The Drake Maye Discussion Thread

[n1997y]

Drake Maye - who folks understandably are rooting hard for - is not looking great (albeit in his rookie season, very early in TC)

That’s a pretty significant “albeit” don’t you think? Could have stopped right there and saved yourself from tying this nonsense:

Yes, but despite that big albeit and him not looking great there are still plenty of folks on here anointing him QB1 already…

 

[TheRainMaker]

lol. That is all

He really needs to shed the #10 as it gives Mac Jones vibes. He was known as being raw coming out, so it shouldn't be surprising he's struggled in his first few days at camp. The silver lining is Josh Allen looked pretty bad for a few years and was regarded as a bust until the Tom left the Pats. Bills would be a borderline playoff team if they had to face Tom's Pats twice a year. Bill are the most overrated team in the NFL.

 

[Ring 6]

I get all the reasons his footwork isnt the greatest, im even fine with it due to all the other things he brings, the arm, the athleticism, the aggression and desire to push the ball down the field. I agree its going to be a point of focus and expect some big improvement but when does he get the TLC to be an all pro if he is under live fire expected to be competitive? Those conditions have a tendency to bring out muscle memory bad habits which doesnt take into account he needs to be faster at everything, processing, making reads, IDing protections. Its ALOT. I mean i know he has been doing it for years, football is football, but the NFL is a whole nother level.

The way i relate is i was always really really good at math in HS, have almost a calculator in my head and do mental math in seconds. I got to college and the first couple semesters were more of the same A's and B's without even trying. Then i got to a semester with Calculus on the docket. Holy F#$% that hurt my brain, for the first time i had to study and deep dive into concepts. I failed the first time i took it and barely squeeked out a c- the 2nd time.

I'm looking at a 21 year old kid who everything has been easy for because he is just so damn athletic with a cannon arm. He is going to be in for that same rude awakening i got from calculus when everyone is damn good. Lot of super talented atletes and the difference between a JAG and an All Pro is how much you want it, how hard you study, and do you have the mental fortitude to bring your A game week in and week out.

Im not arguing that Maye isnt already probably a better QB then Brisket and the offense would be more explosive with higher stats almost across the board. That doesnt sound crazy to me at all, im saying for the long term health of the franchise and for Maye to meet his full potential a year where he isnt graded, isnt expected to give weekly press conferences, and has a tutor showing him how its done in the NFL would be huge and is worth "sucking" for a year. Plus think of having 4-5 momths of chemistry with his WRs before the bullets start flying for real.

Also i dont think they are going to complete suck this year, i think people forget how many injuries they had last year and how bad the QB situation was. Even with Brisket last year they win the Indy and Giants games. Take away the mind numbingly stupid interceptions and just that alone accounts for 2-4 more wins.

The goal at the qb position should be what makes Maye best, the soonest.
I would take 1-16 and Maye learning in the job and developing over 6-11 with him stagnating on the bench. He will be the qb in 2025 and we aren’t winning in 2024, so getting him ready for next year is job 1.

Also brissett wont have the benefit of a defense that holds teams to 10 points so just not being Mac will get a w

 

[mikey m]

Maye obviously has a ton on his plate that he’s trying to learn and process. Also, have there been any reports about AVP tweaking his mechanics? I’m sure it’s happening and that only amplifies how much he has on his mind each time he drops back to pass. No one should be having concerns that some tough practices the last few days are at all indicative of his long term potential. It may indicate that he will have more struggles this year than some anticipated if/when he gets into games. By next year we’ll start to see a different story.

 

[Grogan14]

No surprises with Maye yet. We knew they were drafting him on future potential not on NFL readiness. He is only 21. He is not as NFL ready as Jaylen Daniels, Caleb Williams or perhaps even Penix. But he has a high ceiling if he can be coached up and given time to develop. Throwing him out to the wolves too early could break his confidence. Good model is Love in GB...they developed him teh right way.


He is physically gifted with a strong arm but so many holes in his game that need to be fixed over time
1. poor footwork
2. questionable decision making
3. inaccuracy for easy throws
4. Does not read defenses well, pre snap or post snap- This is the most important one in the NFL and will take time

We 100% knew he was not going to be lights out in training camp. It will be a slow process with him and I think letting him sit and watch for year one will put him in best position to realize his potential....but that may not be until year 3.

Looking at him in TC with a magnifying glass at this early stage will be frustrating.

 

[Pape]

Maye didn't have a great team around him at UNC unlike Jones at Bama. I don't think a struggling OL at the NFL level will be that new of an experience to him.

yes it will. it will get him killed. Just ask David Carr.

In college a players native athleticism can help them make plays because the level of competition is lower than it is in the NFL.

In the NFL, those seconds to act become tenths of a second.

 

[KCSVEN]

yes it will. it will get him killed. Just ask David Carr.

In college a players native athleticism can help them make plays because the level of competition is lower than it is in the NFL.

In the NFL, those seconds to act become tenths of a second.

Except David Carr was a crap QB in college and in the pros.
In addition, since Patriots settled the last few days on a #1 line, they appear to be pretty solid group, so far. Not so much #2 group Maye has been with.
As Manning stated many times, his first-year playing was instrumental to his development, the game doesn't slow down by sitting and practicing, you need game reps, the more the better.

 

[PatsFan2]

I am really going to put a lot of stock in a two days padded practices: with a little over a Month left.

 

[Pape]

Except David Carr was a crap QB in college and in the pros.
In addition, since Patriots settled the last few days on a #1 line, they appear to be pretty solid group, so far. Not so much #2 group Maye has been with.
As Manning stated many times, his first-year playing was instrumental to his development, the game doesn't slow down by sitting and practicing, you need game reps, the more the better.

David Carr was the consensus number 1 pick in 2002. Had passing stats that are comparable to Drake Maye in the nfl developmental league college ... 20 years earlier. 2001 WAC vs 2023 ACC? one significantly harder than the other? No, not really, if you are being honest. And he was a crap QB in the pros because why? Because he had a generationally awful offensive line. He was sacked 76 times in his rookie year. Two out of the top three Single Season Sacked leaders in NFL history? David Carr.

So lets dive right in shall we, because as you said - We are settling on a #1 line formation - big effing deal - That does not mean its any good relative to NFL competition. I might share your confidence in the line if Dante was here. But he's not.

There is nothing wrong with letting Brisket start the season while we work thru the first year issues of this rebuild. He can still get valuable game time and experience later on in the year when things have shaken out. and if he sits for a year, so what? Manning played year one. Brady didn't.

There is a reason why we brought Jacoby Brissette back. Let him take the lumps instead of Maye...

 

[sb1]

yes it will. it will get him killed. Just ask David Carr.

In college a players native athleticism can help them make plays because the level of competition is lower than it is in the NFL.

In the NFL, those seconds to act become tenths of a second.

That is true. Compared to someone like Mac Jones who had a great OL in front of him in Bama at least it shouldn't be a shock if his OL isn't up to par.

I think camp so far isn't saying much about Maye himself that we didn't already know but it is saying a lot about our paper thin depth on the OL. A guy listed as a 3rd string guard (Mafi) is the center in front of Maye for these reps. Ideally that would not be the case against any real opponent.

 

[sb1]

Yes, but despite that big albeit and him not looking great there are still plenty of folks on here anointing him QB1 already…

Right. He's a raw prospect with a very high ceiling who needs a lot of development to get to that ceiling. Some guys drafted with that label like Josh Allen become great. Others like Trey Lance don't. Raw prospects are not a sure thing.

But it's dumb to say he sucks or is a bust when it's not even his first padded full week in his first camp in the NFL.

 

[KCSVEN]

David Carr was the consensus number 1 pick in 2002. Had passing stats that are comparable to Drake Maye in the nfl developmental league college ... 20 years earlier. 2001 WAC vs 2023 ACC? one significantly harder than the other? No, not really, if you are being honest. And he was a crap QB in the pros because why? Because he had a generationally awful offensive line. He was sacked 76 times in his rookie year. Two out of the top three Single Season Sacked leaders in NFL history? David Carr.

Bryce Young, Mitch Trubisky, David Carr, who cares if they were consensus #1? We already know NFL consensus scouting on college QB's stinks. If you go thru the things that relate to success/failure for a QB David Carr was not a good prospect. He proved it out by being a bad pro. Can't really argue those things.
Also playing in a better conference is not a positive for QB prospects. Not a negative. But it is a positive to dominate with a weak team. Thus, the team and competition for Maye vs Carr is a huge check in the Maye box.
Carr had the kiss of death with the impossible to fix bad upper body mechanics a la Justin Fields. He sucked and had to be a major outlier to ever be a good pro, using him to compare to Maye is not a comparable prospect AT ALL.

 

[Zuma]

I still agree Maye should sit most of the season. Most of us expected that.

 

[Pape]

Bryce Young, Mitch Trubisky, David Carr, who cares if they were consensus #1? We already know NFL consensus scouting on college QB's stinks. If you go thru the things that relate to success/failure for a QB David Carr was not a good prospect. He proved it out by being a bad pro. Can't really argue those things.
Also playing in a better conference is not a positive for QB prospects. Not a negative. But it is a positive to dominate with a weak team. Thus, the team and competition for Maye vs Carr is a huge check in the Maye box.
Carr had the kiss of death with the impossible to fix bad upper body mechanics a la Justin Fields. He sucked and had to be a major outlier to ever be a good pro, using him to compare to Maye is not a comparable prospect AT ALL.

David Carr was the only legit option for the Texans. Drake Maye was the only legit option for the Patriots. Carr had upper body mechanics that needed fixing? I will take your word on it. Drake Maye has lower body mechanics that need fixing. I'm sure you know this already, and if you don't you should.

Playing in a better conference is "not a positive" for QB prospects? Good grief. Did you actually say that? dude, come on...

David Carr's success or failure in the NFL not withstanding, any chance he had for success was negated by line play that was god awful. Like it or not the Offensive Line in New England is a huge question mark.

David Andrews and Michael Onwenu are the only known factors on the line. They are good players. They are not great players. The rest of the guys are rookies and journeyman jags. Caeden Wallace penciled in as the LT... has never played left tackle... If he can make the transition to LT, fantastic... If not, then where are we? the starting LG may not / will probably not play at all this year... and the right tackle is Okorafor, who is the walking definition of mediocre, a guy who got replaced by a rookie last year because he was racking up penalties... the only reason his penalty stats look halfway decent is because 5 out of the 8 called (in 7 games) were declined/offset...

Until you know better - keep his ass on the bench. We want Maye to be a success. A long term success. There is absolutely zero benefit in getting the guy sack happy in the first quarter of his rookie season when he gets to go against guys like Trey Hendrickson, Quinnen Williams, Jermaine Johnson, Bryce Huff, Fred Warner and Nick Bosa...

 

[lancerman]

I still agree Maye should sit most of the season. Most of us expected that.

I don't even get why this is debate. Everyone knows the Pats aren't in Super Bowl contention this year and everyone outside of the extremely delusional, you know who I am referencing, realize that this offense isn't all that great and conducive to developing a young QB and they would benefit from sitting more than getting killed behind this offensive line while receivers struggled to get open.

If they wanted to start Maye from day 1, they wouldn't have brought in Brissett. They could have just kept Zappe or Hoyer as back up and rolled with Maye. Brissett is here to take the hits and keep things as steady as possible while Maye is developed.

 

[KCSVEN]

David Carr was the only legit option for the Texans. Drake Maye was the only legit option for the Patriots. Carr had upper body mechanics that needed fixing? I will take your word on it. Drake Maye has lower body mechanics that need fixing. I'm sure you know this already, and if you don't you should.

Playing in a better conference is "not a positive" for QB prospects? Good grief. Did you actually say that? dude, come on...

Lower body mechanics are fixable, upper body are generally not.

Texas Tech, Wyoming, Mississippi state, Eastern Illinois. Successful QB's
Yet we have failure after failure from Alabama, Ohio State has more failures than not.

I have not done the entire list, but I researched it quite a bit but maybe you have a more extensive detailed list than I did and will gladly look at it and see if my sample I did was too small, and the data changed with more QB's looked at.

Statistically, playing in a bigger conference does not equate to a higher % of success when comparing top QB prospects. It just doesn't.
Of course, more top prospect come from large conferences, but that's not the question, once they are a top prospect it does not matter where they played, at least that's what history has shown analytically.
However, If you can be Josh Allen, Mahomes, Maye and play well with a weak team, you historically have better odds of success.
Who you play with is just as, if not more important than who you played against.

 

[Pape]

Lower body mechanics are fixable, upper body are generally not.

Texas Tech, Wyoming, Mississippi state, Eastern Illinois. Successful QB's
Yet we have failure after failure from Alabama, Ohio State has more failures than not.

I have not done the entire list, but I researched it quite a bit but maybe you have a more extensive detailed list than I did and will gladly look at it and see if my sample I did was too small, and the data changed with more QB's looked at.

Statistically, playing in a bigger conference does not equate to a higher % of success when comparing top QB prospects. It just doesn't.
Of course, more top prospect come from large conferences, but that's not the question, once they are a top prospect it does not matter where they played, at least that's what history has shown analytically.
However, If you can be Josh Allen, Mahomes, Maye and play well with a weak team, you historically have better odds of success.

Dealing with issues that relate to mechanics - upper or lower - its best to sort that out prior to putting the player in a position where they are likely to fall back on their natural inclinations, which would be reinforcing those bad habits.

you want to parse statistics on the 2001 WAC vs the 2023 ACC, have at it.

The difference between Alabama and OSU has always been the ability to draw high level talent across the board to the programs. That's not a "problem" enjoyed by the WAC or the ACC. because all that talent is at Michigan, Alabama, OSU.

Mahomes sat.
Allen played poorly. Wasn't until he got DIggs in Buffalo was he able to succeed.

Maye? well, there is a reason we signed Brisket.

 

[lancerman]

Not sure why we have to speak in absolutes without seeing them play. Whoever plays better in camp should start in week 1. Choosing to sit him no matter what is just as idiotic as choosing to start him no matter what.

I'll say this again, Maye if he is ever going to be a franchise starter probably already is better than Jacoby Brissett. Every single first round drafted QB would have serious problems if they weren't. Being better than him as a starting QB is not a high bar to reach at all. Brissett is probably the worst or close to the worst starting QB in the league and there are backups better than him currently (see Flacco last year).

The metric shouldn't be "whoever is better should start". The metric should be "what is better for the development of Drake Maye so he can succeed on the team". We drafted him for a 15ish year investment hoping he becomes a franchise starter to elite QB who can give us a window for championships once he is fully developed. We didn't draft him so 2024 can be a slightly funner season for fans than last year.

 

[Kdo5]

I’m not freaking out about Maye. The only disappointment, which a lot of people warned about, is that he is clearly not ready at all. It seems that this should serve as a complete red shirt season for him.

Barring injuries I don’t expect to see him in any near future outside of the preseason.

 

[Love The Drake]

I’m not freaking out about Maye. The only disappointment, which a lot of people warned about, is that he is clearly not ready at all. It seems that this should serve as a complete red shirt season for him.

Barring injuries I don’t expect to see him in any near future outside of the preseason.

I guess the bullets come faster in the NFL than NC.
He just has to get the game speed down, once he does that he can be the best QB in this class. But I think Mccarhy, Nix, Daniel’s are more pro ready.
We will see one of them look good in some way and people will say we made the wrong pick. But if Maye is Herbert or Josh Allen by year 4 it’s totally worth the wait.
In AVP we trust.