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A Case For A Return To The 2-TE Offense


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BillBelichickFan79

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So far, a lot of the talk this off-season has centered acquiring an outside the numbers/deep threat WR, upgrading the RB position, and/or upgrading the offensive line. I agree those are all priorities for upgrading this offense. But I also think people are overlooking another area that can make this offense more balanced, more diverse, and more prolific -- the TE position.


Flashback to the days when Aaron Hernández was still employed by this team:

Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernández at TE.

Wes Welker/Julian Edelman in the slot.

Deion Branch/Brandon Lloyd on the outside.

Ridley/Green-Ellis between the tackles. Woodhead/Vereen as pass catchers/shotgun runners.


This was by far my favorite Patriots offense -- even more so than the 2007 spread/air raid Randy Moss offense.

In my opinion, this was the Patriots’ best offense as well, for the following reasons:


  • The passing game was extremely diversified - slot WR, TE's, outside WR were all viable options; if you took one thing away, we'd kill you another way - pick your poison. There was not an over-reliance on force-feeding the ball to any specific player
  • The matchup nightmare of the TE's - two guys with extremely versatile skill sets who could line up in-line, in the slot, flexed out wide.
  • Formation disguise - it was nearly impossible for defenses to key run vs pass with our 2 TE formation. If you bring in a heavy front to stop the run, we would check to a pass and exploit the mismatch of Gronk or Hernández on a slow linebacker. If you bring in extra DB's to guard more against the pass, we would check to a run and take advantage of your lighter front. It kept the defense playing against us on their heels and uncomfortable at all times. We were a totally unpredictable offense.
  • Improved running game - with two TE's in the game on most snaps, it gives you an extra blocker or two in the running game to help open more holes/get more push. Whether out of the shotgun with Woodhead or under center with Ridley, we could successfully run the ball on most teams if we wanted to.
  • More effective threat of the play action pass - since the running game was a capable threat, defenses would bite up on the play action as the running game was more respected, enabling Brady to take some shots down the field. Rather than relying on a fast guy on the outside to simply out-run corners/safeties, your deep shots can be manufactured off of play action.
  • Less of a need to spend on an “elite” outside the numbers deep threat WR. Because the outside WR in this offense was featured far less, you could get away with mid-level talent out there like Branch and Lloyd. You didn't have to go out and pay top dollar to try to get a guy like Alston Jeffery or Randy Moss.
  • Improved pass protection - with 2 TE's in on most plays, you can max protect Tom Brady if you run into a pass rush like Denver's where MIler and Ware are teeing off on you. You can keep one guy in to chip (a la help Marcus Cannon) and slip one out into a pass route. Helps the offensive line greatly against some of those elite defensive fronts you will face.
  • More physical team identity on offense. Felt like in those days, the team just played more physically at the point of attack and the running game could take over and dominate at times. We've become more finesse in recent years, operating mostly out of the shotgun with a lot of “empty” sets, and not being able to run as effectively.
  • Ability to stretch the defense vertically down the seam. Rather than the traditional way of stretching the defense vertically outside the numbers with a WR like Moss or Stallworth, Hernandez's speed allowed us to stretch the defense down the seam with mismatches on safeties/linebackers.
  • Improved red zone efficiency and better red zone targets – Two TE’s in the red zone are better than one. Two big bodied targets on passing plays, two extra blockers in the run game, two guys capable of sneaking out on play action on any given play. Impossible to defend.

In my opinion, the loss of Aaron Hernández has been understated by fans and media. We have not been able to play the style of offense described above since his departure because he has never adequately been replaced.


Essentially, what I am proposing is that we go back to an offense based around a heavy dosage of 2 TE sets because it was our most successful, most diversified, most balanced, and least predictable offense.


We have the slot WR covered with Edelman (and Amendola if he sticks around).

We have one great all around TE in Gronkowski.

We have a couple of good pass catching backs in Lewis, White, and Bolden, although this spot could still be upgraded.


Our needs:

A versatile #2 TE/”move” TE capable of solid blocking and able to make plays in the passing game

A tough and dependable outside the numbers WR who can catch three to five balls a game (deep speed is a plus, but not an absolute necessity)

A physical between the tackles runner who can handle between 10 to 25 carries per game

An upgrade to the offensive line – whether it comes from within due to Scar developing some of the younger guys, through the draft, or a veteran free agent addition



I’m sure as all of us delve deeper into the draft stuff, there will be some interesting prospects available to potentially fill in some of these holes. But since we are pre-combine and there’s a long way to go in everyone getting familiar with the draft, here are a few free agents that intrigue me:

TE:

Dwayne Allen – frustrated by his gross under-utilization by the Colts, entering his prime, and is hitting the market with some injury concerns so he could potentially be a bargain. He’s an all-around TE in the Jason Witten mold – not the biggest/strongest/fast but good hands, good blocker, and just makes play in the passing game. I loved this guy’s game when he was at Clemson because he literally lined up all over the field – out wide, in line, slot, in the backfield – and was a reliable playmaker. I think he could become one of the better TE’s in the league in our offense, and have read that there’s virtually no chance he returns to Indy.

Ladarius Green – don’t know if the Chargers will let him get away due to Gates’ age, but this guy qualifies as that difference making pass catching TE like Hernandez was. Phenomenal speed and athleticism to create mismatches. Blocking may be more of an issue

Jordan Cameron - another good call as a potential target by @AzorianPats - would seem to be a guy that fits the Hernandez role well. Great pass catching tight end who can hopefully chip in just enough in the blocking game a la Hernandez. Coming off a down year with a history of concussion problems, may be able to be had for a bargain.

Martellus Bennett - potential cut in Chicago suggested by @Gronkowski123 - pretty dynamic in the passing game and a good blocker as well. Complained about his contract in Chicago, so may be looking to go to the highest bidder.


WR:

Percy Harvin – lightning in a bottle when he’s healthy, may be looking for a one year deal to rehab his value on a good team, have always felt he’s a perfect fit in this offense. You can play him outside with that electric speed or move him into the slot in the case of an injury to Edelman. He can get vertical but also operate those short and intermediate routes, and also lineup in the backfield if you need him to. With the focal point of the offense being the TE’s and slot WR, you can take a little more risk here with Harvin in my opinion. Despite his injury history, he is tough as nails and fearless on the field. Could also help on kick returns.

Anquan Boldin – tough warrior on the outside who will win battles with physicality and will power, knows he is a role player at this point of his career, brings the type of physical attitude you want. Only question is how much does he have left in the tank at his age

Mike Wallace (assuming he’s released) – may not exactly fit the “toughness” criteria but is one of those vertical downfield threats who can catch three to five balls a game for explosive plays. Attitude/character will be the main issue here – is he okay with being more of a role player or does he still think he’s a #1 guy that will pout and quit when not getting his desired touches


OL:

Swing tackle – don’t have any names for this at the moment, but assuming Solder and Vollmer are back and healthy, this can be addressed in the draft with an eye towards grooming Vollmer’s eventual successor

Guard/Center – I’d love to get my hands on a top flight center like Alex Mack but that is likely way out of our price range. I’d settle for a veteran addition at guard such as Jahri Evans in hopes of getting him on a Brian Waters deal or maybe a guy like Stefen Wisniewski


RB:

Ton of names being thrown around on the board, I’m open to most possibilities. I think there is definitely a need for a younger and more talented between the tackles runner. I’ve suggested a guy like Christine Michael or trying to find a Michael Turner leaving SD for ATL type of value or addressing it in the draft. Find an undervalued young talent and give him a chance here. I prefer to go younger in FA or the draft than try to siphon some last droplets of production out of a guy like Forte or other veteran backs who are closer to the end than their prime. Pass catching back can be upgraded as well, but I wouldn’t be unhappy with bringing back a combo Lewis/White/Bolden
 
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I like your post but fans have not understated the loss of AH. There was a lot of excitement with the signing of Chandler but unfortunately he did not even come close to living up to those expectations.
 
So far, a lot of the talk this off-season has centered acquiring an outside the numbers/deep threat WR, upgrading the RB position, and/or upgrading the offensive line. I agree those are all priorities for upgrading this offense. But I also think people are overlooking another area that can make this offense more balanced, more diverse, and more prolific -- the TE position.



Swing Tackle: Kelvin Beachum. In fact could beat out the declining Volmer (injuries). Beachum is only 26. Got an early 2015 ACL. Might have been one of the Steelers best OL.

Guard: Agree with you on Jahri Evans and also your "in hopes of getting him on a Brian Waters deal or maybe a guy like Stefen Wisniewski"

WR: Sanu. Size and versatility. Put James White at WR. Bigger than you think.

TE: Coby Fleener. Now go back to the AH two TE set. Speed and size. Over 50 catches last three years.

RB: Forte. Just a great signing. Expect 100 catches out of the backfield if healthy.

LB: Zach Brown. Can be a force when healthy 4.54 speed. Still young.ILB or OLB.Major upgrade over Freeney and the declining Mayo.

DT: Resign Hicks

SS: Make Chung your starting OLB (see Rams Baron, Cards Buchannon both SS converted to OLB) . Pick up Eric Weddle. Typical BB signing. Picked up Rodney when they were set at SS. McCourty and Weddle would be great in the back end. Too many mistakes by Harmon. He's an OK back up.

Now the wild card. This is a maybe. Can't afford all of the "big three". Trade Chandler Jones for some picks. Sign Mario Williams who has been in the wrong defense at Buffalo. 15 sacks before Rex's new Defense. Says he will have a chip on his shoulder.He is 31. Chandler 26. Was Chandler"s PCP "dust up" deal a one time stupid? Williams is 30 Lbs heavier. How many times has Jones been lost in the wash on a run? The way we play D MW sets the edge better.
DW Toys
 
Nice analysis and theory. Who will be the new "move" TE? Chandler was not they guy and we tried the youngster from Tampa. (Tim Wright)

Unfortunately the 2 TE offense you have described may be easier to say than to do.
 
Nice analysis and theory. Who will be the new "move" TE? Chandler was not they guy and we tried the youngster from Tampa. (Tim Wright)

Unfortunately the 2 TE offense you have described may be easier to say than to do.

Yes, without a doubt. The number one question that we have to ask ourselves is "why" we don't use that formation more, and the easy answer would be lack of adequate personnel.

Wright couldn't block for anything, and Chandler couldn't really do anything all that well. Those types of players aren't going to allow us the opportunity to take advantage of mismatches, nor is the lack of a running game.
 
I like your post but fans have not understated the loss of AH. There was a lot of excitement with the signing of Chandler but unfortunately he did not even come close to living up to those expectations.

I agree the fans and football diehards on here haven't understated it, but sometimes when having convos with a general everyday fan in public, they say things like "well Gronk was the better TE anyway we didn't need Hernandez that badly, we got a guy like Amendola as the third option now who is basically just as good." I cringe when i hear things like that.

I also don't hear the media mention it as much anymore either when discussing our offensive failures in a loss. Maybe it's because a few years have passed, but when i watched us in Denver, i couldn't help but think of how much different things would have been if we had another quality TE out there to make us less predictable, help us better establish the run, help us chip on Von Miller when Cannon is struggling, etc.

I've listened to a lot of TV and radio coverage and analysis after the loss and hadn't really heard anyone bring it up, so that's why i made this thread. Most of The talk i heard was mostly about RB, outside the numbers WR, offensive line depth, and i felt like TE was getting glossed over.

Nice analysis and theory. Who will be the new "move" TE? Chandler was not they guy and we tried the youngster from Tampa. (Tim Wright)

Unfortunately the 2 TE offense you have described may be easier to say than to do.
Yes, without a doubt. The number one question that we have to ask ourselves is "why" we don't use that formation more, and the easy answer would be lack of adequate personnel.

Wright couldn't block for anything, and Chandler couldn't really do anything all that well. Those types of players aren't going to allow us the opportunity to take advantage of mismatches, nor is the lack of a running game.

Yes, the problem has definitely been the lack of personnel.

My contention is that replacing Hernandez to ensure we can run that two TE type of offense hasn't been prioritized enough.

We haven't really devoted the capital to addressing the issue IMO. Guys like Scott Chandler and Hoo-man are clearly not the answer - backups who can come in and help block. And Tim Wright was an undrafted free agent from Rutgers who was a throw-in piece in that Mankins trade. Highly unlikely to be a difference maker.

I'd like to see Bill devote some draft capital to the issue, like he did with drafting Gronk in the 2nd and Hernandez in the 4th, or chase a more legitimate target than Scott Chandler in free agency.

That's why I've advocated for a guy like Dwayne Allen who is a very nice looking all-around TE entering his prime that was grossly under-used in Indy and could possibly had for a bargain. Or a guy like Virgil Green who is more of a fast, big play, pass catching tight end that could make the passing game more explosive.

Not sure who's a good option in the draft yet, but I'm on board with using a third or fourth round pick on a guy to address the issue. I'm sure as the draft gets closer, there will be a consensus on this forum of a few TE's that could come in and have a Hernandez-like impact who may be undervalued by other teams.
 
Hernandez was a rare, special talent.

It wasnt just that he was a pass catching TE, but the way the guy glided and made defenders miss, it was Julian Edelman like in a 240lbs body.

The player that most resembles him the most right now is Jordan Reed from the Redskins.

With that, the reason we dont go 2 TE more often is because we really dont have the pieces to. Sucks, because I agree that those 2 TE sets were my fav offense to watch.
 
My favorite Patriot offense is the one that wins Super Bowls that can vary its attack based on its opponents weaknesses....2WR providing an intermediate threat, running the ball, 2TE , 2 slot receivers. 3rd down RB.

Why lock yourself into a specific personnel grouping ?
 
As time goes on we will find out that Chandler was hurt more significantly than we know, and that effected his production.. they might have ir'ed, however there was no one to replace him. Either that or he missed Buffalo.. he sucked, but may have sucked because he was impaired.

Sometimes when I hear a "deep threat WR", a receiver who can "stretch the field" or a receiver who can take the "top off a defense" all sound like cliche's, the reality for this offense is a bunch of complimentary receivers who can do lots of different things and confuse the defense, the problem last year was the O line and injuries which impeded this offense..

One thing folks sometimes forget is that not every WR can play in this system, we have had a bunch of guys come through who cannot grasp the timing and subtleties of this offense.. a lot of assumptions are made that any one of these guys can just fit in..

Personally I really like the Offense we were able to run during the run up to SB 49.. would like to see that personnel group completely healthy, as they would have been unstoppable..
 
I wonder how long Stork's head bobs were keying the defenses or if there were any other OL guys giving off keys. There were so many guys rotating in and out of the O line because of the injuries that they may have been tipping off the Defenses. Did that and the numerous injuries the team endured have an effect on Chandler's production?

Chandler may have a better season this year with Scar back in control of the OL. We'll see but he definitely played below the production level he had while with the Bills. Targets and Catch % were both well below his previous two years in Buffalo. I had thought when he was signed that he would possibly have a career type year while benefiting from having Gronk on the other side of the line.

upload_2016-2-13_8-39-15.png

Compared to Gronkowski.

upload_2016-2-13_8-43-4.png


Reference: Rob Gronkowski NFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com (<Link)
 
The heavy use of 12 personell is over. People just don't understand how unique of a tight end he was, he simply cannot be replaced. No offense to the OP, this was obviously a well thought out thread.
 
Of course we want it. It's just hard to get two good TEs.

Chandler is the Ochocinco of tight ends.
 
So far, a lot of the talk this off-season has centered acquiring an outside the numbers/deep threat WR, upgrading the RB position, and/or upgrading the offensive line. I agree those are all priorities for upgrading this offense. But I also think people are overlooking another area that can make this offense more balanced, more diverse, and more prolific -- the TE position.


Flashback to the days when Aaron Hernández was still employed by this team:

Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernández at TE.

Wes Welker/Julian Edelman in the slot.

Deion Branch/Brandon Lloyd on the outside.

Ridley/Green-Ellis between the tackles. Woodhead/Vereen as pass catchers/shotgun runners.


This was by far my favorite Patriots offense -- even more so than the 2007 spread/air raid Randy Moss offense.

In my opinion, this was the Patriots’ best offense as well, for the following reasons:


  • The passing game was extremely diversified - slot WR, TE's, outside WR were all viable options; if you took one thing away, we'd kill you another way - pick your poison. There was not an over-reliance on force-feeding the ball to any specific player
  • The matchup nightmare of the TE's - two guys with extremely versatile skill sets who could line up in-line, in the slot, flexed out wide.
  • Formation disguise - it was nearly impossible for defenses to key run vs pass with our 2 TE formation. If you bring in a heavy front to stop the run, we would check to a pass and exploit the mismatch of Gronk or Hernández on a slow linebacker. If you bring in extra DB's to guard more against the pass, we would check to a run and take advantage of your lighter front. It kept the defense playing against us on their heels and uncomfortable at all times. We were a totally unpredictable offense.
  • Improved running game - with two TE's in the game on most snaps, it gives you an extra blocker or two in the running game to help open more holes/get more push. Whether out of the shotgun with Woodhead or under center with Ridley, we could successfully run the ball on most teams if we wanted to.
  • More effective threat of the play action pass - since the running game was a capable threat, defenses would bite up on the play action as the running game was more respected, enabling Brady to take some shots down the field. Rather than relying on a fast guy on the outside to simply out-run corners/safeties, your deep shots can be manufactured off of play action.
  • Less of a need to spend on an “elite” outside the numbers deep threat WR. Because the outside WR in this offense was featured far less, you could get away with mid-level talent out there like Branch and Lloyd. You didn't have to go out and pay top dollar to try to get a guy like Alston Jeffery or Randy Moss.
  • Improved pass protection - with 2 TE's in on most plays, you can max protect Tom Brady if you run into a pass rush like Denver's where MIler and Ware are teeing off on you. You can keep one guy in to chip (a la help Marcus Cannon) and slip one out into a pass route. Helps the offensive line greatly against some of those elite defensive fronts you will face.
  • More physical team identity on offense. Felt like in those days, the team just played more physically at the point of attack and the running game could take over and dominate at times. We've become more finesse in recent years, operating mostly out of the shotgun with a lot of “empty” sets, and not being able to run as effectively.
  • Ability to stretch the defense vertically down the seam. Rather than the traditional way of stretching the defense vertically outside the numbers with a WR like Moss or Stallworth, Hernandez's speed allowed us to stretch the defense down the seam with mismatches on safeties/linebackers.
  • Improved red zone efficiency and better red zone targets – Two TE’s in the red zone are better than one. Two big bodied targets on passing plays, two extra blockers in the run game, two guys capable of sneaking out on play action on any given play. Impossible to defend.

In my opinion, the loss of Aaron Hernández has been understated by fans and media. We have not been able to play the style of offense described above since his departure because he has never adequately been replaced.


Essentially, what I am proposing is that we go back to an offense based around a heavy dosage of 2 TE sets because it was our most successful, most diversified, most balanced, and least predictable offense.


We have the slot WR covered with Edelman (and Amendola if he sticks around).

We have one great all around TE in Gronkowski.

We have a couple of good pass catching backs in Lewis, White, and Bolden, although this spot could still be upgraded.


Our needs:

A versatile #2 TE/”move” TE capable of solid blocking and able to make plays in the passing game

A tough and dependable outside the numbers WR who can catch three to five balls a game (deep speed is a plus, but not an absolute necessity)

A physical between the tackles runner who can handle between 10 to 25 carries per game

An upgrade to the offensive line – whether it comes from within due to Scar developing some of the younger guys, through the draft, or a veteran free agent addition



I’m sure as all of us delve deeper into the draft stuff, there will be some interesting prospects available to potentially fill in some of these holes. But since we are pre-combine and there’s a long way to go in everyone getting familiar with the draft, here are a few free agents that intrigue me:

TE:

Dwayne Allen – frustrated by his gross under-utilization by the Colts, entering his prime, and is hitting the market with some injury concerns so he could potentially be a bargain. He’s an all-around TE in the Jason Witten mold – not the biggest/strongest/fast but good hands, good blocker, and just makes play in the passing game. I loved this guy’s game when he was at Clemson because he literally lined up all over the field – out wide, in line, slot, in the backfield – and was a reliable playmaker. I think he could become one of the better TE’s in the league in our offense, and have read that there’s virtually no chance he returns to Indy.

Ladarius Green – don’t know if the Chargers will let him get away due to Gates’ age, but this guy qualifies as that difference making pass catching TE like Hernandez was. Phenomenal speed and athleticism to create mismatches. Blocking may be more of an issue

Excellent Thread!!
beer.gif


For as long as I've been here, I've been pimping the "Double Tight End" Offense. Mind you...

If I had my druthers, I'd go with my patented Double WingBack Attack. :D

But "Double Tight End", as you describe it, works for me.
thumb.gif


It's important, though, I believe, to distinguish between types of Tight Ends ~ so important that I've broken them down into subsets over the last few Years, to distinguish Skill Sets:

Tight Ends ~ 6.5/260 or so. Gronkowski is the ProtoType.
Flex Ends ~ 6.3/245 or so. Hernandez is the ProtoType.
WingBacks ~ 6.0/245 or so. Marcel Reece is the ProtoType.

Dwayne Allen is shorter than the ProtoType, but at 6.3/265 Pounds is a classic Tight End who strikes me as an impressive Blocker and indeed as an adept Receiver ~ for a Tight End.

Scott Chandler, at 6.7/260, is also what I characterize as a classic Tight End, with a Frame much like Jimmy Graham's, albeit spared the additional burden of Talent.

Timothy Wright, at 6.4/220, is a Split End ~ Randy Moss being the ProtoType ~ despite the obnoxious persistence of everyone calling'm a Tight End because the Bucs used him that way out'f desperation.

Ladarius Green is rather tall for my ProtoType, but at 6.6/240 is definitely a Flex End. His Production jumped in his 4th Year, he's always had sensational Straight Line Speed, and I believe that if the Lightning Bolts can't tie'm up, there's going to be a flat out Feeding Frenzy for this kid.

I can't say that I covet the guy, though: His Blocking sucks, and he's never struck me as much of a Route Runner. I believe that if he hits Free Agency, somebody's gonna go ApeShit over his combination of Straight Line Speed and Towering Height and throw 5 or 6 Million a Year at'm.

Hell, though...

At 6056 and a 4.56 40, maybe Run Like Hell and I'll Throw You The Ball is good enough!!
jester.gif


Of course we wouldn't even have this issue of replacing The Convict if we'd drafted TE Travis Kelce and XE Jordan Reed in 2013 as your devoted Servant suggested!! :D
 
Excellent Thread!!
beer.gif


For as long as I've been here, I've been pimping the "Double Tight End" Offense. Mind you...

If I had my druthers, I'd go with my patented Double WingBack Attack. :D

But "Double Tight End", as you describe it, works for me.
thumb.gif


It's important, though, I believe, to distinguish between types of Tight Ends ~ so important that I've broken them down into subsets over the last few Years, to distinguish Skill Sets:

Tight Ends ~ 6.5/260 or so. Gronkowski is the ProtoType.
Flex Ends ~ 6.3/245 or so. Hernandez is the ProtoType.
WingBacks ~ 6.0/245 or so. Marcel Reece is the ProtoType.

Dwayne Allen is shorter than the ProtoType, but at 6.3/265 Pounds is a classic Tight End who strikes me as an impressive Blocker and indeed as an adept Receiver ~ for a Tight End.

Scott Chandler, at 6.7/260, is also what I characterize as a classic Tight End, with a Frame much like Jimmy Graham's, albeit spared the additional burden of Talent.

Timothy Wright, at 6.4/220, is a Split End ~ Randy Moss being the ProtoType ~ despite the obnoxious persistence of everyone calling'm a Tight End because the Bucs used him that way out'f desperation.

Ladarius Green is rather tall for my ProtoType, but at 6.6/240 is definitely a Flex End. His Production jumped in his 4th Year, he's always had sensational Straight Line Speed, and I believe that if the Lightning Bolts can't tie'm up, there's going to be a flat out Feeding Frenzy for this kid.

I can't say that I covet the guy, though: His Blocking sucks, and he's never struck me as much of a Route Runner. I believe that if he hits Free Agency, somebody's gonna go ApeShit over his combination of Straight Line Speed and Towering Height and throw 5 or 6 Million a Year at'm.

Hell, though...

At 6056 and a 4.56 40, maybe Run Like Hell and I'll Throw You The Ball is good enough!!
jester.gif


Of course we wouldn't even have this issue of replacing The Convict if we'd drafted TE Travis Kelce and XE Jordan Reed in 2013 as your devoted Servant suggested!! :D

Excellent insight as always, Grid. Those were two fantastic calls by you with Reed and Kelce. Two of the best tight ends in the league at the moment. I can only dream of how much I'd love this offense if we had one of those guys right now.

I agree on Green lacking in the blocking department and being raw as a route runner, yet I'm always blown away by his physical tools. But you make a good point that some team may throw crazy money as him based on those raw tools.

Dwayne Allen strikes me as a nice fit here. He's a good blocker and solid pass catching option with versatility who may be able to be had on a very team friendly deal. I see him being under valued on the open market due to some of his injury history and his lack of use in Indy. But I've always felt he could be a top 10 TE in this league.

Do you have any guys in mind that fit the flex TE mold like Hernandez did? Free agency, draft, trade? Those guys are so difficult to match up with, I would love to add one to this offense and bring it back to the Gronk-Hernandez days.
 
Count me as one who's against reverting back to this offense. It always let us down in big games when we needed the big plays. I'd rather stick with what we had in 2014. Just get someone to replace Lafells production and I'm good to go.
 
what if the seahawks release jimmy graham??? any chance bill tries to sign him despite the major injury he suffered..just ease him back until midseason.
 
Hernandez was a first round talent that we only got in the 4th round because of now obvious extenuating circumstances. We will not get a player like him in the mid rounds again.

I agree that Hernandez was a higher rated talent who fell because teams had concerns, but I disagree that you can't get a talent like that in the mid rounds. Seems like every year there's a couple of guys who slip through to the mid rounds.

Two of the guys Grid talked about were third round picks - Jordan Reed and Travis Kelce. These guys played like two of the best tight ends in the league this year, right up there with Gronk.

Guys like Charles Clay and Delanie Walker were sixth round picks.

Zach Ertz was a second round pick.

Ladarius Green, Jordan Cameron, and Julius Thomas were all fourth round picks.

That's a ton of talent going in those middle rounds. It seems to be the sweet spot for a lot of these teams to draft these impact tight ends.

Not sure as to why this is the case, but I guess the feeling may be that some of these guys are raw coming out of school and may take time to transition, so they slide down the board with the more immediate contributors going earlier in the draft.
 
Excellent insight as always, Grid. Those were two fantastic calls by you with Reed and Kelce. Two of the best tight ends in the league at the moment. I can only dream of how much I'd love this offense if we had one of those guys right now.

I agree on Green lacking in the blocking department and being raw as a route runner, yet I'm always blown away by his physical tools. But you make a good point that some team may throw crazy money as him based on those raw tools.

Dwayne Allen strikes me as a nice fit here. He's a good blocker and solid pass catching option with versatility who may be able to be had on a very team friendly deal. I see him being under valued on the open market due to some of his injury history and his lack of use in Indy. But I've always felt he could be a top 10 TE in this league.

Do you have any guys in mind that fit the flex TE mold like Hernandez did? Free agency, draft, trade? Those guys are so difficult to match up with, I would love to add one to this offense and bring it back to the Gronk-Hernandez days.

We MIGHT have a guy in AJ Derby, but we dont know. He can be cut tomorrow for all we know.

A guy that ive always liked, and might be a cap casualty is Jordan Cameron, but he has is fair share of concussions. I could see him thriving with Brady in this offense though.

In the draft, Tyler Higbee from Western Kentucky is a guy I like a lot..
 
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