Wes Welker vs. Julian Edelman for the Hall of Fame

[Patjew]

Check out the other thread. 1986

Forum wide. The guy is trashed

One poster actually said that WW wasn’t some elite talent just some guy who could run 6 yards and catch a ball

I see. I don’t think he’s trashed forum-wide, but there is definitely some negativity about him. I think it’s because of two drops and then playing with Manning. And a nasty block against us. That being said, I think all but a loud minority of us love WWW and what he did here. Dude should have been the MVP of SB42.

 

[Bruins29]

I see. I don’t think he’s trashed forum-wide, but there is definitely some negativity about him. I think it’s because of two drops and then playing with Manning. And a nasty block against us. That being said, I think all but a loud minority of us love WWW and what he did here. Dude should have been the MVP of SB42.

Agree. Its probably not forum wide but there are a small contingent here that cant handle people praising him etc. Most posters are smart enough to give credit where its due

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

The only thing giving this discussion more than one 1 minute of thought is the fact that Welker was COLD in the post season where as Edelman was at his best in the post season.

That said... For 5 seasons straight the whole NFL knew Brady was throwing to Welker 12 times a game. Every coach , analyst, defensive coordinator, every defensive player, every single person in stadium and every person at home infront of the TV knew it....

No one could do a thing about it. Welker got open as quick as I have ever seen till this day. 1st down after 1st down. Spectacular.. it's so sad how it ended for him here..deserved more...he took some BLASTS to keep drives going.

So if I'm constructing a football team I'd pick Welker before Edelman...same goes for HOF.

If I'm picking one for a bar fight ...or to pick up chicks... Edelman hands down.

Thank God my wife doesn't read the boards.

 

[RIpats88]

The only thing giving this discussion more than one 1 minute of thought is the fact that Welker was COLD in the post season where as Edelman was at his best in the post season.

That said... For 5 seasons straight the whole NFL knew Brady was throwing to Welker 12 times a game. Every coach , analyst, defensive coordinator, every defensive player, every single person in stadium and every person at home infront of the TV knew it....

No one could do a thing about it. Welker got open as quick as I have ever seen till this day. 1st down after 1st down. Spectacular.. it's so sad how it ended for him here..deserved more...he took some BLASTS to keep drives going.

So if I'm constructing a football team I'd pick Welker before Edelman...same goes for HOF.

If I'm picking one for a bar fight ...or to pick up chicks... Edelman hands down.

Thank God my wife doesn't read the boards.

Well that's the thing. We will always remember welker for the dropped pass in the Superbowl and Edelman for all his amazing postseason plays.

But if we are talking just stats, welker definitely. He had 1000 yard seasons like it was automatic. And really revolutionized the slot position

 

[Marko]

I have told this story here before but here goes, in 2015 ish my son was training with an ex practice squad DB from the Pats. He told us that he could not cover Welker because he was just too quick even though he had better straight line speed. He told us that BB used to coach him not to try to stick with him but let him make his move and catch up after. That’s the type of quickness Welker had.

 

[Patjew]

Edelman better thrower, WWW much better kicker.

 

[Bruins29]

I have told this story here before but here goes, in 2015 ish my son was training with an ex practice squad DB from the Pats. He told us that he could not cover Welker because he was just too quick even though he had better straight line speed. He told us that BB used to coach him not to try to stick with him but let him make his move and catch up after. That’s the type of quickness Welker had.

BuT iRvInG fRyEr aNd sTaNlEy MoRgaN wErE mOr tAleNteD tHaN mOsS aNd WeLkEr

LMAO

 

[resdubwhite]

Only for those who are clueless about what actually happened

There he is. King of the witty come backs.

 

[crawhammer]

I never considered a ball thrown to the wrong side that he had to turn around, go airborne for, catch while falling backwards, and the ball comes out when he hits the ground, a drop. I know I am in the minority here, but it was almost an amazing catch of a bad pass. BTW love them both, but Troy was the OG, too!

There was a DB closing in from Welker's right so Brady placed it on Welker's back shoulder. Welker didn't adjust perfectly to the throw, his footwork was a bit off, but still the ball fell right into his hands and he flat out dropped it. Brady commented on this play in one of his Man in the Arena episodes where he said he was trying to keep Welker away from the safety in the middle of the field. I'm convinced they would have won the game with a completion there.

Are you misusing this expression because you think it means he was good or are you actually calling Edelman bad in the post season?

I suppose I would have been clearer if I'd said Edelman had balls in the postseason... meaning he was fearless and tough.

Here's how I would summarize this debate...

Welker is a HOF career without a Super Bowl championship.
Edelman is a clutch 3x Super Bowl champion without a HOF career.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's weird how people blame Welker for the Patriots getting the asses kicked by the Ravens in the 2012 AFC Championship. I've been in numerous threads about the drop in SB46, so I won't open that can of worms (I think it was 90% his fault), but the Ravens one is pretty baffling. Sure, he dropped the pass, but it was a pretty routine type of thing...guys drop passes. You'll find these happen in every game, including games the Patriots won and games they lost. When they win, people forget it happened.

It was 3rd and 7 from the 33. A catch, and it's first down at the 25. Considering how the Patriots were steamrolled by the Ravens, we're very far from a guarantee that they even move the ball much further there.

This was followed by yet another bizarre Belichick postseason decision to punt the ball from the 33, which resulted in a 21 yard punt, a totally senseless risk/reward decision.

Welker had 8 catches on 12 targets for 117 yards and a TD in that game. He was the only player on offense who showed up.

The idea that "this changed the entire momentum of the game" is pretty ridiculous. One 8-yard dropped pass at the beginning of the third quarter. You can only take the argument so far. Here's the real reason Welker gets so much blame:

• He went to Denver the next year, causing the fan base to turn on him.
• After Giselle was no longer the irrational source of blame for the team's title drought, Welker became the natural replacement.

 

[pazrul72]

For me its Welker and its not even close. Dude was an absolute machine not to mention the toughest SOB you will ever see put on pads. HOF for me is did you do something no one else has done? 5 years in a row of 100 receptions. Had a 1500 yard season. Was part of how many of the top 50 all time scoring offenses? He is the reason that a slot WR can be called a #1 because he was that damn good for that damn long.

Now I love Jules, he is a great story and a huge reason for some Lombardis around here. However his production everywhere except the playoffs just does not even come close. I dont think he was any more clutch or better then Welker in the playoffs he just had more, and better chances due to Gronk though full credit for making the plays he did. Absolute first ballet this is the patriot way Patriot HOFer but zero chance at the HOF.

I break it down like this
1 play = give me JE11
1 game = this is close and while I would say Welker I can understand an Eldeman selection
1 season = Welker by a ton
A career = don't be silly Welker lapped him. Twice.

 

[Ian]

This isn't even close. It's Welker. That's not a knock on Edelman, either. It's just that Welker is the best dedicated slotWR in NFL history.

Man...I don't know if you can say it "isn't even close", it seems like it's closer than people might think. Although it's tough because the one thing that can make that argument is the fact there's no Edelman without Welker. So it's essentially the whole "chicken or the egg" problem. But in terms of postseason performance and excellence in the clutch...Edelman has to get the edge. Welker was great, but Edelman edged him out in that department. But, again, the thing that gives Welker the win overall is his career totals, along with the fact Edelman's overall success potentially doesn't happen had he not played with Welker to begin with. If he hadn't, I sort of wonder if he ever would have broken through. He gleaned everything and then some, and worked his a** off to do it.

The Hall obviously views overall numbers, so like you said, Welker clearly wins out. But I'm a little tired and I sort of drifted into the tangent of who was better/clutch, etc, which obviously isn't relevant. Hall of Fame-wise, Welker would definitely be the guy.

 

[JMC00]

I'd have Edelman over Welker in the Pats HOF. nfl HOF Welker would be in over Edelman. Edelman just doesnt have the volume although does close the gap with his playoff performances, which Welker didn't really have. Welker had 3 games over 100 in the playoffs in , Edelman had 7 games.

10+ targets in a playoff game from Brady
Welker: 4
Edelman: 13

Sidenote;

People **** on the Pats for WR drafting yet # of SB MVP WRs drafted
Steelers- 3
Pats- 2
Raiders- 1
Rest of NFL- 0

 

[Ian]

I'd have Edelman over Welker in the Pats HOF. nfl HOF Welker would be in over Edelman. Edelman just doesnt have the volume although does close the gap with his playoff performances, which Welker didn't really have. Welker had 3 games over 100 in the playoffs in , Edelman had 7 games.

10+ targets in a playoff game from Brady
Welker: 4
Edelman: 13

He had an unreal year and was on fire in 2009. He caught 123 passes for an incredible 1348-yards in just 14 games that year and probably would have had just a solid of a postseason had he not gotten hurt.

 

[pazrul72]

So I went and looked because I was curious. Welker was part of 4, yes count them 4 top 20 highest scoring offenses of all time. 2007, 2010, 2011, and 2012. He might not have been the one getting it across the goal lone very often but when he was on the field any 3rd and 7 was almost a gimmie to convert and that ability to keep an offense on schedule was so crucial.

The other often over looked part of what made Welker so great was he missed two preseason games with an ankle injury, 3 games with a torn ACL, and zero games with a back injury. That's it for his patriot career until Manning started throwing him hospital balls and he missed a bunch with concussions. Eldeman may have gone harder and delivered more shots but he also missed at least a game or two every year and was dinged up constantly.

Again I LOVE JE11 and he seemed like a better team mate with a fiery personality that never quit even in the darkest moment. He was Robin to Brady's Batman way more then Welker but for people saying he is even in the discussion with Welker I have to ask for some of what you are smoking.

 

[Deus Irae]

Man...I don't know if you can say it "isn't even close", it seems like it's closer than people might think. Although it's tough because the one thing that can make that argument is the fact there's no Edelman without Welker. So it's essentially the whole "chicken or the egg" problem. But in terms of postseason performance and excellence in the clutch...Edelman has to get the edge. Welker was great, but Edelman edged him out in that department. But, again, the thing that gives Welker the win overall is his career totals, along with the fact Edelman's overall success potentially doesn't happen had he not played with Welker to begin with. If he hadn't, I sort of wonder if he ever would have broken through. He gleaned everything and then some, and worked his a** off to do it.

The Hall obviously views overall numbers, so like you said, Welker clearly wins out. But I'm a little tired and I sort of drifted into the tangent of who was better/clutch, etc, which obviously isn't relevant. Hall of Fame-wise, Welker would definitely be the guy.

Did you know that Welker had as many postseason TDs as Edelman, in 6 fewer games? Welker's postseason play is mostly ignored, except to complain about the drop, when Edelman also was dropping balls during his postseason games. And people also forget that both Hernandez and Branch had huge drops after Welker's, in 2011. And people here were initially blaming Brady for that play, which is kind of wild in how it's played out, really. People went from blaming Brady, to blaming Welker, to somehow using that play as an excuse to rating Edelman above him, when Welker caught 19 of 23 targets that postseason, and 7 of 8 in that SB.

Edelman didn't leave the team, and Edelman was here during the second title surge. That's a huge part of why people remember him fondly while dismissing Welker. Edelman was also the better receiver when you got into deeper routes. But, as an overall receiver, particularly as a slotWR, Welker was much better.

 

[everlong]

Without that press conference, there's a very high chance the Patriots win the SB that year.

I believe they beat the Jets easily. But that presser possibly gave them more motivation than the Patriots wanted.

2010 Patriots were far and away the best team in the league.

I don't think they were. That defense wasn't very good. Just the fact that they lost to that Jets team who they had crushed earlier in the year shows how vulnerable they were. When Mark the butt fumble Sanchez walks the ball up and down the field on you......

Packers and Ravens both would have been tough matchups had they advanced. The Steelers they would have beaten.

 

[BTTA]

The only way Edelman gets selected over Welker is if you change the question being answered.

Question: "What is your favorite ice cream flavor?" Answer: "I like sprinkles on it." Oh, OK, Edelman then.

Plus, people get pissed at Welker because he left for a contract that was considered a deal for the Broncos. Maybe the Pats thought he was on a performance downslope that was steeper than it turned out to be, or they knew that they'd get good performance from Edelman at that point for pennies.

Neither guy was paid what he was worth over the course of their career, which is the saddest part of this (although getting sad for millionaires regardless is pretty silly).

 

[Patriot Missile]

The problem with this typemof thread is it always comes down to a Welker bashing fest. They were both great.

 

[Bruins29]

The problem with this typemof thread is it always comes down to a Welker bashing fest. They were both great.

Or who you "liked" better, which is irrelevant.