Wes Welker vs. Julian Edelman for the Hall of Fame

[brdmaverick]

As much as everyone hates on the actual Pro Bowl game itself, I think that is the MOST telling thing against Julian Edelman for HOF.

I mean, how can you honestly be considered one of the greatest of all time when you were NEVER (even in your best season) considered one of the top four in your conference?

This is coming from a HUGE Edelman fan.

 

[Pape]

As much as everyone hates on the actual Pro Bowl game itself, I think that is the MOST telling thing against Julian Edelman for HOF.

I mean, how can you honestly be considered one of the greatest of all time when you were NEVER (even in your best season) considered one of the top four in your conference?

This is coming from a HUGE Edelman fan.

I tend not to place a significant amount of weight on the pro bowl... its basically become a popularity contest over the past 20 years with fan voting included... some guys deserve the accolades, some don't, and there are always guys who get left out when they shouldn't...

I said it in the other thread, I think WW was the best receiver the Patriots ever had. He is worthy of the HoF. He was just that dominant as a player while he was here.

But I think Julian Edelman at the very least deserves consideration. His regular season numbers will keep him out i think, but his case should be heard... but that would require ron borges to get off his fat plagiarizing ass and argue his worthiness anyways... do his damn job, ya know? Its embarrassing how few Patriots are in the HoF... he's the NE representative... he needs to do a better job or get ****canned in favor of someone who will...

and If WW and JE ever went head to head for the Patriots HoF nomination? JE11, Mr Foxboro Forever, would get my tip of the cap...

 

[brdmaverick]

I tend not to place a significant amount of weight on the pro bowl... its basically become a popularity contest over the past 20 years with fan voting included... some guys deserve the accolades, some don't, and there are always guys who get left out when they shouldn't...

The Pro Bowl has its flaws, but 'admittedly without doing any research' I'd be shocked if you told me there was any Hall of Fame player at skill position that NEVER made at least one Pro Bowl.

Again, how can you be one of the all time greats if you were never one of the best amongst your peers (even for a specific season)?

 

[Steve102]

Welker gets chit on because of the drop.

So would I, but I wouldn’t put him into the Hall before Welker. Welker doing what he did here made it possible for Edelman to even have a career.

Exactly. Welker's contributions and elite play is way too easily dismissed.

I have been part of the Jules Is Awesome crowd to be sure. I do believe it recency bias. Jules get's elevated for the Atlanta catch, while Wes lacks that type of immortalizing moment. Jules gets extra credit for the rings, while Wes suffers due to a lack of same. But if you look at the OP's post it's pretty clear who had the better numbers.

 

[sb1]

Edelman meant more to the Pats then WW imo.

I doubt either of them get inducted to Canton.

 

[Pape]

The Pro Bowl has its flaws, but 'admittedly without doing any research' I'd be shocked if you told me there was any Hall of Fame player at skill position that NEVER made at least one Pro Bowl.

Again, how can you be one of the all time greats if you were never one of the best amongst your peers (even for a specific season)?

That interesting... Will have to look it up

 

[PatsFan2]

let me put it slightly differently. Edelman V Welker for Pats HOF. Who wins?

Edelman. And it isn't even close.

Edelman makes that catch butter fingers dropped.

 

[Pape]

The Pro Bowl has its flaws, but 'admittedly without doing any research' I'd be shocked if you told me there was any Hall of Fame player at skill position that NEVER made at least one Pro Bowl.

Again, how can you be one of the all time greats if you were never one of the best amongst your peers (even for a specific season)?

closest I could find was 1... RB John Riggins...

is a Super Bowl MVP, like Jules...

but i was a little surprised that there were a bunch of guys, HoF players with only 3 or 4 pro bowl nods.

So to me... on the list of accomplishments and accolades, pro bowls don't really rank. ymmv.

 

[sb1]

Is there a way to find out who actually made the pro bowl vs who was selected as an alternate?

Like Mac - he did not "make" the pro bowl, he was chosen as an alternate.

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

Edelman didn't drop the game winner in a SuperBowl. Pretty sure he never lead the league in drops over two seasons like Welker did either.

 

[Bruins29]

Edelman didn't drop the game winner in a SuperBowl. Pretty sure he never lead the league in drops over two seasons like Welker did either.

Welker had better hands than JE so I am not sure of your point.

 

[Ivan]

I was pissed when Belichick screwed with Welker, and Welker walked. I thought Belichick was wrong because Brady had to have an instant outlet to get the ball to, or he and their offense would be screwed. I was somewhat mollified by the signing of Amendola, as that appeared to fill that role. I liked Edelman but in no way did I see him turning into the player he turned himself into. It’s Edelman over Welker easily. Edelman was critical to their second run of Lombardi’s, and made the biggest plays when they were needed the most. I think there is a real argument to be made for slot receivers, like nose tackles, being recognized as their own categories and getting into the HOF. If so, Edelman should be among the first in.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I was pissed when Belichick screwed with Welker, and Welker walked.

Normally I would bash Bill for any of his blunders like this, but Welker and his Agent were playing games.

From what I remember, Welker was asking for a big deal, but Bill offered similar to what he eventually signed with the Broncos for. Welker was acting like a turd.

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

Welker had better hands than JE so I am not sure of your point.

My point is Welker had a chance to secure a SuperBowl for us and blew it. That is what I think about when I hear the name Wes Welker. Same as Asante Samuel. Same as Ray Allen's selfish choke job in the Finals, etc Another example: Rask was a decent goalie, but he never won a Cup as starter. When I think of him I think of him coming up small against inferior Blackhawks and Blues teams. Any conversation about Welker has to include the infamous drop.
And Welker dropped more passes-per-target than any wide receiver in football over a two season stretch. That point seems pretty obvious. I'm not going to run the numbers, But it seems a bit silly to claim that guy had better hands than Jules.

 

[Pape]

Is there a way to find out who actually made the pro bowl vs who was selected as an alternate?

Like Mac - he did not "make" the pro bowl, he was chosen as an alternate.

you have to go look at each years teams, then compare

2021 NFL Pro Bowlers | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2021 NFL Pro Bowlers including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Bruins29]

And Welker dropped more passes-per-target than any wide receiver in football over a two season stretch. That point seems pretty obvious. I'm not going to run the numbers, But it seems a bit silly to claim that guy had better hands than Jules.

WW had way better hands than Jules. Sure, lets not look at the numbers. I mean why bother doing that. Lets just go on feelings.....Much more accurate.

And what does any of this have to do with WW and the HOF.

So he hurt your feelings. Get over it.

 

[Ivan]

Normally I would bash Bill for any of his blunders like this, but Welker and his Agent were playing games.

From what I remember, Welker was asking for a big deal, but Bill offered similar to what he eventually signed with the Broncos for. Welker was acting like a turd.

If you are going to quote apost the quote the whole thing, don’t crop it to look like something it isn’t. My point was that Belichick was right and I was wrong about it.

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

WW had way better hands than Jules. Sure, lets not look at the numbers. I mean why bother doing that. Lets just go on feelings.....Much more accurate.

And what does any of this have to do with WW and the HOF.

So he hurt your feelings. Get over it.

Provide numbers then if you are so certain of your claim. Welker dropped **** constantly, including lots of of third down passes. Sorry, but I have better things to do than research stats for an internet forum post.
And Welker didn't hurt my feelings any more than Jules hurt yours. What a weird attempted dig. One guy was clutch, one was not. That should matter when ranking players against each other. Not such either belong in the Hall. But if I could choose only one, it would be Edelman.

 

[Bruins29]

Provide numbers then if you are so certain of your claim. Welker dropped **** constantly, including lots of of third down passes. Sorry, but I have better things to do than research stats for an internet forum post.
And Welker didn't hurt my feelings any more than Jules hurt yours. What a weird attempted dig. One guy was clutch, one was not. That should matter when ranking players against each other. Not such either belong in the Hall. But if I could choose only one, it would be Edelman.

So basically what you are saying is that you have no idea what you are talking about. To make matters worse you are only concerned with what you feel and not reality. We call that pink hat syndrome

Here is a little article for you. Since you are clearly too lazy to read or research anything I will pull out the important parts below it

Wes Welker Upgrades the Slot Machine from the Patriots to the Broncos

Wide receivers have been dominating the NFL ’s 2013 free-agency period, and Wednesday delivered perhaps the most stunning move when Wes Welker signed with the Denver Broncos for just two years and $12 million, according to ESPN ...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

“””Since 1990, no wide receiver (minimum 400 receptions) has a higher catch rate (71.18 percent) or yards-after-catch percentage (52.19 percent) than Welker.”””

“””You can see his catch rate has fallen a little the last three seasons as he has had more issues with drops, but 69.2 percent would still likely be the best percentage in NFL history. Welker is also converting a higher rate of his catches into first downs over the last two years.”””

Welker catch rate with the pats was 72.6

Jules was 65.9

So who had the better hands ?

 

[crawhammer]

Welker had the bigger drops but my overall recollection is he also had the better hands. Drops really started to pile up for Edelman at the end of his career. I don't think there was a better route runner out of the slot than Welker either. He had the misfortune of being sandwiched between dynasties 1.0 and 2.0.