why so quiet on the OL?

[RayClay]

Barker has been at least a competent PS/scout team guy for three seasons, although I think that he's now used up his PS eligibility. So, it's probably make-or-break for him in 2017.

They kept Karras on the 53-man all last season (which maybe says something about his future potential - and maybe it doesn't), and they have Chase Ferris and Jamil Douglas left over from the 2016 PS.

Although it's not often that a guy "graduates" from the PS to a full-time role on the 53-man (the PS is really more a scout team than it is a developmental stash), Wendell, Neal and a couple other OL have made the leap in the past, so it's possible that the IOL situation is already well-covered in the opinion of Scar and the coaching staff.

Dan Connolly Russ Hochstein

 

[Boston Boxer]

The strategy is to let Scar do his thing. It worked pretty well overall last year.

Also don't blame the OL for every pressure or sack. Many of them are also caused by our WRs not getting open in the expected time. So the acquisition of Cooks by itself will hopefully already alleviate some of the pressure on the OL.

hopefully they have someone learning from Scar...that dude wont live forever and you saw what happened when he retired last time.

 

[maineman209]

hopefully they have someone learning from Scar...that dude wont live forever and you saw what happened when he retired last time.

Among other things, while Scar was retired, the Pats had their two worst rushing seasons in the past decade or more.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I think we forget about Fleming and Karras giving Jimmy G enough time vs. Campbell, C. Jones, Golden as well as Suh the following week.

I agree depth is an issue but those two showed they could play last season.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

At the end of the day, we are one injury to solder away from disaster. There are no acceptable backups available in this draft or free agents available. At this point we would need to trade for one to get one in the roster.

I believe fleming is an acceptable back up for cannon, so we are good there.

At the guard spot, mason is a monster run blocker, but terrible as a pass protector. He improved a bit under scar last season. In my mind this is the season he has to take a leap or he needs to be replaced.

Andrews is clearly the weak link in the line. Thuney should be the starting center and a guy like freeney from Indiana should be the starting left guard.

Andrews and karras are acceptable backups on the interior.

 

[maineman209]

At the end of the day, we are one injury to solder away from disaster. There are no acceptable backups available in this draft or free agents available. At this point we would need to trade for one to get one in the roster.

I believe fleming is an acceptable back up for cannon, so we are good there.

At the guard spot, mason is a monster run blocker, but terrible as a pass protector. He improved a bit under scar last season. In my mind this is the season he has to take a leap or he needs to be replaced.

Andrews is clearly the weak link in the line. Thuney should be the starting center and a guy like freeney from Indiana should be the starting left guard.

Andrews and karras are acceptable backups on the interior.

I don't know how far Karras (or Ferris) may, or may not, have developed under Scar over the past season. I don't know how much better Waddle may be now after a full season being coached by Scar. Scar sees these guys, what, 60-80 hours a week during the season?

I'm not saying that it's a certainty that Scar will have made silk purses out of these sow's ears by Week-1, just that he has a lot more information about them than I do. We may, or may not, have a better idea of what Scar thinks about the current IOL roster after the Draft.

So, it's entirely possible that there's a redeployment/upgrade to the IOL to be made for 2017 using just the guys already on the roster and that they could be fine now with Fleming or Waddle if Solder went down. We'll certainly have a much better idea by the end of Camp.

OTOH, Scar had a personal workout with Davenport and the Pats had Antonio Garcia in for an official visit, so maybe they're looking. Or maybe one of those guys will be drafted simply as insurance against Solder walking in 2018.

Scar also had private workouts with a couple of (likely UDFA) Centers. I really don't know how much to read into that.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

With all the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments by those concerned that trading JAG will leave us thin at QB, fact is we ARE thin at OL. With 5 players, odds are that at least one and likely more will miss several games this year. I agree with Ken, no not about Madam Secretary as a great show but that we should sign Mangold the former Jet at center. Then draft or find porkers for OL school in FA. Maybe get lucky and pick up a vet off the discard heap this summer from teams rich in young OL draftees needing room on their 53.

 

[maineman209]

With all the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments by those concerned that trading JAG will leave us thin at QB, fact is we ARE thin at OL. With 5 players, odds are that at least one and likely more will miss several games this year. I agree with Ken, no not about Madam Secretary as a great show but that we should sign Mangold the former Jet at center. Then draft or find porkers for OL school in FA. Maybe get lucky and pick up a vet off the discard heap this summer from teams rich in young OL draftees needing room on their 53.

My guess is that the Pats sign a few UDFA OL and maybe draft a guy at OT, then sort through them all over the summer and sign Mangold just before Camp.

Pretty much the same thing possible with RBs if the Bills match on Gillislee - the Pats re-sign Blount just before Camp.

 

[BobDigital]

I think we forget about Fleming and Karras giving Jimmy G enough time vs. Campbell, C. Jones, Golden as well as Suh the following week.

I agree depth is an issue but those two showed they could play last season.

Was about to bring up that very point. Yes it was just 1-2 games for each but they showed something and I am not looking to move on from either.

OL is kind of in an odd spot. Cannon hopefully continues to be a beast. Solder and Mason can be a bit inconsistent but also are not that unlikely to be your best OL man on any particular day. Thuney is the young kid with a lot of promise.

That is 4 of 5 spots IMO it is hard to justify investing a lot of capital into upgrading. Andrews can be of course and maybe should be.

As for backups I certainly would want to give Karras and Flemming another look this year after promising flashes last year. You need an 8th and maybe 9th but ideally no one outside those top 7 ever sees the field with Brady as your QB.

 

[DaBruinz]

Was about to bring up that very point. Yes it was just 1-2 games for each but they showed something and I am not looking to move on from either.

OL is kind of in an odd spot. Cannon hopefully continues to be a beast. Solder and Mason can be a bit inconsistent but also are not that unlikely to be your best OL man on any particular day. Thuney is the young kid with a lot of promise.

That is 4 of 5 spots IMO it is hard to justify investing a lot of capital into upgrading. Andrews can be of course and maybe should be.

As for backups I certainly would want to give Karras and Flemming another look this year after promising flashes last year. You need an 8th and maybe 9th but ideally no one outside those top 7 ever sees the field with Brady as your QB.

Pat Elflein is the reigning Rimington Award Winner as the best center in the country. The last Rimington Award winner the Pats had was Stork.. The one site I looked at questioned whether Elflein would be good in the pulling game.. Something that is a must for the Patriots OL. I didn't watch Elfein in college, so I don't know if he has what is needed for the line calls.

Elflein is predicted to go in the 2nd round. Which could mean he's out of reach unless the Pats trade Garoppolo or Butler and add a 2nd rounder.

Tyler Orlosky from WV might be a better fit, but he's essentially the same size as David Andrews and wouldn't necessarily be an upgrade.

Dorian Johnson and Danny Isadora are likely targets if they are still on the board.
Cameron Tom is a likely target beyond the 4th round.

 

[stinkypete]

Come on, that post doesn't deserve a red X.

The Pats got very lucky on the OL last year with minimal injuries. The depth on the IOL is non-existent. Any of those three go down early and they're scrambling.

The OL depth is a big issue because the health of the unit was impeccable in 2016. Only Cameron Fleming (25%) and Ted Karras (9.6%) even participated in 1% of offensive snaps in 2016.

I anticipate one of our 3rd round picks will be spent on the line.

 

[captain stone]

At the end of the day, we are one injury to Solder away from disaster. There are no acceptable backups available in this draft or free agents available. At this point we would need to trade for one to get one in the roster.

I believe Fleming is an acceptable back up for Cannon, so we are good there.

At the Guard spot, Mason is a monster run blocker, but terrible as a pass protector. He improved a bit under Scar last season. In my mind this is the season he has to take a leap or he needs to be replaced.

Andrews is clearly the weak link in the line. Thuney should be the starting Center and a guy like Feeney from Indiana should be the starting Left Guard.

Andrews and Karras are acceptable backups on the interior.

Instead of moving Thuney to Center, I would move Mason to Center, so that his weakness in pass protection would be better-mitigated than it would be at RG.
And besides, dependable RGs are generally easier to find than dependable LGs,
so I wouldn't mess with Thuney right now.

 

[conway]

Andrews an acceptable backup? I bel

At the end of the day, we are one injury to solder away from disaster. There are no acceptable backups available in this draft or free agents available. At this point we would need to trade for one to get one in the roster.

I believe fleming is an acceptable back up for cannon, so we are good there.

At the guard spot, mason is a monster run blocker, but terrible as a pass protector. He improved a bit under scar last season. In my mind this is the season he has to take a leap or he needs to be replaced.

Andrews is clearly the weak link in the line. Thuney should be the starting center and a guy like freeney from Indiana shoe the starting left guard.

Andrews and karras are acceptable backups on the interior.

ieve the Pats record when andrews

At the end of the day, we are one injury to solder away from disaster. There are no acceptable backups available in this draft or free agents available. At this point we would need to trade for one to get one in the roster.

I believe fleming is an acceptable back up for cannon, so we are good there.

At the guard spot, mason is a monster run blocker, but terrible as a pass protector. He improved a bit under scar last season. In my mind this is the season he has to take a leap or he needs to be replaced.

Andrews is clearly the weak link in the line. Thuney should be the starting center and a guy like freeney from Indiana should be the starting left guard.

Andrews and karras are acceptable backups on the interior.

Andrews a weak link and an acceptable backup? I realize he's not dominant, but the Pats are, I believe, 30-2 in games Andrews starts, and one of those losses was with a 3d string rookie starting at QB. I'm not saying he's solely responaible for those wins, but he can't be hurting them too bad.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[SlowGettingUp]

If he had something left in the tank, would love to grab Nick Mangold for a season.

If not Nick, then maybe his sister is available:

Olympic Weightlifter Holley Mangold Mocks NFL Players' Box-Jump Fad

 

[captain stone]

I would love to have Mangold here, but he still might be holding out for an opportunity to start, and I don't know if Bill will give that to him, and the money that goes with it. That's why signing someone like Fusco might be a more reasonable expectation.

 

[AzPatsFan]

This isi a very young line that has not yet reached its prime, except at tackle perhaps. The interior is even younger, and the reserves Fletcher and Karras are still very junior and I think.as does the Patriot brain trust, all will get better. Even relative veteran "oldtimer " Solder, who is really only entering his prime,now.

 

[BTTA]

This isi a very young line that has not yet reached its prime, except at tackle perhaps. The interior is even younger, and the reserves Fletcher and Karras are still very junior and I think.as does the Patriot brain trust, all will get better. Even relative veteran "oldtimer " Solder, who is really only entering his prime,now.

That's an optimistic view, and appreciated.
There's no doubt that the starting 5 is solid (despite and the Andrews criticism here); it is about depth. A wonderful problem to have. But we've seen seasons that would otherwise have been SB wins go down the tubes to OL injury.

 

[maineman209]

This isi a very young line that has not yet reached its prime, except at tackle perhaps. The interior is even younger, and the reserves Fletcher and Karras are still very junior and I think.as does the Patriot brain trust, all will get better. Even relative veteran "oldtimer " Solder, who is really only entering his prime,now.

Fletcher? I assume you mean Fleming?

In any case, the interior OL at least has a lot of bodies on the roster who are signed for a couple years. Between the free agents like Mangold and Fusco who are still floating around, and draft prospects, more bodies (competition for the existing bodies) for 2017 and the future can be quickly acquired

OTOH, at OT, the Pats have ...
Cannon
Solder
Fleming
Waddle

The last three on that list are UFA at the end of 2017.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I would argue the depth is better than thought, merely because it has had only very limited exposure so far. But in those very limited circumstances, the depth, especially Fleming and Karras have not embarrassed themselves or the team...

Fleming has had only a single start at both Left and Right tackle, and occasional snaps as the "sixth" lineman. And Karras has maybe two starts at LG. Games they played were victories.