The Jets suck (merged)

[jczxohn1]

Bump--gotta get that magic # of 500 in.

Jets--best team on paper.

 

[Sciz]

Bump--gotta get that magic # of 500 in.

Jets--best team on paper.

(When you look at just the starters)

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

What a great thread!! I am serious.

Too_Funny is running your mouth about a team who's last hardware was produced by a guy (Joe Namath) who looks like my Grandfather....and I am 30 dude.

 

[Kontradiction]

We did establish that Butler is more physical but more of a ballhawk? Absolutely not. Based on what? The same amount of picks, 2 less deflections, and is more dangerous with the ball in his hands even though Cromartie has multiple TDs in his career along with the tying the record for longest TD in NFL history on a return(109 yards). Cromartie plays the ball like a WR and has as good hands as any CB in the NFL. When Butler has 10 picks in a season and can pick off Peyton Manning more then 3 times in his career let alone a single half, then we can bring up Butler and his ballhawk skills.

These things all occurred in 2007. The problem with this line of thought is that it is not 2007 anymore. Cromartie has hardly been the player you described in 2008 and 2009.

The physical part I completely understand. The ballhawk and more dangerous with the ball makes zero sense. Along with the non coverage stats you brought up covering WRs is a CB jobs #1 priority. Last year Cromartie in a "off year", he played 895 snaps and gave up 45 completions on 79 attempts for a 57% comp%. He also gave up 2 TDs and 545 yards for a 12.1 avg per catch. His 70.9 QB rating against was the 28th lowest in the NFL. Butler on 497 snaps gave up 36 completions on 64 attempts for a 56.3% comp %. He gave up 2 TDs and 497 yards on a 11.9 avg per catch. His 67.6 QB rating against was 20th in the NFL.

Where did you get these statistics from? I ask because I'm not finding anything nearly as detailed on Google.

 

[averywhitehall]

(When you look at just the starters)

Depth is a problem for the Jets...But I believe the scheme can overcome that. Like when Jenkins went down last season.

 

[Kontradiction]

Just proves how viable the Jets are as a threat to the Patriots.

Well I think it's both. If this were the Bills fans the Pats fans wouldn't even respond in kind they way they are now.

Can't deny the 800 lb elephant in the room: The Jets are a threat.

I don't see any "the Bills suck" threads. Because that would be akin to beating a starving man with a turkey leg. Just too brutal for words. Plus the thread wouldn't go for this long.

Yes, Jets fans should quiver like Patriots fans...

50 page threads exist on every Jets message board with abject thoughts on how successful an aging team was LAST decade.

It's cool to hate a team. It's completely laughable to do so when you fear they may have finally caught up.

2009 Jets playoff record. 2-1 (2 wins on the road)

2009 Patriots playoff record. 0-1 (Blown out at home and booed by their own fans in the 3rd quarter)

Hilarity ensues.

And yet there aren't nearly the amount of Pats fans on JetsInsider or GangGreen coming to the Pats' honor everytime something bad is said about them. If you guys thought your team was truly that superior and that you indeed had the division won already (like the media is making it out), you wouldn't be here right now, would you?

Every year Jets fans come around and tell us how this is their year. In 2007, Mangini the student was ready to overtake Belichick the teacher. That didn't turn out so well. In 2008, Jets fans were back here spouting off about how Favre was there and the Jets finally had a quarterback and were going to kick the Pats' asses and take the division. The year ends, Favre "retires" and Mangini is fired. In 2009, Rex Ryan and Mark Sanchez were on board. The Jets finally had the best defense in the league and a quarterback of the future and it was Super Bowl time for them in 2009. When the team should have gone 7-9, it lucks out by having two division winners roll over for them, then has the luck of facing the same division winner that just about crapped out at the end of the year and the same San Diego team that has a tendency to choke in the playoffs. In 2010, you guys are once again back talking about how old we are (nevermind the amount of young guns we have on the defensive side of the ball) and how Sanchez is suddenly ready to stop competing with Jamarcus Russell to see who takes the sh!ttiest QB in the league award and bring a Super Bowl back to New Jersey for the first time since Led Zepplin dropped their first album and the lunar landing. It's the same song and dance every year.

The only problem is that your big mouth coach and your New York media have taken the targets firmly off of our backs and placed them on your's. Check out the Dolphins boards as well. It's really no different than over here. And you don't think opposing teams are looking at this team that got lucky in the playoffs last year and is now mouthing off to all of their opponents as if they might as well just mail it in now like, "who the hell is this team to be talking? What the hell have they won?". Enjoy being the hunted, Jets fans. Maybe teams will take the foot off your team's throat after the 1-4 start. But, with how much talking that bunch overly entitled bunch of gasbags have done, I wouldn't count on it.

EDIT: As I complete this post, there are four Jets fans in the thread compared to three Pats fans. But we're the ones worrying about the mighty Jets. Go figure.

 

[Joker]

Depth is a problem for the Jets...But I believe the scheme can overcome that. Like when Jenkins went down last season.

Really???? OK...let's LOOK ..actually take a documented, archived look at the Jets/Pats game of 11/22/09...the last time these two teams played...(a 31-14 Patriots win FWIW)

Tom Brady completed 28 of 41 passes for 310 yards, his fifth straight game with more than 300. Wes Welker set career highs with 15 receptions and 192 yards. And Laurence Maroney ran for two touchdowns, his fifth consecutive game with at least one.

Uh huh...great "overcoming!!!!!!"...were YOU overcome by kitchen oven gas when you were a kid...or was it paint chips?

 

[Deus Irae]

Just proves how viable the Jets are as a threat to the Patriots.

Dude, this thread would have pretty much died a long time ago, but the Jets fans can't handle the fact that it's here.

Oh, yeah....

 

[Kontradiction]

Dude, this thread would have pretty much died a long time ago, but the Jets fans can't handle the fact that it's here.

Oh, yeah....

We should actually thank the Jets fans for showing up here. Pats fans are no longer going after one another and are now going after Jets fans and vice versa. It actually feels like order has been restored.

 

[Coach42]

Personally I couldn't be more excited that this Jets actually has expectations. There is nothing more satisfying than crushing the hopes of Jets fans. This season is going to be awesome.

 

[efin98]

Depth is a problem for the Jets...But I believe the scheme can overcome that. Like when Jenkins went down last season.

Bull crap. If any team knows about the problems a team WILL have with depth it is the Patriots.

If your starter goes down and you don't have a viable backup to replace him, guess what- your scheme won't matter because the defense will have a hole in it that they have to overcompensate for. That beloved scheme? It has to change. It can't sustain that hole no matter how good the talent is claimed to be.

Depth is a huge problem.

 

[efin98]

I get it...

So I can be logistically sound as long as I conform to online rumors and message board humor.

Boy, the internet sure makes me feel smarter!

No, you can be logically sound if you are actually backed up by facts and not speculation. His argument was logically sound and based in reality and backed up by facts.

DI is one of the most logical posters here...it pains me to praise him but he is the one person in this thread you do not want to get into a battle of wits and facts with.

 

[Shaun John 9294]

KontradictioN just made you kontradict yourself. Cromartie earns the "better cover corner" since Butler would've given up more yards and TDs, but Cromartie keeps the "better ballhawk" label since he had lots of picks way back when?

How did I contradict myself by stating if they played similar snaps and Butler, who started for only 5 games, would of given up more yards/TDs? He played against starting WRs or slot WRs for a majority of the season? Obviously #3 WRs since he wasn't a starter through out the season while the WRs Cromartie went against are tougher competition. Do you honestly think Butler would of picked off 7+ passes if he played 400 more snaps? lol

Based on his 3 picks in nearly 500 snaps, he's projected to get 1-2 more picks. Not even close to 10. When he shows the ability to be that caliber of a ballhawk, then you can say hes at least as good a ballhawk. In his rookie year he hasn't and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think you guys expected him to pick off 10+ passes his rookie year correct? He has plenty of time to prove it but so far he hasn't.

 

[Shaun John 9294]

And yet there aren't nearly the amount of Pats fans on JetsInsider or GangGreen coming to the Pats' honor everytime something bad is said about them. If you guys thought your team was truly that superior and that you indeed had the division won already (like the media is making it out), you wouldn't be here right now, would you?

I'm just here to talk football, whether it be about the Jets, Pats or whoever. I like to talk to rival fans and learn more about their teams and vice versa if interested. Example was the Tom Brady harping on leadership article. After talking to Andy, I have a better understanding of what Brady meant because I got information from a different point of view. I don't think theres anything wrong with other fans coming to other boards as long as it isn't for the purpose of trolling.

These things all occurred in 2007. The problem with this line of thought is that it is not 2007 anymore. Cromartie has hardly been the player you described in 2008 and 2009.

Agreed but at the same time hes going to be in a very similar situation to 2007 so I think it is relevant. Playing in a defense that puts tons of pressure on the QB in a press man to man scheme is the same as his defense in 2007 only this Jets D is better and he will be playing #2s opposite Revis instead of #1s. He's only 25 years old its not like he has declined physically where he cannot duplicate his past success. The change in scheme from man to man to zone and Merriman falling off contributed in a big way to his off years.

Butler is going into his 2nd year versus Cromartie being a former all pro. Based on the statistics I provided, they produced similar coverage numbers. The difference is Cromartie was facing starters for a majority of the season and Butler facing #3 WRs. So the edge goes to Cromartie without even factoring in his amazing athleticism and size. Hes much bigger, faster, quicker and more agile then Butler. It is what it is. Maybe Butler is a ballhawk right now or may be developing into one, but Cromartie has displayed eye popping plays and put up some big numbers whereas Butlers numbers don't exactly set the world on fire. I don't think its crazy to go with someone more proven then a player who is going into his 2nd year. At least you can say Cromartie has done it before while Butler never has. However you did build my interest in him. I will definitely watch out for him when a Patriots game is on.

Where did you get these statistics from? I ask because I'm not finding anything nearly as detailed on Google.

Profootballfocus.com....I definitely recommend it. Overall the site is pretty accurate about most things and very detailed. They do some things differently, example they do not count INTs as pass deflections like the NFL so some numbers may be slightly different. One of the biggest things I appreciate from the site is its analysis on offensive linemen, since we have no way of really judging them other then watching them play. Check it out.

 

[Tunescribe]

Personally I couldn't be more excited that this Jets actually has expectations. There is nothing more satisfying than crushing the hopes of Jets fans. This season is going to be awesome.

It's hard to believe their games sell out. Other than the fact that NFL football is available to people in that region of greater New York/New Jersey, why would anyone seriously WANT to be a Green Beans fan? I can't imagine enduring the torture and futility year after year after year. Hiring a carnival barker like Jabba Wrecks, the egomaniacal LaClassian, plus subhumans like Cromartie and Holmes shows how utterly desperate that franchise is to become "relevant." Paying extortionist PSL fees to be in the physical presence of this nonsense is insanity defined.

 

[Sivy]

Well I think it's both. If this were the Bills fans the Pats fans wouldn't even respond in kind they way they are now.

Can't deny the 800 lb elephant in the room: The Jets are a threat.

I don't see any "the Bills suck" threads. Because that would be akin to beating a starving man with a turkey leg. Just too brutal for words. Plus the thread wouldn't go for this long.

I hate the bills, but only because when i went to college in Buffalo I heard peopel talking about how glad they were that brady got hurt..but other than that, they are no where near as douchey as the jets and their fans.

 

[Sivy]

We should actually thank the Jets fans for showing up here. Pats fans are no longer going after one another and are now going after Jets fans and vice versa. It actually feels like order has been restored.

Thats why I started this thread..to re-united Pats fans for the common good.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm just here to talk football, whether it be about the Jets, Pats or whoever. I like to talk to rival fans and learn more about their teams and vice versa if interested. Example was the Tom Brady harping on leadership article. After talking to Andy, I have a better understanding of what Brady meant because I got information from a different point of view. I don't think theres anything wrong with other fans coming to other boards as long as it isn't for the purpose of trolling.




Agreed but at the same time hes going to be in a very similar situation to 2007 so I think it is relevant. Playing in a defense that puts tons of pressure on the QB in a press man to man scheme is the same as his defense in 2007 only this Jets D is better and he will be playing #2s opposite Revis instead of #1s. He's only 25 years old its not like he has declined physically where he cannot duplicate his past success. The change in scheme from man to man to zone and Merriman falling off contributed in a big way to his off years.

Butler is going into his 2nd year versus Cromartie being a former all pro. Based on the statistics I provided, they produced similar coverage numbers. The difference is Cromartie was facing starters for a majority of the season and Butler facing #3 WRs. So the edge goes to Cromartie without even factoring in his amazing athleticism and size. Hes much bigger, faster, quicker and more agile then Butler. It is what it is. Maybe Butler is a ballhawk right now or may be developing into one, but Cromartie has displayed eye popping plays and put up some big numbers whereas Butlers numbers don't exactly set the world on fire. I don't think its crazy to go with someone more proven then a player who is going into his 2nd year. At least you can say Cromartie has done it before while Butler never has. However you did build my interest in him. I will definitely watch out for him when a Patriots game is on.



Profootballfocus.com....I definitely recommend it. Overall the site is pretty accurate about most things and very detailed. They do some things differently, example they do not count INTs as pass deflections like the NFL so some numbers may be slightly different. One of the biggest things I appreciate from the site is its analysis on offensive linemen, since we have no way of really judging them other then watching them play. Check it out.

Your analysis of Cromartie is just flat out wrong.
First you are saying how great his ball skills are based on what happened 3 years ago and ignoring that he has a TOTAL of 5 ints in the last 2 years.
You said last year was an off year, but by the stats you chose it was his best:
2009 48/84/590/2/3/72.0
2008 67/102/869/4/2/97.2
2007 23/41/270/1/9/44.8 but that rating is cut in half by ints
and in 2007 he only played in 8 reg season games and 400 snaps, (92 vs Indy) a lot as a NICKEL in zone not a man to man corner covering the #1.
You keep saying he had 10 Ints? Your source shows 7 reg season and 2 postseason.
The real fact is everything you can say about the guy is basically he picked off Manning 3 times in a game 3 years ago. Go get Ty Law too then.
I dont know where you are getting your info on Cromartie but its all backward. Including the laughable idea that he will be better in a risky man scheme when he is averse to contact and has never show man coverage skills.

BTW, be careful with Profootballfocus, there is no proof of the validity of their stats, and the conclusions they offer are weak.

Oh and by the way, proffotballfocus grades Cromartie at 56th among all corners, that is among the worst 9 starters, and he ranked 113 in 2008.

 

[Deus Irae]

Mark Sanchez, reflecting on his recent trip to the White House:

"I knew we were scoping out this territory and we're coming back in February," Sanchez said. "That's in the back of your head. Now, Brick [D'Brickashaw Ferguson] and I will know where to go, so we'll just lead guys around and throw in a tour."

Your Jets boast of the day, courtesy of Mark Sanchez | ProFootballTalk.com

 

[Ring 6]

Your Jets boast of the day, courtesy of Mark Sanchez | ProFootballTalk.com

Compare this to Brady, he of 3 rings, talking only about how his team, which won the division the Jets finished 2nd in, needs to work hard to get better.