is not addressing the situation head-on.

 

[pdangle]

...Cannon is already re-signed and the rest are all still on their rookie deals...

And yes, you gotta love the cap impact of having 3 capable IOL on those sweet sweet rookie deals. Probably 15M+ in savings right there.

 

[patfanken]

Interesting topic:

1. I am all for grabbing Mangold if he is healthy. I love the Andrews story, and I think he's a pretty good center, but he is limited and that's a fact. A healthy Mangold would simply be a better player, who we can afford.

2. I'm sure they are looking to upgrade the C Position, but anyone they get in the draft would be unproven. I THINK that Karras is the back up C and he has zero experience as well has being a huge questionmark at G.

3. Bringing in Mangold will not only upgrade the C position, it will make the the interior OL depth much better as well.

4. it used to be that the best OL prospects were among the safest picks in the draft. Recently, not so much. I I wonder if part of the problem comes from the offenses that colleges are playing. Often you might get a kid who spent 3 or 4 years in college and never got into a 3 point stance. I think, like QB's, college offensive linemen are coming into the league LESS prepared to play in the NFL than they used to. It's one of the reasons it seems that merely competent FA's got paid so much this off season. Thus the quality of your OL coaching becomes critically important.

 

[Ring 6]

Our depth isn't too bad. I would like to upgrade Waddle, who was a scratch all year, but i'm okay with the rest. Hell, Chris Barker isn't that bad and has been with our team in some form for years and wouldn't be surprised if one of these years actually earns playing time.

Honestly we have no C and G depth at all. It really couldn't be worse. As of now.

 

[fnordcircle]

Somewhere, right now, Belichick is trying to remember that one other thing he meant to work on during the offseason.

 

[maineman209]

Come on, that post doesn't deserve a red X.

The Pats got very lucky on the OL last year with minimal injuries. The depth on the IOL is non-existent. Any of those three go down early and they're scrambling.

Again, the Pats have ...
Chris Barker - 3 years on the PS/Scout team
Jamil Douglas - 2 years
Chase Ferris - spent his rookie season on the PS
Ted Karras - spent his rookie season on the 53-man roster

All of them are interior OL, and Fleming can probably cover OG reasonably (he's did in 2014 a couple times).

Typically, the Pats also train most of their Guards at Center, at least a little.

Anyway, only Scar really knows how these guys have developed in practice. One of two may be gems.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 OL come in with the rest of the UDFA. There may also be one or two for whom a draft pick is spent. That happens pretty much every draft, anyway.

 

[captain stone]

Except for the potential of Jamil Douglas, our OL depth across the board is
NON-existent. Barker, Farris, Fleming, Karras & Waddle are not even NFL
backup quality. They are merely tackling dummies for TC quality.

I'm still not sure how many people fully understand just how very, VERY lucky
we were that not one of our starters suffered a multiple-game injury. If that had happened, then it's the 2015 AFCC all over again.

Bill's playing with fire here, and I'm hoping that we don't get burned (again.)

 

[mgteich]

Except for the potential of Jamil Douglas, our OL depth across the board is
NON-existent. Barker, Farris, Fleming, Karras & Waddle are not even NFL
backup quality. They are merely tackling dummies for TC quality.

I'm still not sure how many people fully understand just how very, VERY lucky
we were that not one of our starters suffered a multiple-game injury. If that had happened, then it's the 2015 AFCC all over again.

Bill's playing with fire here, and I'm hoping that we don't get burned (again.)

Fleming is an adequate backup OT. Waddle was injured and has shown nothing so far.

One of our top two needs is to bring in 2-4 interior offensive linemen. I also expect us to draft an OT, or extend Solder.

 

[mgteich]

Honestly we have no C and G depth at all. It really couldn't be worse. As of now.

We will likely have 2-3 additions by next week.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Honestly we have no C and G depth at all. It really couldn't be worse. As of now.

Andy must be sneaking around my wife because every freakin day she asks me, "Have we done anything to protect Brady yet?"

Or maybe he's hanging with Gisele!

 

[Ring 6]

We will likely have 2-3 additions by next week.

That's my hope. Including one being a veteran.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy must be sneaking around my wife because every freakin day she asks me, "Have we done anything to protect Brady yet?"

Or maybe he's hanging with Gisele!

I like our OL, the starting unit that is but we have one backup to the entire IOL and is highly questionable whether he would poop his pants if he had to play.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wish we'd get the inside information on the 2014/2015 OL drafts and who was in charge of the OL philosophy. There are enough whispers that Guge didn't really have a lot of say despite being the OL coach. Everybody has seen the pics of Scar working out prospects as well.

Really think the entire OL transition might have been one of the biggest blunders of BB in his time as Pats coach/GM. Especially looking how Mason is the only player left standing from those drafts.

Well, first off, there were a total of 5 OL picks in those two drafts.
2014 - Stork, Fleming, Halapio
2015 - Mason, Jackson

No one could have predicted that Stork would suffer as many concussions as he did. I think that is as much an issue with the equipment he was using as anything else..

Halapio was a bust from day 1. Jackson was a 4th round pick.

The Pats still have Fleming and Mason. Mason is a starter and Fleming sees plenty of snaps as a 3rd TE/3 OT on the goal line. He's also had a couple of spot starts where he wasn't a turnstile out there.

So, it's not as bad as you'd make it out to be. Especially considering the success rate of picks beyond the 2nd round.

 

[DaBruinz]

Barker has been at least a competent PS/scout team guy for three seasons, although I think that he's now used up his PS eligibility. So, it's probably make-or-break for him in 2017.

They kept Karras on the 53-man all last season (which maybe says something about his future potential - and maybe it doesn't), and they have Chase Ferris and Jamil Douglas left over from the 2016 PS.

Although it's not often that a guy "graduates" from the PS to a full-time role on the 53-man (the PS is really more a scout team than it is a developmental stash), Wendell, Neal and a couple other OL have made the leap in the past, so it's possible that the IOL situation is already well-covered in the opinion of Scar and the coaching staff.

Dante has a long track record of taking OL from the PS and getting the most out of them. You mention Wendell and Neal, but you forgot Ashworth and Gorin. Both of whom stepped in BIG in 2003 and 2004 respectively.

EDIT: And that doesn't cover Connolly and Hochstein either.. (thanks for the reminder)

 

[Brick27]

Have very little faith that the OL will be as incredibly lucky in terms of health as they were this past year.

Starters are fine (though I feel Andrews and Mason could be upgraded), but guys like Karras filling in for extended time is a huge question mark.

Very confident there will be some more names thrown in the mix by the time camp rolls around though.

 

[DaBruinz]

With Tre Jackson's release, the Pats certainly need to do something on the OL. They're very thin, except at tackle - I haven't heard that either Waddle or Fleming can kick inside.

Fleming has actually spent time inside during his rookie year. In fact, many people felt he played better there than he did at RT. People forget that Fleming actually stepped in at LT and held his own for a game. Granted, it was only ONE game, but he did it without the benefit of Scar.

Between Fleming and Waddle, the Pats have a couple of OTs they are comfortable going into the season with. They also know that Fleming could be pressed in at G if needed.

Yes. I too expect an interior lineman with the release of Jackson. We do know that Karras played well enough to be kept on the Pro Roster, but he's hardly a lock. And the Pats did go with only 9 OL last year on the pro roster.

 

[DaBruinz]

For all intents and purposes Tre Jackson was released last summer as he spent the entire season on PUP/IR.. So people can't sit here and honestly say releasing Tre Jackson thinned them at OL as they just went a whole season and won the SB without him.

Gotta love hindsight.
People still had hopes that Jackson would return during the year. And it's not like he was garbage. He actually played pretty well. The knee injury from 2015 is what did him in. He never recovered and it only got worse..

So, acting like you knew way back at the start of the 2016 season that Jackson wasn't going to be counted on is just laughable.

Cutting Jackson DOES thin them at OL because, until they cut him, he had the potential to make the roster. If you want to pretend otherwise, so be it.