Who can we stash away after cuts?

[farn]

Lucien can & will (most likely) be cut. Which is fine. It's impressive that NE might not have room for players that are showing well this summer. But, the Patriots' season won't be ruined by Lucien moving on. I wish him luck.

I've thought from the start - considering depth at LB & how much they paid him to sign - that Langi had the best shot at making it (within the free agent crop).

I think players such as the H twins or maybe even DT Butler are best guesses to make the practice squad.

 

[amazinPats]

Bedard: "Everyone likes their own guys."

NFL teams tend to keep their own cuts of young guys on their PS. Let's hope we get to keep ours as well.

 

[patchick]

It might be time for a few cases of the Foxborough Flu

Langi probably needs to show some serious ST chops starting Thursday night, or he gets Foxboro Flu redshirt year.

 

[MagicMarker]

Bedard: "Everyone likes their own guys."

NFL teams tend to keep their own cuts of young guys on their PS. Let's hope we get to keep ours as well.

If you go back and look, though, the Patriots don't keep their own guys. By the end of the season, almost all of the practice squad will be filled with other team's guys.

Last year, we kept Lucien, and that was all. The rest of the practice squad guys came from elsewhere. The year before, at the end of the season, it was all other team's guys.

 

[jmt57]

If you go back and look, though, the Patriots don't keep their own guys. By the end of the season, almost all of the practice squad will be filled with other team's guys.

Last year, we kept Lucien, and that was all. The rest of the practice squad guys came from elsewhere. The year before, at the end of the season, it was all other team's guys.

True, but how many do other teams actually sign off New England's practice squad to their active roster? That's rare.

As for those signed after final cuts, how many form that group? A few in the frenzy between roster cuts and week one, when teams form their initial practice squads. Off the top of my head the only notable one was when the Pats decided to keep Nick Kaczur rather than rookie Ted Larsen. Even though he had a couple missed plays in preseason, I would have preferred giving Larsen more of a chance - but that has been the exception, and he was a draft pick as opposed to an UDFA.


Guys kept on the practice squad are essentially getting an extended audition. As the season progresses coaches get a better grasp on what those player's ceilings are. If it is not high enough then the decision is made to let them go, and give somebody else a chance to compete.

Without looking it up I would assume the season starts with more of 'their own guys' than other teams players. It is just a natural progression that during the season the team decides to either fish or cut bait from those within that group.

 

[luuked]

If we cut Lucien another team will grab him, undoubtedly

He needs to make the 53

Yeah, otherwise we might lose another Brian Tyms, Jonathan Krause, Jeremy Gallon or Quentin Sims. Every year people get obsessed with UDFAs only to forget they ever existed a season later. The reality is that Lucien has a higher chance to be a Jet in a few weeks than on the Patriots roster.

Didn't the NFL change the roster cutdown rules so that we go all the way from 90 to 53 at the end, rather than in stages? That might help slide a few people through, with over 1,000 players released pretty much at once rather than over multiple rounds of cuts. I would hate to lose Lucien, Carr, Foster, Moore, Butler, Hollister the TE, maybe others. I think Langi makes it onto the 53.

Ultimately, the teams most likely to snag players that are cut at the end of August are the ones we have joined practices with.

 

[jmt57]

For the record, here is what happened to players the Patriots let go after the start of 2016 training camp up until the initial practice squad was formed. (I know some of these are veterans, but I was working chronologically and was too lazy to look up who did or did not have practice squad eligibility - so they are all here.)

While other teams may indeed sign Patriot castoffs, most of the castoffs don't go on to do much of anything elsewhere.


OL Kyler Kerbyson
Signed with Tampa Bay; part of final roster cuts; re-signed to TB practice squad in November; not with any team now.

DB Brock Vereen
Spent two days on KC's practice squad.

TE Bear Pascoe
No transactions since being released by Patriots

S Cedric Thompson
Signed by Minn to PS in October; released a month later.

CB V'Angelo Bentley
No transactions since being released by Patriots

CB E.J. Biggers
No transactions since being released by Patriots

RB Donald Brown
No transactions since being released by Patriots

DE Frank Kearse
No transactions since being released by Patriots

WR Nate Washingon
No transactions since being released by Patriots

DT Terrance Knighton
No transactions since being released by Patriots (retired)

OL Bryan Stork
Retired

LB Ramon Humber
Signed by Bills; played all 16 games, on special teams

OT Keavon Milton
Split 2016 between Dallas and Pittsburgh's practice squads

TE Steven Scheu
Signed by Denver to their PS mid-October

G Chris Barker
Spent 2016 on Pats PS; now with Cleveland

WR Aaron Dobson
Spent two weeks with Detroit, but did not play

RB Tyler Gaffney
On/off Pats PS; 2016 forum version of D.J. Foster is now with Jags

DE Geneo Grissom
Re-signed to Pats PS; appeared in 11 games for Pats

LB Rufus Johnson
Short time on Pats PS; in '17 has been w/Wash and Oakland

DT Markus Kuhn
No transactions since being released by Patriots

WR Keshawn Marin
Appeared in one game with SF in 2016

CB Darryl Roberts
Waiver claim by Jets; played in 12 games with 2 starts

S Vinnie Sunseri
Split 2016 between NE and SF practice squads; played in 2 games for SF

DT Joe Vellano
Spent 2016 on Atlanta's practice squad

WR DeAndre Carter
Out of NFL in 2016; now with SF

OT Jon Halapio
Spent most of 2016 on NYG practice squad

WR Chris Harper
Bounced between PS & active roster for SF; 9 games, 2 starts, 13 receptions

FB Joey Iosefa
No transactions since being released by Patriots

LB Kevin Snyder
IR/injury settlement; signed in 2017 by Denver

DT Woodrow Hamilton
Was on Pats 53-man roster for majority of 2016; also on PS

LB Kamu Grugier-Hill
Waiver claim by Eagles; played in 12 games, primarily on ST

CB Cre'von LeBlanc
Waiver claim by Bears; played in 13 games with 9 starts

WR Devin Lucien
Spent all of 2016 on New England's PS

TE Bryce Williams
Spent 2016 on Rams PS; has since been with Seattle and Carolina.



Original 2016 Practice Squad:
OL Chris Barker
OL Chris DeBord
DL Geneo Grissom
DL Woodrow Hamilton
LB Rufus Johnson
WR Devin Lucien
RB Bishop Sankey
WR Devin Street
DB Mike Hilton
S Vinnie Sunseri


Cuts That Played Elsewhere in 2016:
LB Ramon Humber (16 games with Bills on special teams)
CB Cre'Von LeBlanc (13 games, 9 starts for Bears)
CB Darryl Roberts (12 games for Jets, with two starts)
LB Kamu Grugier-Hill (12 games with Eagles, mostly ST)
WR Chris Harper (9 games with SF, 2 starts, 13 receptions)
S Vinnie Sunseri (2 games with SF)
WR Keshawn Martin (1 game with SF)



So here is my question: who from that final group should the Patriots have kept? Even with the benefit of hindsight, that also means that you have to keep some corresponding player off the 2016 roster.

Maybe Humber for Mingo, but at that time Mingo had a lot more immediate upside for the 2016 season. At the time it made sense to keep Mingo.

Perhaps LeBlanc for another corner, but which one? Cyrus Jones was a rookie 2nd round pick, and Jonathan Jones earned a roster spot with his special team play. Maybe LeBlanc over Justin Coleman, but that's mostly based on hindsight.


I think there may be a whole lot of unnecessary angst over the potential loss of players who will be part of the final roster cuts prior to week one in four weeks.

 

[supafly]

Go ahead and preach it, patchick.

 

[long distance]

For the record, here is what happened to players the Patriots let go after the start of 2016 training camp up until the initial practice squad was formed. (I know some of these are veterans, but I was working chronologically and was too lazy to look up who did or did not have practice squad eligibility - so they are all here.)

While other teams may indeed sign Patriot castoffs, most of the castoffs don't go on to do much of anything elsewhere.


OL Kyler Kerbyson
Signed with Tampa Bay; part of final roster cuts; re-signed to TB practice squad in November; not with any team now.

DB Brock Vereen
Spent two days on KC's practice squad.

TE Bear Pascoe
No transactions since being released by Patriots

S Cedric Thompson
Signed by Minn to PS in October; released a month later.

CB V'Angelo Bentley
No transactions since being released by Patriots

CB E.J. Biggers
No transactions since being released by Patriots

RB Donald Brown
No transactions since being released by Patriots

DE Frank Kearse
No transactions since being released by Patriots

WR Nate Washingon
No transactions since being released by Patriots

DT Terrance Knighton
No transactions since being released by Patriots (retired)

OL Bryan Stork
Retired

LB Ramon Humber
Signed by Bills; played all 16 games, on special teams

OT Keavon Milton
Split 2016 between Dallas and Pittsburgh's practice squads

TE Steven Scheu
Signed by Denver to their PS mid-October

G Chris Barker
Spent 2016 on Pats PS; now with Cleveland

WR Aaron Dobson
Spent two weeks with Detroit, but did not play

RB Tyler Gaffney
On/off Pats PS; 2016 forum version of D.J. Foster is now with Jags

DE Geneo Grissom
Re-signed to Pats PS; appeared in 11 games for Pats

LB Rufus Johnson
Short time on Pats PS; in '17 has been w/Wash and Oakland

DT Markus Kuhn
No transactions since being released by Patriots

WR Keshawn Marin
Appeared in one game with SF in 2016

CB Darryl Roberts
Waiver claim by Jets; played in 12 games with 2 starts

S Vinnie Sunseri
Split 2016 between NE and SF practice squads; played in 2 games for SF

DT Joe Vellano
Spent 2016 on Atlanta's practice squad

WR DeAndre Carter
Out of NFL in 2016; now with SF

OT Jon Halapio
Spent most of 2016 on NYG practice squad

WR Chris Harper
Bounced between PS & active roster for SF; 9 games, 2 starts, 13 receptions

FB Joey Iosefa
No transactions since being released by Patriots

LB Kevin Snyder
IR/injury settlement; signed in 2017 by Denver

DT Woodrow Hamilton
Was on Pats 53-man roster for majority of 2016; also on PS

LB Kamu Grugier-Hill
Waiver claim by Eagles; played in 12 games, primarily on ST

CB Cre'von LeBlanc
Waiver claim by Bears; played in 13 games with 9 starts

WR Devin Lucien
Spent all of 2016 on New England's PS

TE Bryce Williams
Spent 2016 on Rams PS; has since been with Seattle and Carolina.



Original 2016 Practice Squad:
OL Chris Barker
OL Chris DeBord
DL Geneo Grissom
DL Woodrow Hamilton
LB Rufus Johnson
WR Devin Lucien
RB Bishop Sankey
WR Devin Street
DB Mike Hilton
S Vinnie Sunseri


Cuts That Played Elsewhere in 2016:
LB Ramon Humber (16 games with Bills on special teams)
CB Cre'Von LeBlanc (13 games, 9 starts for Bears)
CB Darryl Roberts (12 games for Jets, with two starts)
LB Kamu Grugier-Hill (12 games with Eagles, mostly ST)
WR Chris Harper (9 games with SF, 2 starts, 13 receptions)
S Vinnie Sunseri (2 games with SF)
WR Keshawn Martin (1 game with SF)



So here is my question: who from that final group should the Patriots have kept? Even with the benefit of hindsight, that also means that you have to keep some corresponding player off the 2016 roster.

Maybe Humber for Mingo, but at that time Mingo had a lot more immediate upside for the 2016 season. At the time it made sense to keep Mingo.

Perhaps LeBlanc for another corner, but which one? Cyrus Jones was a rookie 2nd round pick, and Jonathan Jones earned a roster spot with his special team play. Maybe LeBlanc over Justin Coleman, but that's mostly based on hindsight.


I think there may be a whole lot of unnecessary angst over the potential loss of players who will be part of the final roster cuts prior to week one in four weeks.

This is a good indication of PS they originally wanted:



All home-grown. They were multi-reportedly disappointed to lose KGH, LeBlanc and D Roberts. I believe they would all be very competitive for jobs again this year even on this stacked roster.
__


As for this year . the roster is much deeper than last year . and draft class was much deeper than last year . not to mention Pats were able to get the cream of UDFA class (note that they still haven't cut a single one of the 22 UDFA signed which is unreal; just put Vereen on IR)

It will be heartbreaking carnage in September for all who follow this years roster closely. And we will see quite a few guys contribute elsewhere I believe..

 

[patchick]

Yeah, otherwise we might lose another Brian Tyms, Jonathan Krause, Jeremy Gallon or Quentin Sims. Every year people get obsessed with UDFAs only to forget they ever existed a season later.

Well, we do remember Malcolm Butler, David Andrews, Brandon King and Jonathan Jones.

Which is to say, maybe we seldom regret the UDFAs they cut because every year they DO make room on a perennially stacked roster to keep the best of them. (Not to mention the other camp phenoms who started out as super long shots -- the street FAs and late-round afterthoughts like Dion Lewis and Julian Edelman.)

I expect this year to be no exception. As full-to-brimming as the roster is, the Pats made just 4 draft picks, and only 3 of them are likely to stick on the roster. With an eye toward the future, I'd be surprised if they carried only 3 rookies.

So I'm betting on a couple of UDFAs/long shots sticking. The current way-too-early favorites look like Langi, Butler, Moore and Croston. Lucien and Carr join the favorites list if there are injuries; Johnston and Jones if they impress on special teams; McDermott if he continues his apparently steep learning trajectory.

 

[Ivan]

Lucien makes the 53, forcing BB to a hard choice. Danny A traded?

Not gonna happen.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The Pats have had 1-3 UDFAs on the roster since 2003 & have averaged 3.5 making the team since 2013.

Carr hasn't impressed me all that much in person. Before preseason game 1 we seem like were down to 3 strong contenders:

Harvey Langi DE/OLB
Adam Butler sub package DT
Kenny Moore CB

With likely only 3 draft picks making the team, I can see 2/3 UDFAs making the team.

Regarding Lucien, I wouldn't keep a 6th WR over any front seven player with promise. Cooks/Edelman/Mitchell/Hogan is the future at the position for a few seasons too. I think he'd make the PS.

D.J Foster is talented but not better than any of the 4 RBs. He'll probably get picked up somewhere.

 

[PatsFan2]

Lucien makes the 53, forcing BB to a hard choice. Danny A traded?

DA is just too Clutch plus he has ST's and Slot value...the Pats can carry Six WR's our Third TE have not distinguish himself yet. I would prefer a Sixth WR with upside over a crap Blocking TE who could be replaced by a O Lineman.

 

[Ivan]

Belichick chooses the final roster spots for versatility and ST value, the more roles they can fill the more likely they are to make the final cut. Binkies don't figure into the equation.

 

[patchick]

Belichick chooses the final roster spots for versatility and ST value, the more roles they can fill the more likely they are to make the final cut. Binkies don't figure into the equation.

Usually true, but a highly promising binky can definitely make the cut. Malcolm Butler was not versatile and had little ST value but made the roster based on his TC showing of pure sweet binkiness.

 

[scott99]

Langi will be on the Pats 53. The rest will not get through waivers. My hope is we can get players like Hollister and Ferentz/croston on the PS.

I agree with this, Langi has the best shot at making the 53 out of all of the UDFAs.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you go back and look, though, the Patriots don't keep their own guys. By the end of the season, almost all of the practice squad will be filled with other team's guys.

Last year, we kept Lucien, and that was all. The rest of the practice squad guys came from elsewhere. The year before, at the end of the season, it was all other team's guys.

Lucien wasn't the only one on the Pats PS the entirety of 2016. Chris Barker and Woodrow Hamilton also were on the Pats PS from Day 1.

The Pats change the PS based on their needs, based on how the player is developing and based on if there is a better player available.. They don't make changes for the sake of changes.

 

[DaBruinz]

As for this year . the roster is much deeper than last year . and draft class was much deeper than last year . not to mention Pats were able to get the cream of UDFA class (note that they still haven't cut a single one of the 22 UDFA signed which is unreal; just put Vereen on IR)

It will be heartbreaking carnage in September for all who follow this years roster closely. And we will see quite a few guys contribute elsewhere I believe..

Why would they cut a UDFA before the first pre-season game? It takes a lot for them to make that sort of cut. I mean, you have to be downright sucking it. In fact, isn't it better that they keep the full 90 man roster until they have to do cut-downs after game 4.. Much more likely for someone to sneak through when you have to cut 37 players all at once.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Yeah, otherwise we might lose another Brian Tyms, Jonathan Krause, Jeremy Gallon or Quentin Sims. Every year people get obsessed with UDFAs only to forget they ever existed a season later. The reality is that Lucien has a higher chance to be a Jet in a few weeks than on the Patriots roster.



Ultimately, the teams most likely to snag players that are cut at the end of August are the ones we have joined practices with.

I completely forgot about my binkie Tyms.

 

[DaBruinz]

With likely only 3 draft picks making the team, I can see 2/3 UDFAs making the team.

The Patriots only had 4 Draft Picks. Rivers, Wise, McDermott, Garcia. In Belichick's history, he's never cut a 4th round pick or higher out of training camp.

Are you honestly telling me that Garcia or Rivers have been so bad they deserve to be cut?