This is why you should appreciate Patricia and Belichick

[ctpatsfan77]

I'll take two LBs in the first 2 picks followed by a QB

Fair enough. I'm being a little less specific since I think it would help at DE, DT, OLB, or ILB.

 

[FCB02062]

The Pats defensive #s improved after game 4 because they played a bunch of teams w schitty offenses...half of those 12 games were against the AFC east...

 

[TBR]

They didn't exactly play a murderer's row of offenses/QBs from weeks 5-17. It was easy to believe in the defense throughout those weeks though. Obviously, I blame nobody for doing so, including myself. Although you can definitely look back and see the D's true colors flash at times. Last night, it was on full display for 4 quarters.

Also, your comments on the defense indicate the opposite of what you're trying to claim, in my opinion. I've mentioned this in 2 other posts, but when you have the greatest QB of all time:

a) affording to the luxury of saving $10M+ in cap space per year, not to mention several other offensive players taking major below market deals (Edelman, Amendola, Gronk*, Andrews)
and
b) Brady making weapons from other teams' castoffs & mid-late round draft picks, thus allowing for Bill to make defensive players a top priority in the top rounds of the draft. Not to mention Scar's ability to not need high draft picks along the OL.

---- Given those unprecedented luxuries, Belichick should be fielding a defense that plays no worse than mediocre at any given time. That's all you need with Brady, whose top WR or TE can be removed mid-game and he can still look like the most dominant, God-like athlete in any sport ever played. Instead, we witness an all time bad defense with some highly questionable coaching decisions & scheming to top it off.

*Gronk's contract was market value when he signed it, although there's no doubt it's currently a bargain

 

[VectorPrime]

If Bill figured that Rowe deserved to be the number 2 corner, fine. I can understand that. But to say Butler wasn’t good enough to be the 3rd corner or at the very least the 4th or 5th DB you are smoking crack.

 

[JayNM]

BB has more than enough credit to do whatever he wants.

But those moves will need some serious answers to Kraft (the only guy he has to talk to). They might really have costed us a SB.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I give bb a majority of the credit for the first 3 sbs, but brady has been carrying his ass since 2010 and its starting to show. Even in 2014 and 2016 when the team DID have championship caliber defense, brady still had to bail us out with 3 of the greatest postseason performances/comebacks in playoff history.

Bb is great, but when you have the GOAT qb taking up about half the cap space he actually is worth to your teams success, you’ve gotta get him better help. 41 points against with 2 weeks to prepare for nick foles , 8 out of 10 possessions led to points for Philadelphia, absolutely inexcusable and another epic performance by brady wasted. Lets not forget the same thing was happening against blake freaking bortles till they realized you have to stop being unnecessarily conservative and force the issue against a weak qb , or sorry I forgot, “brilliant “ adjustment by patricia and bb.

 

[Observer]

So many people are batsh1t crazy right now with anger and second guessing. The coaching staff was outcoached, yes. They also gave up 41 points to an Eagles team that just scored 38 on the Vikings, who were probably the best defense in the NFL.

But this is exactly why you should appreciate the Patriots coaching staff rather than point fingers. Simply put, this was a very subpar front 6/ front 7 that was nowhere near championship caliber. That they led the league in points allowed from Week 5 to Week 17 is absolutely remarkable. We hang our hats on guys like Deatrich Wise and Marquise Flowers, who may be slightly above average talent-wise. Malcolm Brown is notable because he is far and away the best run-stuffer and nose tackle/DT on the defensive line, but he is far from an elite NFL player. Trey Flowers is a very good pass rusher, but he isn't sniffing all-pro honors. 39-year old James Harrison wasn't a luxury pickup; he was a necessity. On the linebacking unit, Kyle Van Noy is a solid player but certainly not spectacular, while guys like Elandon Roberts are basically JAG players who are inconsistent because that's what JAG players are.

Name one player outside of the secondary who can really influence the game on a consistent basis.

Did I mention that from Week 5 to Week 17, this was the best PPG in the entire league? Have you seen the talent on some of these other top-5 scoring defenses?

Blame the personnel decisions (Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Jabal Sheard, draft busts); blame injuries (Dont'a Hightower, Derek Rivers) or retirement (Rob Ninkovich), but it's crazy to blame the coaches at this point. They shouldn't have even been in this game with the overall talent in that defensive unit.

I appreciate the season but I don’t appreciate the Super Bowl. The personnel decisions, including Butler, are on B.B. too, so he doesn’t get a pass on that.

 

[Observer]

Your damn right F' him! They come up with fraud excuses why a player doesn't play.
End of the day, you want to get back at Malcolm Butler, use him, win and then send him packing. Instead BB is the one who got used and he did it to himself.

If I was Belichick the GM I would probably bench Belichick the coach.

 

[TB_Helmet]

I give bb a majority of the credit for the first 3 sbs, but brady has been carrying his ass since 2010 and its starting to show. Even in 2014 and 2016 when the team DID have championship caliber defense, brady still had to bail us out with 3 of the greatest postseason performances/comebacks in playoff history.

I started to think the same thing last night. Maybe even since 2007. Someone made the point that the Pats work on the game plan all week for these playoff games (which is where BB supposedly excels) and then go down big early, probably due to the game plan. Then we make all these 'adjustments', but really maybe the adjustment is that Brady starts airing it out and brings us back. That's what all these comebacks are.

Don't get me wrong, I still take BB over any coach in the league, but the credit for this most recent run goes way more to Brady than Belichick. Even recent playoff losses (2015 to the Broncos) Brady still played out of his mind despite getting crushed every other play.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I started to think the same thing last night. Maybe even since 2007. Someone made the point that the Pats work on the game plan all week for these playoff games (which is where BB supposedly excels) and then go down big early, probably due to the game plan. Then we make all these 'adjustments', but really maybe the adjustment is that Brady starts airing it out and brings us back. That's what all these comebacks are.

Don't get me wrong, I still take BB over any coach in the league, but the credit for this most recent run goes way more to Brady than Belichick. Even recent playoff losses (2015 to the Broncos) Brady still played out of his mind despite getting crushed every other play.

I agree, and I also still think bb is the best in the nfl right now, but in terms of legacy brady has been our absolute strength for some time. As i said, i give bb a majority of the credit for the first 3, but brady more than held up his end during those years. Not so sure if bb is keeping up during this portion... as great as he is.

I understand slip ups happen and some of the defensive breakdowns are forgiveable, they will happen, but i have a very hard time with last night. During this run, brady has had one truly bad playoff performance- 09 against the ravens. And honestly that game/season was a lost cause especially when welker went out. He has had sone iffy outings but he has NEVER never been a no show in a marquis game.

 

[Jangles]

Yes

Let’s appreciate the guys that built a barely serviceable defensive unit with a bunch of scrubs

All hail their excellence

 

[maineman209]

Truth is without Brady we don't make the playoffs. Without Brady's MVP season we might not win 5 games. We should appreciate Brady for taking an offense that lost it
s best WR in JE11, an o-line that took half the season to gel, an offense that saw it's top 3 targets get injured at key times in Gronk (Jags game, suspension), Cooks (SB) and Hogan (out for a stretch late in the season) and carried them to the SB. Combine that with a def that was 3rd worst in yards allowed, that is why you appreciate Brady

Brady and McD. And Fears. And Scarnecchia. And O'Shea.

 

[JPsPats]

Bill hasn't drafted an impact player on defence in a while. Brown is so mediocre its not even funny. He got rag dolled. Hightower and Jones were both home run picks but our Bill is so cheap he didn't pay Chandler. Imagine that as brady, taking a $10 million discount and this coach cant even build a defence with that money.

 

[sieglo]

I've been a Belichick apologist for damned near forever. But he owes us an explanation. He's accountable.

 

[Run DMC]

I give bb a majority of the credit for the first 3 sbs, but brady has been carrying his ass since 2010 and its starting to show. Even in 2014 and 2016 when the team DID have championship caliber defense, brady still had to bail us out with 3 of the greatest postseason performances/comebacks in playoff history.

Bb is great, but when you have the GOAT qb taking up about half the cap space he actually is worth to your teams success, you’ve gotta get him better help. 41 points against with 2 weeks to prepare for nick foles , 8 out of 10 possessions led to points for Philadelphia, absolutely inexcusable and another epic performance by brady wasted. Lets not forget the same thing was happening against blake freaking bortles till they realized you have to stop being unnecessarily conservative and force the issue against a weak qb , or sorry I forgot, “brilliant “ adjustment by patricia and bb.

and let us not forgot, that superstar defense of the 1st dynasty was created by Parcells! No wonder Parcells doesn't worship his protege like so many others. Brady has been carrying BB after that D faded away.BB is overrated and petty to the point of blowing it for this team last night.

 

[archstanton543]

I've been a Belichick apologist for damned near forever. But he owes us an explanation. He's accountable.

He did. Butler wasn't part of the scheme he was running last night. It really might just be as simple as that. Unless we hear otherwise from Butler when he leaves that's the only thing we have to go on.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bill hasn't drafted an impact player on defence in a while. Brown is so mediocre its not even funny. He got rag dolled. Hightower and Jones were both home run picks but our Bill is so cheap he didn't pay Chandler. Imagine that as brady, taking a $10 million discount and this coach cant even build a defence with that money.

I wholeheartedly agree with this and made a thread about it earlier this year.

The actual talent on defense is very deficient, and most of that is due to a lack of hits in the draft. Now, I'm not saying the system is broken since they typically have low draft position and we robbed of picks, in addition to it being somewhat of crap shoot, but that doesn't change the fact that they absolutely lack young, cheap talent on the defensive side of the ball. Guys like Dominique Easley, Cyrus Jones, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom, and Derek Rivers (though he was injured) are what's really taking a toll on this team.

From 2010-2014, they drafted Devin McCourty, Dont'a Hightower, Jamie Collins, Chandler Jones, Logan Ryan, and Duron Harmon (and Malcolm Butler as a UDFA). That's a lot of great players in between some misses. From 2014-2016, they only decent players they've drafted are Malcolm Brown, Deatrich Wise (possibly), and Trey Flowers. Considering all the walking papers they've handed out, their draft picks have not panned out well over the past three seasons.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I started to think the same thing last night. Maybe even since 2007. Someone made the point that the Pats work on the game plan all week for these playoff games (which is where BB supposedly excels) and then go down big early, probably due to the game plan. Then we make all these 'adjustments', but really maybe the adjustment is that Brady starts airing it out and brings us back. That's what all these comebacks are.

Don't get me wrong, I still take BB over any coach in the league, but the credit for this most recent run goes way more to Brady than Belichick. Even recent playoff losses (2015 to the Broncos) Brady still played out of his mind despite getting crushed every other play.

Even during the first Super Bowls the defense gave up in the 4th quarters:

14- 2001
19- 2003
7- 2004
14- 2007

They had good stats on the year but not in big games.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

So many people are batsh1t crazy right now with anger and second guessing. The coaching staff was outcoached, yes. They also gave up 41 points to an Eagles team that just scored 38 on the Vikings, who were probably the best defense in the NFL.

But this is exactly why you should appreciate the Patriots coaching staff rather than point fingers. Simply put, this was a very subpar front 6/ front 7 that was nowhere near championship caliber. That they led the league in points allowed from Week 5 to Week 17 is absolutely remarkable. We hang our hats on guys like Deatrich Wise and Marquise Flowers, who may be slightly above average talent-wise. Malcolm Brown is notable because he is far and away the best run-stuffer and nose tackle/DT on the defensive line, but he is far from an elite NFL player. Trey Flowers is a very good pass rusher, but he isn't sniffing all-pro honors. 39-year old James Harrison wasn't a luxury pickup; he was a necessity. On the linebacking unit, Kyle Van Noy is a solid player but certainly not spectacular, while guys like Elandon Roberts are basically JAG players who are inconsistent because that's what JAG players are.

Name one player outside of the secondary who can really influence the game on a consistent basis.

Did I mention that from Week 5 to Week 17, this was the best PPG in the entire league? Have you seen the talent on some of these other top-5 scoring defenses?

Blame the personnel decisions (Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Jabal Sheard, draft busts); blame injuries (Dont'a Hightower, Derek Rivers) or retirement (Rob Ninkovich), but it's crazy to blame the coaches at this point. They shouldn't have even been in this game with the overall talent in that defensive unit.

The huge flaw in your post is Malcolm Butler was an integral part of that defense from week 5 to week 17. On the other hand this defense was still awesome when Gilmore was out hurt and Butler was the #1 corner. This was a former pro bowl corner, 2 time champion in Malcolm Butler. The team has NEVER done well with a huge roster change, they always sucked the game after Milloy, Collins, you name it player was moved or benched. They had Butler in pre-game warmups then completely ruined the defense right before kick-off, moving 3 teammates out of their comfort zones and strengths.

 

[chumpchange]

Truth is without Brady we don't make the playoffs. Without Brady's MVP season we might not win 5 games. We should appreciate Brady for taking an offense that lost it
s best WR in JE11, an o-line that took half the season to gel, an offense that saw it's top 3 targets get injured at key times in Gronk (Jags game, suspension), Cooks (SB) and Hogan (out for a stretch late in the season) and carried them to the SB. Combine that with a def that was 3rd worst in yards allowed, that is why you appreciate Brady

Couldn't agree more. Remind us again how these all-time genius coaches fair when Brady's not the one throwing ball for them (Josh's abysmal time in Denver; Bill's genius being not even enough to get to the playoffs and AFC East title in 2008).