Thoughts on our QB's

[LJRomanoff]

What everyone in this thread seems to be ignoring is that cutting Hoyer puts nearly $2 million in dead money on the salary cap. I don't think the Patriots are going to be willing to do that in addition to relying on a rookie and a pseudorookie as backups.

 

[patman52]

I think Hoyer gets cut. Stidham was my favorite pick for the team all year. I think he shows this summer what Jimmy showed. I don't get the scout team platitudes. I think Etling can run 20 plays that the next weeks opponent has shown in previous games. I think Brady staying away from OTAs will actually allow Stidham to develop more.

I think the team is 56-57 players deep, going with 2 qbs will allow a position player to be kept.

At the latest Hoyer may be cut when Thomas comes off PUP

 

[mgteich]

What everyone in this thread seems to be ignoring is that cutting Hoyer puts nearly $2 million in dead money on the salary cap. I don't think the Patriots are going to be willing to do that in addition to relying on a rookie and a pseudorookie as backups.

The dead money is irrelevant. It is simply $1.7M of guaranteed money (actually $1.5M guaranteed plus workout money). Think of this as a signing bonus for his last 2 years of play (he didn't have a signing bonus).

Hoyer may very well stay. But that has to do with Stidham's play, not Hoyer's contract.

 

[moosekill]

I agree Hoyer’s money has nothing to do with it.

I do not think Stidham will be cut and I think, worst case, Etling makes the practice squad. I would bet on three qb’s and while I like Hoyer, I hope they cut him.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I think Hoyer gets cut. Stidham was my favorite pick for the team all year. I think he shows this summer what Jimmy showed. I don't get the scout team platitudes. I think Etling can run 20 plays that the next weeks opponent has shown in previous games. I think Brady staying away from OTAs will actually allow Stidham to develop more.

I think the team is 56-57 players deep, going with 2 qbs will allow a position player to be kept.

At the latest Hoyer may be cut when Thomas comes off PUP

Could not agree more. If Stidham shows anything in camp, hoyer is a gonner. We have too much talent at other positions and keeping 3 qb’s is inefficient. There are not enough snaps in practice every week to keep 3 qb’s.

 

[luuked]

Thanks. Is it possible to stuff him in the 53 initially and then after the PS is established, drop him into the PS from the 53? Or does he still need to go through waivers in that scenario?

As others have said by now. He would still need to go through waivers but doing so a few days after cutdowns is how teams usually are more successful smuggling players onto the PS.

But with so many Patriots connected teams nowadays (Lions, Dolphins, Texans, Titans...) I would not hold my breath that BB/Caserio can hide anyone anymore. Just recall how they tried to hide Bojorquez last year by now even let him punt during the preseason games.

And, yet, the Bills claimed him and his cannon leg. I would not expect anything less for a QB drafted in the fourth.

 

[luuked]

We have too much talent at other positions and keeping 3 qb’s is inefficient.

And if Brady is out for 2-4 games this talent and the season might get derailed just because instead of keeping a backup you can trust to get you through that stretch of games the team tries to be greedy and keep another borderline player for the 7-10% of snaps he can give you ?

A backup QB you feel good about is the most important depth player you can have on your team. We have seen them working around losing HT, Gronk, Edelman.. so sacrificing that 53rd player for another QB will really not end up being particularly impactful while missing a dependable backup QB certainly is. The one time they had to work around not having Brady with a rookie QB things looked pretty dire except for a TNF where our defense and ST prevented the Texans almost from even touching the 50 yard line.

And while I get that you are hedging your own statement by saying "if he shows anything" I would say it is incredibly unlikely that Stidham can be anywhere close to be ready to run a NFL offense after his first camp. The goal with Stidham is not to replace Hoyer 2019 but in 2020 when Hoyer's contract is over and any new one would most probably be in at least the 4.5-5.5m APY area.

 

[DarrylS]

As TC progresses Hoyer may be the odd man out, either that or Ettling or Stidham making a shadow roster to allow them develop, if they can be developed..

Early on read an article about how well Ettling is working hard and progressing, not sure if it was puff or real.

But we really do not know how much progress has been made and the feelings of the Coaching staff... sometime soon and probably now some sort of plans need to be made for replacing #12.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

As TC progresses Hoyer may be the odd man out, either that or Ettling or Stidham making a shadow roster to allow them develop, if they can be developed..

Early on read an article about how well Ettling is working hard and progressing, not sure if it was puff or real.

But we really do not know how much progress has been made and the feelings of the Coaching staff... sometime soon and probably now some sort of plans need to be made for replacing #12.

I'd feel much better about Brady Stidham and Etling on the 53.
Hoyer can continue to help the team as a coach.

 

[Brewskies]

I have a hang-up with Hoyer. I really can't explain it, I just don't like him as a backup QB and I can't justify why.

Strange

 

[ctpatsfan77]

What everyone in this thread seems to be ignoring is that cutting Hoyer puts nearly $2 million in dead money on the salary cap. I don't think the Patriots are going to be willing to do that in addition to relying on a rookie and a pseudorookie as backups.

That's a sunk cost (unless they trade him). And I think after last year, he's already earned it.

 

[Simpelton]

What does that make Brady, then?

An exception.

 

[patman52]

And if Brady is out for 2-4 games this talent and the season might get derailed just because instead of keeping a backup you can trust to get you through that stretch of games the team tries to be greedy and keep another borderline player for the 7-10% of snaps he can give you ?

A backup QB you feel good about is the most important depth player you can have on your team. We have seen them working around losing HT, Gronk, Edelman.. so sacrificing that 53rd player for another QB will really not end up being particularly impactful while missing a dependable backup QB certainly is. The one time they had to work around not having Brady with a rookie QB things looked pretty dire except for a TNF where our defense and ST prevented the Texans almost from even touching the 50 yard line.

And while I get that you are hedging your own statement by saying "if he shows anything" I would say it is incredibly unlikely that Stidham can be anywhere close to be ready to run a NFL offense after his first camp. The goal with Stidham is not to replace Hoyer 2019 but in 2020 when Hoyer's contract is over and any new one would most probably be in at least the 4.5-5.5m APY area.

I think Stidham can win 1/2 the games he starts and play better than Brissett played. We will see this summer, when I believe he will show why most prognosticators had him as a first rd talent.

And it is not just keeping that kid for 7-10% of snaps, it is keeping him for the next year. Say beck shows something, you have Watson and Jenkins on one year deals. Likewise with Berrios/Ryan Davis, or one of the young DBs with Chung and Devin (brother too) 32YO next year, or keeping another Olineman.

Plus Who is going to pick up Hoyer? McCarron and McNown are much more likely to be snatched up before Hoyer during the season, so that makes it very probable that he could even return. I don't see why you cut a promising guy, on the chance than Brady gets injured for 4 or less games during the season, and these games are not in the playoffs and if he is injured at any time the delta between Stidham and Hoyer is so great that you kiss off that kid and limit Stidham snaps as the BU qb developing.

 

[patman52]

What everyone in this thread seems to be ignoring is that cutting Hoyer puts nearly $2 million in dead money on the salary cap. I don't think the Patriots are going to be willing to do that in addition to relying on a rookie and a pseudorookie as backups.

The money has nothing to do with it, it is a sunk cost. Whether his is on the roster for 3mill or you save 1.3 mill by cutting him. Hell that 1.3 mill means you can give 3 practice squad players NFL min deals making it much less likely that they jump ship to join another team during the season.

While Stidham may lose you a game, he may win you one. Hoyer is just a weight.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think people are selling Danny Etling short he's not going to win any beauty contest like Brady or Jimmg G but he's got some tools to work with. I hope Etling knocks Hoyer off the Roster.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Brady could be out. Is it worth a roster spot because Hoyer instead of Stidham MIGHT win us an addition game? Stidham will have lots of work in camp and in the pre-season. We should all hope (and perhaps expect) that Stidham will show that Hoyer isn't worth the roster spot. If we are lucky, some team will pick him up.

 

[patman52]

Yes, Brady could be out. Is it worth a roster spot because Hoyer instead of Stidham MIGHT win us an addition game? Stidham will have lots of work in camp and in the pre-season. We should all hope (and perhaps expect) that Stidham will show that Hoyer isn't worth the roster spot. If we are lucky, some team will pick him up.

That would be best case!

 

[LJRomanoff]

Yes, Brady could be out. Is it worth a roster spot because Hoyer instead of Stidham MIGHT win us an addition game? Stidham will have lots of work in camp and in the pre-season. We should all hope (and perhaps expect) that Stidham will show that Hoyer isn't worth the roster spot. If we are lucky, some team will pick him up.

Hope maybe. I certainly don't expect it.

 

[luuked]

I don't see why you cut a promising guy, on the chance than Brady gets injured for 4 or less games during the season, and these games are not in the playoffs and if he is injured at any time the delta between Stidham and Hoyer is so great that you kiss off that kid and limit Stidham snaps as the BU qb developing.

Nobody is arguing to cut him but simply to carry 3 QBs. Which is the most likely outcome.

And while I appreciate your enthusiasm about Stidham and surely hope he can develop as quickly as you think, overall it is incredibly unlikely that a rookie QB can come into this organization/offense and catch up with someone who has had years of experience in it like Hoyer while also working on all others aspects of his fundamentals.

 

[luuked]

Yes, Brady could be out. Is it worth a roster spot because Hoyer instead of Stidham MIGHT win us an addition game?

Of course. It is absolutely worth it to have a quality backup. This is the most important depth on the entire roster.

Only the rarest WR5, S5 or CB6 will ever be worth close to the value that a dependable QB2 brings to the table. Again, you can scheme around almost all injuries on a NFL team (until they become too much) except for QB.