Who would be your preferred top 5 receivers to make the team (from the current roster).

[Clonamery]

Patterson greatest skill (returns) is a getting less and less valued with each rule change.

For this year's rule change, he is more valuable. No wedgies! etc.

 

[jah]

Granted I haven't caught all of the practices, but the ones I have caught Berrios has looked good. Sure, he's small, but he seems to have great hands, and his scrappiness and build remind me of a Danny Woodhead-type guy.....or a young Julian Edelman.

A real gym rat. First guy in, last guy out. Plays a real cerebral game.

 

[maineman209]

In general I do share the same line of thinking, but I would hate to see a repeat of 2013. Sure, they ended up going to the AFC Championship Game, but I'd never seen the Patriots offense struggle as much as they did (in the early going of the season).

The second quarter of the season was one of Brady's worst stretches of his career.

The offense's struggle was even worse, in many respects, for the first four games of 2014 - "Brady is DONE!!" and all that happy horsepuckey. Then it was, "We're on to Cincinnati" .... and another ring.

 

[Bruins29]

biased expectations based on a guy's historical draft position.

The natural reaction is to think that because Patterson was a first rounder, he must have good natural talent

What is going on with this forum? I keep seeing stuff like this. Patterson has been a solid 3 WR and an excellent 4 WR the last 2 years with 2 different teams and Bradford and Carr throwing him the ball. He is what he is and maybe could be better. Was he worth a 1st rounder...maybe but its not like he is useless.

His first two years in the NFL were at least solid. Regardless of where he was drafted he can be a solid contributor and has proven himself at the NFL level of being more than serviceable in addition to his return skills.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Edelman
Hogan
Decker
Dorsett
Patterson
Slater

PS if possible McCarron, Berrios
weeks 1-4: Britt

 

[Oswlek]

In general I do share the same line of thinking, but I would hate to see a repeat of 2013. Sure, they ended up going to the AFC Championship Game, but I'd never seen the Patriots offense struggle as much as they did (in the early going of the season).

The second quarter of the season was one of Brady's worst stretches of his career.

This comparison gets bandied about, but it isn't apt, IMO. The biggest problem is that it restricts "receivers" to "wide receivers". Gronk missing the first and last months and the team being blindsided by Hernandez contributed at least as much to the offensive woes as the lack of WR talent. Imagine what circumstances would have to conspire for NE to be trotting out this year's equivalent of Hooman and Matt Mulligan come playoff time.

The gap isn't quite so large at RB, but I'd still take White/Burkhead as receiving backs over Woodhead and Vereen, particularly since Shane hadn't fully developed by that point. And this doesn't include the potential of Michel.

Already the comparison is clearly flawed, but I'd contend that it would be so even if we accept the limited original terms. Here are the receivers that opened 2013:

Edelman, Amendola, Thompkins, Boyce, Dobson

Three rookies, none of which who ended up panning out, Edelman before he was JE11 and Amendola. For the purposes of this discussion, I'll assume Dola didn't get hurt since injuries may happen this year as well.

By comparison, here are the options this year.

Edelman, Hogan, Dorsett, Patterson, Decker, Britt, Berrios, McCarron

Yes, Edelman will be suspended, but for these purposes we'll call that a wash. I think 2013 Amendola has a clear edge on Hogan, but Chis is still a viable receiver who looked to be developing nicely last year before injuring his shoulder. The rest is no comparison. Patterson is viewed as a bust, but he's light years beyond Dobson. Same for Dorsett and Boyce. And Decker/Britt bring at least some level of experience and/or competence to the position. The cliff edge isn't nearly as dramatic, which is important for a team that thrives on mismatches.

All told, if somehow NE loses Gronk and Hollister during the preseason, none of the vets pan out at WR forcing Berrios and McCarron into key roles and Michel's injury lingers all year, leading to an eventual placement on IR, then comparisons to 2013 will be valid. Prior to that, not so much.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that this is possible.

HOWEVER, I disagree with regard to the best time to slip someone onto the Practice Squad.

OPTION 1
when about 1000 players are being made available

OPTION 2
when a dozen or so from the week are being made available, and some teams have had injuries at WR or PR (or found out that the players they were counting on aren't working out)

I think that it is more likely that we slip a player through before the season starts.

Still a possibility that one of Berrios or McCarron sticks for the duration of Edelman's suspension. Might be slightly better chances of sneaking the guy through waivers and onto the PSquad after week-4 than during final cuts.

 

[maineman209]

Granted I haven't caught all of the practices, but the ones I have caught Berrios has looked good. Sure, he's small, but he seems to have great hands, and his scrappiness and build remind me of a Danny Woodhead-type guy.....or a young Julian Edelman.

Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I feel like Patterson has trouble creating separation and isn't the force in the passing game that he's hyped up to be. I'm guilty as well, but I think a lot of times we have biased expectations based on a guy's historical draft position.

The natural reaction is to think that because Patterson was a first rounder, he must have good natural talent and the Patriots are the team that will fix any career shortcomings he's had to this point. I'm guilty as well, I thought the same about Jonathan Cooper and Kony Ealy. Patterson greatest skill (returns) is a getting less and less valued with each rule change.

I'm not sure who all are hyping Patterson as a "force in the passing game", and I'm not even really sure what that means. He could be very useful, in his own way, which is what matters most.

Anyway, creating separation downfield isn't, and never really has been, Patterson's game. Patterson's game has been mostly catching very short passes and then turning on the jets and/or bullying defenders out of his way to get YAC.

I really don't think that many people on this board are taking Patterson's original draft slot into consideration at all - except perhaps for this delicious irony:

Minny took Patterson at #29 in the 2013 draft by trading away their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 7th-round selections ... to the Patriots. The Patriots, in turn, used those selections to acquire Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan and (via trade) LeGarrette Blount. AND, the Pats have now acquired Patterson himself (plus a 6th-rounder) for a mere 5th-round pick.

 

[mgteich]

Folks are pushing for a 4 week PR until Edelman becomes our #1 PR. Surely, either McCarran and Berrios are needed for anything else.

Personally, I don't think that this will happen. If one of these can beat out Britt as a receiver, then he can stay. Also, if a 4 week PR is needed, I suspect that one of the cuts from other teams would likely be better than either of them for 4 weeks.

Finally, IMHO, the best time to slip someone onto the Practice Squad is when every team is cutting 25-35 players.

 

[maineman209]

I agree that this is possible.

HOWEVER, I disagree with regard to the best time to slip someone onto the Practice Squad.

OPTION 1
when about 1000 players are being made available

OPTION 2
when a dozen or so from the week are being made available, and some teams have had injuries at WR or PR (or found out that the players they were counting on aren't working out)

I think that it is more likely that we slip a player through before the season starts.

I'm not sure how "slightly better chance" turns into "the best time", but here's my take:

During final cuts, the entire personnel departments of all 31 other teams are still laser-focused on building roster depth and Psquads. All 31 teams will have prepared "short lists", or something like mini-draft-boards. They'll be watching the waiver wire like hawks, waiting for someone they're interested in to become available so they can submit a claim. It's not as if they're going to be overwhelmed by the sudden volume of players available. They know it's coming.

After week-4, there might be 2-3 teams who are so desperate for even a barely tested WR or PR that they'll be actively looking for one on the waiver wire. The rest are more likely to be busy getting their current rosters ready to play the next game.

Week-4 just seems like "slightly better odds" to me.

Even better odds might occur during Thanksgiving week, when six teams are busy with the holiday games, and many of the other 25 are just trying to figure out how to avoid elimination from playoff contention.

 

[miloofcroton]

Lots of people disagreed with me on Britt. I will acknowledge that I went back and looked at some of his later games from last season, and he was better than what he initially looked like. Maybe he was hobbled or something in the game that I watched him play for the Browns. So, I will take him on the final roster...

X - Hogan, Britt
Z - Patterson, Decker
Slot - Edelman, Dorsett, Barrios

Week 1 roster: Britt, Hogan, Patterson, Decker, Dorsett
Practice Squad: Barrios
Suspended: Edelman

 

[Triumph]

Everyone’s in love with Patterson on this board. I honestly don’t know what the guy can bring offensively. He has a hard time getting separation. We need to hope edelman goes back to being the same explosive player or that a guy like Dorsett or britt step up big time.

Tough crowd

He brings great hands. Pattersons catch rate is 75%. Cordarrelle Patterson | Football Outsiders The Pats excel at putting players into schemes that succeed.

How is a guy so fast not able to gain separation? Patterson will be playing with the best QB in his short career and for the best HC and staff.

 

[Triumph]

Andelman
Patterson
Britt
Hogan
Dorsett

I keep hoping for draftee to to stick, but not putting any money on it.

 

[micronin127]

I would keep either Berrios or McCarron on the 53. I don't think the talent gap is that wide between either of them and other choices for a 5th receiver and both appear to have special teams value. They are also under exclusive team control for 3 years and RFA in 4th year.

Assume Edelman is #1, but for top 5 to make the 53 man roster, he doesn't count:
#1 Hogan (30) - UFA
#2 Dorsett (25) - UFA
#3 Decker (31) - UFA
#4 Berrios (22) - signed through 2020, RFA in 2021
#5 Patterson (27) - UFA

Last one cut: Britt (29) UFA, unless he goes to IR, with possibility to return after Week 8.

Practice squad receivers: McCarron and either Lucien/Turner

 

[Ring 6]

A real gym rat. First guy in, last guy out. Plays a real cerebral game.

I have to ask. How do you judge that a college football wr (who only caught 100 passes in his 4 year career bye) “plays a real cerebral game”? What is cerebral about playing WR and how does this player demonstrate excellence at it?

 

[jah]

I have to ask. How do you judge that a college football wr (who only caught 100 passes in his 4 year career bye) “plays a real cerebral game”? What is cerebral about playing WR and how does this player demonstrate excellence at it?

I was being sarcastic/making a reference to The League.

 

[Ring 6]

I was being sarcastic/making a reference to The League.

Ok gotcha. No wonder it was a head scratcher lol.

 

[Ring 6]

I would keep either Berrios or McCarron on the 53. I don't think the talent gap is that wide between either of them and other choices for a 5th receiver and both appear to have special teams value. They are also under exclusive team control for 3 years and RFA in 4th year.

Assume Edelman is #1, but for top 5 to make the 53 man roster, he doesn't count:
#1 Hogan (30) - UFA
#2 Dorsett (25) - UFA
#3 Decker (31) - UFA
#4 Berrios (22) - signed through 2020, RFA in 2021
#5 Patterson (27) - UFA

Last one cut: Britt (29) UFA, unless he goes to IR, with possibility to return after Week 8.

Practice squad receivers: McCarron and either Lucien/Turner

I don’t think berrios is an nfl caliber WR. I know it’s a great story and all but we aren’t winning with berrios needing to make plays.

 

[Ring 6]

Lots of people disagreed with me on Britt. I will acknowledge that I went back and looked at some of his later games from last season, and he was better than what he initially looked like. Maybe he was hobbled or something in the game that I watched him play for the Browns. So, I will take him on the final roster...

X - Hogan, Britt
Z - Patterson, Decker
Slot - Edelman, Dorsett, Barrios

Week 1 roster: Britt, Hogan, Patterson, Decker, Dorsett
Practice Squad: Barrios
Suspended: Edelman

Kudos for being open minded.

 

[maineman209]

Lots of people disagreed with me on Britt. I will acknowledge that I went back and looked at some of his later games from last season, and he was better than what he initially looked like. Maybe he was hobbled or something in the game that I watched him play for the Browns. So, I will take him on the final roster...

X - Hogan, Britt
Z - Patterson, Decker
Slot - Edelman, Dorsett, Barrios

Week 1 roster: Britt, Hogan, Patterson, Decker, Dorsett
Practice Squad: Barrios
Suspended: Edelman

McD's passing attack schemes frequently use ALL potential targets pretty much everywhere in formation, including TEs and RBs (even Dwayne Allen and Develin have been split out to the X). So, I tend to avoid being quick to pigeonhole guys as to where they'll line up.

That said, each of these guys may be most optimally used out of certain spots. So, going at it from that direction:

Hogan = X or Z equally, but probably some Y, too
Britt = Z, X, maybe some Y occasionally
Patterson = Z or Y
Decker = Z or Y
Edelman = X, Y or Z
Dorsett = X, Y or Z

Projecting Berrios/McCarron as Y or Z (McCarron got smothered at the LoS by Lewis in press on one play in practice).

To me, one of the primary requirements for the guy lined up directly on the LoS at X is the ability to consistently break close-proximity press-man coverage. The guy can either juke his way past it (Kenbrell Thompkins had one of the sweetest moves I've ever seen against the press out of the X), or muscle his way past it. However, a guy who muscles his way past press can still have his route-timing disrupted, simply from being physically engaged momentarily (although Brady seems to possess an uncanny ability to notice this pre-snap and to adjust his read-progression and timing to compensate).

OTOH, the Z (flanker) spot offers the receiver at least a one-yard cushion for his first step, so guys who may not be consistently successful against press can still run pretty much the same routes as the X. The Z spot also offers more opportunity for the receiver to take a "fake" step downfield, and then catch an uncontested quick forward pass behind the LoS and run with the ball. I suspect that Patterson may be the receiver on several such plays over the course of the season.