We Are TWO Players Away - Overpay In Trades For QB and WR.

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is a bizarre post. We drafted a QB. He sucked. We need to draft another one.

Once again you wildly overrate Mac Jones. To call Mac Jones a decent QB is absurd. You seriously think he's a decent QB?

You’re into semantics here but I have been consistent about him for almost two years. He’s a fringe starter or a good backup QB.

 

[upstater1]

Stockpiled a lot of talent? We haven’t had an all pro since Gilmore in 2019. Where is this stockpile of great talent?

Did I say great? No. He has stockpiled a lot of talent. Yes, and they are young. Everywhere except QB and WR. Dugger and Peppers, Gonzalez and the 3 Joneses. Barmore, Keion White, Judon, Uche, Bentley and possibly now Jennings playing well. We have 4 young guards who would instantly look like a top line if only the QB knew there is a thing called a pocket behind them. Onwenu was rated the 2nd best guard in football last year. Mafi has looked good for a rookie.

If we had a #1 WR, the guys we have now would be fine as a supporting cast: Bourne, Parker, Douglas and Boutte. The 2 TEs are fine as supporting cast: Henry and Gesicki. We have 28 good players.

 

[upstater1]

You’re into semantics here but I have been consistent about him for almost two years. He’s a fringe starter or a good backup QB.

It's not semantics at all. You referred to the people saying we just need a decent QB. That's not Mac. There's a big difference here. Do I believe an average QB would be a vast improvement? Yes.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's not semantics at all. You referred to the people saying we just need a decent QB. That's not Mac. There's a big difference here. Do I believe an average QB would be a vast improvement? Yes.

It’s been 4 years. More than enough time to get average QB play. That’s on Bill. He had years and years to prepare for the succession.

 

[Brick27]

Two players away from what exactly? Could trade with the Chiefs tomorrow for Mahomes and Mr. Pfizer but would still have concerns about the state of the roster.

 

[Boomer B]

Did I say great? No. He has stockpiled a lot of talent. Yes, and they are young. Everywhere except QB and WR. Dugger and Peppers, Gonzalez and the 3 Joneses. Barmore, Keion White, Judon, Uche, Bentley and possibly now Jennings playing well. We have 4 young guards who would instantly look like a top line if only the QB knew there is a thing called a pocket behind them. Onwenu was rated the 2nd best guard in football last year. Mafi has looked good for a rookie.

If we had a #1 WR, the guys we have now would be fine as a supporting cast: Bourne, Parker, Douglas and Boutte. The 2 TEs are fine as supporting cast: Henry and Gesicki. We have 28 good players.

Sorry, but saying we have 4 young guards who would instantly look like a top line is fantasy. Cole Strange has underperformed. Owenu has regressed. The others we don’t know yet.

Bentley, Uche, Peppers, etc are all ok to decent players. Every team has those types.

We don’t have All-Pros, and we only have a few upper echelon players (Judon, maybe Gonzalez). Other than those 2 who is upper echelon?

This team has a huge lack of talent, especially on O. Our talent base is the worst in the division and one of the worst in the AFC.

 

[upstater1]

It’s been 4 years. More than enough time to get average QB play. That’s on Bill. He had years and years to prepare for the succession.

Translate this. What are you talking about?

The vast majority of teams get their QBs through the draft. There are 16 other teams in the NFL who did not succeed in finding a QB with their first rounder in the last several years. Not only the Patriots. Many of these teams moved on and ended up finding someone passable who is a better player than the one they took, others dipped back into the draft.

In retrospect, we shouldn't have taken Mac Jones. But if you didn't take Mac Jones in 2021 at #15, you shouldn't be running a team. It would've been idiotic not to take him. You act like it's easy finding a QB after Brady. We're 2 years and 4 games in at this point; which is about the time you make the decision to cut bait with the guy.

 

[upstater1]

Sorry, but saying we have 4 young guards who would instantly look like a top line is fantasy. Cole Strange has underperformed. Owenu has regressed. The others we don’t know yet.

Bentley, Uche, Peppers, etc are all ok to decent players. Every team has those types.

We don’t have All-Pros, and we only have a few upper echelon players (Judon, maybe Gonzalez). Other than those 2 who is upper echelon?

This team has a huge lack of talent, especially on O. Our talent base is the worst in the division and one of the worst in the AFC.

The OL is saddled with a QB that runs right into their blocks. It's impossible to block for this idiot. He bails right into outside rushers. He can't settle in the pocket and instead runs up to the line allowing rushers to disengage from their blocks. He makes his line look bad. Mafi has looked good for a rookie, we haven't really seen much of Sow, but Strange and Onwenu are better than you give them credit for. Having 4 good young guys is a boon, not a problem to be rectified.

Every team doesn't have an Uche. He's not great or even a Pro bowler but he's a 10+ sack guy, and most teams would love to have that extra guy in addition to their top guy in Judon. I see you left out Barmore and Dugger as well. Our defensive backfield is top notch, and the D-line has talent. They are still young but if Keion White comes on, they will be formidable. The building blocks are there. Put a mediocre QB and say a Tee Higgins on this team, and it's competing for the division title.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Translate this. What are you talking about?

The vast majority of teams get their QBs through the draft. There are 16 other teams in the NFL who did not succeed in finding a QB with their first rounder in the last several years. Not only the Patriots. Many of these teams moved on and ended up finding someone passable who is a better player than the one they took, others dipped back into the draft.

In retrospect, we shouldn't have taken Mac Jones. But if you didn't take Mac Jones in 2021 at #15, you shouldn't be running a team. It would've been idiotic not to take him. You act like it's easy finding a QB after Brady. We're 2 years and 4 games in at this point; which is about the time you make the decision to cut bait with the guy.

Bill has had other options. Stafford was available via trade. He lowballed. He listened to Fat Matt talk about how Stafford would never win. Jimmy G. has been available via trade. Carr has been available. These are only the very public ones we’re aware of. In addition, there’s always the ability to trade up in the draft.

I realize it’s impossible for you to think your hero god, Bill Belichick, is capable of ****ting the bed, and making any move that isn’t ingenius. But look at what other teams do when they see their HoF QB is departing…they begin developing a high caliber prospect in advance, or they trade for someone.

Let’s remember the Patriots are supposed to be the smartest guys in the room with a 4D understanding of the passing game. I remember how ****y people like you were with the “next man up” mantra.

To retcon all this now…as though they were handcuffed to Mac Jones, had no other choice, did the only thing a team could do, it’s so…you.

It’s all about defending Bill. There is no other universe for you.

 

[Ian]

Bill has had other options. Stafford was available via trade. He lowballed. He listened to Fat Matt talk about how Stafford would never win. Jimmy G. has been available via trade. Carr has been available. These are only the very public ones we’re aware of. In addition, there’s always the ability to trade up in the draft.

I realize it’s impossible for you to think your hero god, Bill Belichick, is capable of ****ting the bed, and making any move that isn’t ingenius. But look at what other teams do when they see their HoF QB is departing…they begin developing a high caliber prospect in advance, or they trade for someone.

Let’s remember the Patriots are supposed to be the smartest guys in the room with a 4D understanding of the passing game. I remember how ****y people like you were with the “next man up” mantra.

To retcon all this now…as though they were handcuffed to Mac Jones, had no other choice, did the only thing a team could do, it’s so…you.

It's been pretty well documented he wanted Jimmy G. Shanahan wanted far too much, so he took Jones. Which at the time was the right move. Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but that was the smart play.

 

[PATS16N0]

We should just go back to the “system” we used before Cam showed up. Remember that? “The system.”

 

[Boomer B]

The OL is saddled with a QB that runs right into their blocks. It's impossible to block for this idiot. He bails right into outside rushers. He can't settle in the pocket and instead runs up to the line allowing rushers to disengage from their blocks. He makes his line look bad. Mafi has looked good for a rookie, we haven't really seen much of Sow, but Strange and Onwenu are better than you give them credit for. Having 4 good young guys is a boon, not a problem to be rectified.

Every team doesn't have an Uche. He's not great or even a Pro bowler but he's a 10+ sack guy, and most teams would love to have that extra guy in addition to their top guy in Judon. I see you left out Barmore and Dugger as well. Our defensive backfield is top notch, and the D-line has talent. They are still young but if Keion White comes on, they will be formidable. The building blocks are there. Put a mediocre QB and say a Tee Higgins on this team, and it's competing for the division title.

The o-line has been straight up garbage this year. No way around it. We are 32nd in the league in Pass Block Win Rate.

2023 NFL pass rush, run stop, blocking win rate rankings

Our win rate metics stack the NFL's best run-blocking, run-stopping, pass-protecting and pass-rushing players and teams.

www.espn.com

 

[Ring 6]

No, you do not. I was at least as well respected in my little world as Bill has been in his. The difference is that I had the wisdom to quit while I still had and deserved the respect of everyone in my field, something Bill obviously lacks the self-awareness, honesty, and honorableness to do. Bill is certainly smart enough to see his failures. He simply lacks the courage and honesty to act on what he sees. In that respect, you are right: Bill and I have little in common.

As I said I understand why you take the position you do.
You set the greatest of all time in your profession? I doubt it.
And it took “honesty and courage” for you to admit you couldn’t get the job done any more, so you feel better about yourself by taking shots at Belechick.

 

[Boomer B]

Ty Law: If you ain’t got the talent it don’t matter

 

[upstater1]

The o-line has been straight up garbage this year. No way around it. We are 32nd in the league in Pass Block Win Rate.

2023 NFL pass rush, run stop, blocking win rate rankings

Our win rate metics stack the NFL's best run-blocking, run-stopping, pass-protecting and pass-rushing players and teams.

www.espn.com

The talent is there, we've had guys come off injuries, we've had 2 concussions. There are no season injuries. If this team had a decent QB, someone who stood in the pocket, there'd be no more focus on them.

 

[Patsgofor4]

This is also assuming Mac isn’t at all responsible for some of those stats. Where Tom steps up into the pocket and delivers a laser, Mac “is pressured” and runs out of the pocket and then does something stupid like throw back across the numbers, multiple times.

Can we stop the revisionist, fantasyland ******** that Brady thrived during the rare games when his OL was overwhelmed by the opposing front 7. He was elite when it came to making the opposition pay for blitzing him but when the opposing front 6 was able to get consistent pressure without blitzing, particular interior pressure, he often looked very mortal. Especially during the latter years of his career, and there was a lot of turtling when faced with free rushers. Behind this porous OL and with this group of WRs, Brady would have no doubt performed better than Mac but they wouldn’t have been putting up 25+ points weekly either.

 

[upstater1]

Bill has had other options. Stafford was available via trade. He lowballed. He listened to Fat Matt talk about how Stafford would never win. Jimmy G. has been available via trade. Carr has been available. These are only the very public ones we’re aware of. In addition, there’s always the ability to trade up in the draft.

I realize it’s impossible for you to think your hero god, Bill Belichick, is capable of ****ting the bed, and making any move that isn’t ingenius. But look at what other teams do when they see their HoF QB is departing…they begin developing a high caliber prospect in advance, or they trade for someone.

Let’s remember the Patriots are supposed to be the smartest guys in the room with a 4D understanding of the passing game. I remember how ****y people like you were with the “next man up” mantra.

To retcon all this now…as though they were handcuffed to Mac Jones, had no other choice, did the only thing a team could do, it’s so…you.

It’s all about defending Bill. There is no other universe for you.

What would trading for Stafford have done? Please. He's old. Might as well have kept Brady. Trading for Stafford would have lost us Gonzalez, and obviously we didn't even have a Goff to give Detroit. Lowballed? You think we were interested in trading for him? We were rebuilding, we didn't have half the team we do now 2 years ago. Look at the roster for heaven's sake. There are 54 players with us that weren't here on the day Stafford was traded.

My god, now I know forever not to taker you seriously because you think we blew it by not trading for Stafford. I thought this was actually some kind of discussion, not complete batturd craziness.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s been 4 years. More than enough time to get average QB play. That’s on Bill. He had years and years to prepare for the succession.

Way more teams take over 4 years from ground zero to have a keeper at QB than dont.

 

[Brick27]

We should just go back to the “system” we used before Cam showed up. Remember that? “The system.”

Yep the system that churned out 6 rings and 9 Super Bowl appearances. The system where, “they could put anyone in that dink and dunk system” and succeed because of great coaching and defense. I must be going deaf and blind, because there haven’t been any fans of other teams or mediots having a single discussion about this very thing.

 

[IcyPatriot]

This thread seriously needs a mulligan.