Waters' Locker Cleaned Out (Update: Reports Nameplate Taken Down)

[TyronePoole]

I don't think anyone is necessarily suggesting that is the only reason why they let him walk, but that kind of attitude would likely certainly come into play when attempting to renegotiate too.

Why are they attempting to renegotiate with him again?

Belichick may/may not have had a deal with him to miss TC. It may simply have been to miss the first week or two.

The point is that when you are building a team sometimes the next hungry, hardworking guy waiting in the wings will do just fine too.

Waters had a good year here, very good; but I don't think Belichick views his absence as irreplacable either.

I don't think BB's recent track record with letting guys go who he apparently thought were replaceable makes him immune to criticism. I'm an In Bill We Trust guy normally, but he left our secondary woefully thin last year and now we are just supposed to trust that the pro-bowler wasn't needed and the borderline disastrous line play in preseason was just a mirage?

The bottom line is that we cannot come to any type of reasonable opinion without likely knowing the full facts, so we're just all speculating anyway on who we see as being at fault.

I agree with this completely. And the Pats could full well be in the right. I said earlier that I doubt this is what actually happened. My only problem is with a certain few who are taking this story at face value AND defending the Pats on it which I find to be laughable.

 

[ATippett56]

Every discussion has context. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

Since the reply was to a query by another poster, your response was neither requested nor warranted.

 

[Ring 6]

Since the reply was to a query by another poster, your response was neither requested nor warranted.

I don't remember asking your permission, yet my post was pertinent.

 

[mgteich]

I get angry about the BS about Waters being a bad influence and example and the coaches not being able to handle this.

What you say is quite true. It is possible that trade options have been and are being explored, and none have been acceptable to the patriots.

It is also quite possible that Water decided that playing another year just isn't worth it for $1.4M unless he is much closer to home, presumably a short jet ride.

In any case, I don't see him playing for the patriots this year. And, whatever we get in trade, if anything, doesn't affect anything but rooting for situations in which that pick would be more worthwhile.

Dude, when you get angry you spew without thought.
How do you know they didn't try to trade him?
How do you know the Cowboys or Texans even wanted him? How do you know we didnt think no Waters is better than Waters on the Texans?

 

[Ring 6]

Umm, did you happen happen to watch the preseason?

Of course I did, what is your point?

 

[TyronePoole]

That is incorrect. We signed him at the end of camp. That doesnt mean we let him skip camp while under contract.

Are you kidding? I didn't say that so why are you shifting the goalposts? The fact is they didn't think he needed TC last year because they gave him almost SIX MILLION DOLLARS and inserted him into the lineup week one even though he missed a TC. They also waited to sign him until after TC because that was what he wanted and they took it. Now we are supposed to believe that skipping TC is inexcusable for a 12 year pro bowl OL when it comes to changing his contract in their favor? Sillyness.

Actually it appears they felt they needed him last year but dont this year.
What exactly do you think the motivation is here?

I don't know. I have to believe this story is not really what happened. As told it would appear that they tried to use his situation to squeeze some money out of him and it predictably blew up in their face.

That aside, as I said, what kind of team banks on a contract that isn't signed? Even if they're morally right that is just idiotic.

Your argument seems to be that they wanted him so badly last year the offered him 5.5mill and told him to stay home, but this year they dont want to pay him 1.4 mil and are treating him like crap.

Your argunment is senseless.

No, you know this is complete nonsense and not what I said at all. It is an indisputable fact that they thought he was worth 5.5m last year without TC. Explain to me why it's vital now please.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Funny how Waters skipped camp last year yet was arguably our best OL, but now this year, its suddenly a big problem?! And you've got a pro bowler under contract for 1.4 mill?!!! Whats the typical pro bowl guard being paid these days/year? About 7-8 mill?! Penny wise and pound foolish, and it has already cost us a couple of super bowls. See 2006 Reche Caldwell for a prime example. TFB's window is closing. What could have been...

The cost of other players is irrelavant, according to Bedard, he agreed to a restructure, Bedard checked with him or his representatives and says thats a fact. I guess he was homesick last year, he has 5 kids and every year it was harder and harder for him to leave his family. They expected him in TC but I guess when the time came he didnt want to leave his family, he probably signed with us for a chance for a super bowl as he probably has enough money.
I think the team still thought he would eventually show up, now if hes asking for more money how can the team fork over more money to a guy who skipped TC. Maybe they work something out if he does want to win a super bowl and comes to that realization, but for now he aint here and they're planning the year without him.

 

[supafly]

Umm, did you happen happen to watch the preseason?

I can understand your point that the offensive line has not looked good in preseason, but we also didn't see much of anything from 2 of our best players in Mankins and Vollmer.

By the same comparison, our WR's are going to be a problem too; not to mention our QB play.

Preseason is just to work out different combinations and see who you want to keep on the roster, besides maybe one week for each team (usually ours in the 3rd game). In a year where we had 3 games in 10 days AND didn't know the status of at least one/two key players on the offensive line, it may not be the greatest thing to go on.

I think it all comes down to what our coach feels is best for the team, and in this instance he doesn't seem to worry too much about the loss of Brian Waters at RG. Just my opinion though.

 

[Ring 6]

I get angry about the BS about Waters being a bad influence and example and the coaches not being able to handle this.

What? Who is saying this?

What you say is quite true. It is possible that trade options have been and are being explored, and none have been acceptable to the patriots.

Or none exist

It is also quite possible that Water decided that playing another year just isn't worth it for $1.4M unless he is much closer to home, presumably a short jet ride.

And quite possible that the Patriots felt that a player whodoesn't want to show up for camp then demand more money isn't the best player for their team.

In any case, I don't see him playing for the patriots this year. And, whatever we get in trade, if anything, doesn't affect anything but rooting for situations in which that pick would be more worthwhile.

Or there isnt a trade market anyway outside of hurting the team by helping the competition. How is it bad to conclude that?

 

[ATippett56]

I don't remember asking your permission, yet my post was pertinent.

I don't need nor want your god damn condescending attitude.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I don't know. I have to believe this story is not really what happened. As told it would appear that they tried to use his situation to squeeze some money out of him and it predictably blew up in their face.

Listening to the Mike Felger show is dangerous to your health. Bedard said that absolutely isnt the case.

 

[supafly]

Why are they attempting to renegotiate with him again?

I honestly don't know the reason, Ty. I think only the 2 parties do, which is likely your point.

I don't think BB's recent track record with letting guys go who he apparently thought were replaceable makes him immune to criticism. I'm an In Bill We Trust guy normally, but he left our secondary woefully thin last year and now we are just supposed to trust that the pro-bowler wasn't needed and the borderline disastrous line play in preseason was just a mirage?

Certainly a fair point, I agree.

 

[TyronePoole]

Listening to the Mike Felger show is dangerous to your health. Bedard said that absolutely isnt the case.

What does this have to do with anything?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

What does this have to do with anything?

He was the one saying they were trying to squeeze him after he agreed to a deal when according to Bedard, Waters is the one not honoring the deal he made. He was also arguing with Tanquay the same point on Comcast Sports even though he was told the facts, I was half joking when I said that because Felger will take a stance and argue til hes blue in the face regardless of actual facts.

 

[Ring 6]

Are you kidding? I didn't say that so why are you shifting the goalposts?

Your original point was we let him sit out camp last year. That is wrong. Goalposts at static.

The fact is they didn't think he needed TC last year because they gave him almost SIX MILLION DOLLARS and inserted him into the lineup week one even though he missed a TC. They also waited to sign him until after TC because that was what he wanted and they took it. Now we are supposed to believe that skipping TC is inexcusable for a 12 year pro bowl OL when it comes to changing his contract in their favor? Sillyness.

Its an entirely different situation. We went out to sign a FA in September vs having a player under contract refuse to participate in training camp, then ask for a raise. It is 180 degrees different.

I don't know. I have to believe this story is not really what happened. As told it would appear that they tried to use his situation to squeeze some money out of him and it predictably blew up in their face.

You really believe the Patriots looked at this as an opportunity to screw someone out of 500k and risk hurting the team? Really?

That aside, as I said, what kind of team banks on a contract that isn't signed? Even if they're morally right that is just idiotic.

No clue what you mean here, waters IS under contract.

No, you know this is complete nonsense and not what I said at all. It is an indisputable fact that they thought he was worth 5.5m last year without TC. Explain to me why it's vital now please.

He did not refuse to show up for training camp last year, he was an unsigned veteran that we pursued in September. This year he refused to show up. Clearly you can see that differnece.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't need nor want your god damn condescending attitude.

Then dont post things that evoke it

 

[Run DMC]

Of course I did, what is your point?

The OL looks hideous. Is this news to you?

 

[TyronePoole]

He was the one saying they were trying to squeeze him after he agreed to a deal when according to Bedard, Waters is the one not honoring the deal he made. He was also arguing with Tanquay the same point on Comcast Sports even though he was told the facts, I was half joking when I said that because Felger will take a stance and argue til hes blue in the face regardless of actual facts.

All of a sudden Bedard has the inside scoop? Either there was an agreement which the Pats didn't sign making them morons, or there wasn't and they are lying. I never said anything about them doing it now, i said that the story as told, which I'm skeptical of, would lead me to think that they made a handshake deal with him in exchange for letting him skip TC. with the idea that because he wanted to do that they had leverage to reduce/restructure his deal.

Another fact that makes me skeptical of this story; BB routinely said his absences were excused when asked so they can't now retroactively fine him if he shows up and wants to get paid.

 

[Run DMC]

The OL looks hideous. Is this news to you?

And yes I'm aware Mankins and Vollmer weren't playing. Yes, those two of the post knee surgery and gimpy back. Not a stable situation, by any means.

 

[ATippett56]

I don't think BB's recent track record with letting guys go who he apparently thought were replaceable makes him immune to criticism. I'm an In Bill We Trust guy normally, but he left our secondary woefully thin last year and now we are just supposed to trust that the pro-bowler wasn't needed and the borderline disastrous line play in preseason was just a mirage?

Between Mankins' knee and McDonald's shoulder, health of the interior of the offensive line has to be questioned in the first game of the season for the New England Patriots versus the Tennessee Titans.