PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Training Camp Day 7

[luuked]

We don't have the benefit of preseason which always offered hints on what Bill was doing. And of course no one on this board knows for sure. But we've been here before. Recently.

I am happy we don't have a preseason because in reality it rarely gave us any hints at all and people kept misreading performances that irrelevant 3rd stringers had when they faced the 3rd stringers of other teams. From the point of view this camp has been extremely relaxing because we didn't get any of those silly and pointless threads. You can be sure we'd have an idiotic thread about keeping Ross already otherwise.

In fact this season we might have an even clearer picture because if you read about the coaching staff taking Edelman, Sanu, Harry and White to the side during practice and doing extra work with the QBs then you can kinda guess what that means without all the noise of preseason games.

 

[captain stone]

Jennings is definitely not Hightower's successor. Jennings is Winovichs successor as Winovich succeeds Van Noy. Hightower will be replaced by a combination of Bentley, Uche and Copeland who will also combine to fill Collins reps.
The “Hightower” role won’t exist this year because it was his role based upon his skills. They would never ask another player to do everything Hightower does.

?

Jennings could pass for HT's younger twin brother, but he cannot duplicate what Wino brings to the defense; he isn't nearly that fast or explosive.

And regarding Bentley & Copeland being part of an HT-replacing combo: those two slow, useless, UDFA-talent (and in the case of Copeland, steroid-cheating) stiffs, individually or together, are not worthy to even unfasten the laces on his cleats.

 

[captain stone]

Sanu will likey be on the roster. I am not a fan of his game, but he can be a relatively reliable guy who can also return punts.....I'd rather see Meyers and one of the speed guys.

Sanu...return punts...Please no more of that...We'll have others for that job fortunately.

 

[luuked]

Agreed its not about price tag. Still, his contract, production & coming back from offseason surgery don't make him a lock. Then there is TC competition. Then there is new offense fit. Then there are possible market opportunities & needs elsewhere. Even if he makes the 53 its no lock he will be playing winter football in NE..

To me there are only 3 ways Sanu is not on the roster. The most obvious is an injury. The next likely one is if some team for whatever reason would offer them a 3rd/4th round pick. Or if he refuses whatever contract adjustment which will come his way around the end of camp and calls BB's bluff. What makes the last one unlikely is that Sanu will have a good idea about where he ranks among the other WRs so accepting or refusing that offer will be an informed decision.

If he makes the 53 his salary will be guaranteed so you clearly must be thinking mid season trade in your last sentence.

People get too hung up on his salary for no sensible reason. Go and check which vet players make 5-7m.

 

[long distance]

I think it's almost completely about the price tag.

If Sanu was here on a veteran minimum he would be a lock.

Yeah, BB never moved on from a player on a vet min before..

 

[luuked]

I am aware that he was on their radar, speaking to them finally agreeing on the price tag. A 2nd was rich and I dont think they'd cough it up if it wasn't for the scenario I described. Maybe knee jerk wasn't the right word...they were cornered sorta. Wanted the player ..needed a receiver who could contribute asap and given their situation Atlanta capitalized.

I agree it was a perfect storm for Atlanta. They knew the Pats wanted that player for some time, he was on a very favorable contract and the Falcons had no reason to accept peanuts while our offense was stalling.

That's why I don't consider this an over payment but simply the cost of doing business and getting a player they were scouting for a while. How it worked out with him getting injured in his third game should have zero bearing on evaluating the decision at that time.

 

[Family]

I am happy we don't have a preseason because in reality it rarely gave us any hints at all and people kept misreading performances that irrelevant 3rd stringers had when they faced the 3rd stringers of other teams.

If you watched the preseason games with an eye towards evaluating performances of 3rd stringers VS 3rd stringers, then I agree.

It is about preseason game usage. Examples: Stidham/Pennel last year. M. Butler playing with the starters his first season. There are many more over the years.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Seems some "fans" are just hoping and wishing for Harry to be a bust.

Some care more about being right than the success of the team

 

[luuked]

It is about preseason game usage. Examples: Stidham/Pennel last year. M. Butler playing with the starters his first season. There are many more over the years.

This is all info you would have gotten from rep counts during camp practices as well.

The one exception to all of this is ST. That is the one area where preseason games are excellent tools that can't be as easily duplicated in practice sessions. But for everything else I think normal camp practices during joint sessions with another team are far more efficient and useful.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, I gave a timeline of actual events that occurred in the real world. Nothing I stated was opinion.

Nothing you said was a fact, it was 100% opinion. I’m thinking you don’t understand the difference between a fact and an opinion.

 

[long distance]

To me there are only 3 ways Sanu is not on the roster. The most obvious is an injury. The next likely one is if some team for whatever reason would offer them a 3rd/4th round pick. Or if he refuses whatever contract adjustment which will come his way around the end of camp and calls BB's bluff. What makes the last one unlikely is that Sanu will have a good idea about where he ranks among the other WRs so accepting or refusing it will be an informed decision.

If he makes the 53 his salary will be guaranteed so you clearly must be thinking mid season trade in your last sentence.

People get too hung up on his salary for no sensible reason. Go and check which vet players make 5-7m.

Not that i care too much but to me the #1 way for Sanu to not make the roster is competition. If he is outperformed by others or competition is close, if they feel they dont need him or they need other people more they will move on. The point of guaranteed salary you are making will play a part of course..

btw - i have a feeling BB is not so hung up on WR position as this board is

 

[Ring 6]

The Chiefs completely rebuilt their defense in a year's time, new coach, new players. Also they continued to add players like Mike Pennel and Morris Claiborne in-season, they got better as the season went on, stayed healthy.

Pennel nailed Jimmy G as he threw it on that final INT, he helped solidify the Chiefs rush defense from October on. TEAM game. You strike me as the type that likes to make declarative statements that aren't backed up by facts or stats.

What statement do you disagree with? Pennel was a backup who played a small amount of snaps in kc and played himself off the patriots in camp. Guy Shelton and Butler were better options. Please dispute any of those with facts rather than stories.

 

[Family]

This is all info you would have gotten from rep counts during camp practices as well.

You wouldn't have received this information from practice reps at QB last year as one example.

It was how Stidham was used (not how he played) during preseason that told what BB was considering.

 

[luuked]

Not that i care too much but to me the #1 way for Sanu to not make the roster is competition. If he is outperformed by others or competition is close, if they feel they dont need him or they need other people more they will move on. The point of guaranteed salary you are making will play a part of course..

btw - i have a feeling BB is not so hung up on WR position as this board is

Yes and given that is part of the group that does extra work with QBs together with Edelman, White and Harry it kinda implies that he is ahead of others when it comes to competition.

Could this change in the next 10 days ? Certainly possible even if unlikely. It would require Meyers to suddenly step it up substantially while Sanu regresses. I am just sticking with the most likely scenario.

 

[PScottman]

like Bennett, that they weren't getting along with the position coaches.

Another aspect of the overall building of a team that warrants consideration - that it's not simply just athletic talent that produces results.

You can have the most gifted athlete genetics ever produced, but if he doesn't mesh with the coaching staff and cant use those gifts as part of an overall team defense...doesn't that end up being a detriment?

Adalius Thomas is a likely example - on pure talent alone he was probably one of the best LBs the Pats ever signed, but he simply wasn't a fit for a myriad of other reasons unrelated to pure athletic talent.

 

[luuked]

You wouldn't have received this information from practice reps at QB last year as one example.

It was how Stidham was used (not how he played) during preseason that told what BB was considering.

The only reason this would have been difficult to spot is because Brady would have taken about 60-70% of snaps.

I also don't see how anything Stidham did in the preseason games said anything about BBs considerations. The team wanted to sign Hoyer back after W1 but by then the Colts had offered him a big payday and there was no way the Pats would compete with that.

I think you are running into your own confirmation bias with this.

 

[long distance]

Yes and given that is part of the group that does extra work with QBs together with Edelman, White and Harry it kinda implies that he is ahead of others when it comes to competition.

Or it might be the overthinking

Sure, he is a part of last years core rec. group and is treated that way. But I dont read too much into these things anymore because come 53 time it proves every year it meant little. Nobody knows what duties other WRs are having at certain points in practice etc etc..

When media is off - there is when true 53 competition starts. Presuming it will be Cams team a lot will depend on who better fits/clicks w new offence.. and this will be played completely behind close doors this year unfortunately..

 

[Family]

The only reason this would have been difficult to spot is because Brady would have taken about 60-70% of snaps.

I also don't see how anything Stidham did in the preseason games said anything about BBs considerations. The team wanted to sign Hoyer back after W1 but by then the Colts had offered him a big payday and there was no way the Pats would compete with that.

I think you are running into your own confirmation bias with this.

It wasn't about how Stidham DID in the preseason. It was how he was USED.

Yes the team wanted Hoyer back. I believe they want Sanu as well. But I doubt for 6.5.

This is literally the same discussion about some veteran player nearly every season. It has seemed there is almost always a surprise veteran salary cut, if a high price veteran doesn't renegotiate. This one seems one of the more obvious ones.

 

[Ring 6]

?

Jennings could pass for HT's younger twin brother, but he cannot duplicate what Wino brings to the defense; he isn't nearly that fast or explosive.

And regarding Bentley & Copeland being part of an HT-replacing combo: those two slow, useless, UDFA-talent (and in the case of Copeland, steroid-cheating) stiffs, individually or together, are not worthy to even unfasten the laces on his cleats.

I don’t think Jennings should be considered anywhere near Hightower.
Hightower plays multiple roles, hell everyone in our defense plays multiple roles. His duties will be split because there just aren’t other players that can do what hightower can. Bentley will fill some inside backer duties, Copeland is versatile and uche figures to get most of the time in the quasi-HT role.
Jennings will be more of a Simon/winovich strictly edge player this year, they way it looks to me.

 

[Ring 6]

It wasn't about how Stidham DID in the preseason. It was how he was USED.

Yes the team wanted Hoyer back. I believe they want Sanu as well. But I doubt for 6.5.

This is literally the same discussion about some veteran player nearly every season. It has seemed there is almost always a surprise veteran salary cut, if a high price veteran doesn't renegotiate. This one seems one of the more obvious ones.

Do you have examples of these guys that get cut every year who would make the team but don’t because of their contract? Lawyer Milloy. Who else?