The Drake Maye Discussion Thread

[sb1]

I guess the bullets come faster in the NFL than NC.
He just has to get the game speed down, once he does that he can be the best QB in this class. But I think Mccarhy, Nix, Daniel’s are more pro ready.
We will see one of them look good in some way and people will say we made the wrong pick. But if Maye is Herbert or Josh Allen by year 4 it’s totally worth the wait.
In AVP we trust.

Yup. This is life in the NFL having a raw QB that needs development.

 

[Fuzz]

I'll say this again, Maye if he is ever going to be a franchise starter probably already is better than Jacoby Brissett. Every single first round drafted QB would have serious problems if they weren't. Being better than him as a starting QB is not a high bar to reach at all. Brissett is probably the worst or close to the worst starting QB in the league and there are backups better than him currently (see Flacco last year).

The metric shouldn't be "whoever is better should start". The metric should be "what is better for the development of Drake Maye so he can succeed on the team". We drafted him for a 15ish year investment hoping he becomes a franchise starter to elite QB who can give us a window for championships once he is fully developed. We didn't draft him so 2024 can be a slightly funner season for fans than last year.

"You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it."

Whoever gives them the best chance to win this year should get the spot. I know where you're coming from regarding a long-term plan, but they can't go into the season assuming it's a lost year before games are even played. They owe it to the fans in the seats to give them the best product they can muster up this year, and they owe it to the players who are expected to bust their butts trying to compete.

If they intentionally sacrifice a year to set them up for the future, they are essentially tanking an entire season. Apart from undermining the competitive integrity of the sport, they would be disrespecting the fans who would be investing time, money and emotional energy on this team. Tanking has also never been proven to work. A team that accepts losing, even momentarily, will find it hard to reestablish a winning culture.

This is a moot point right now because Brissett is winning the QB competition, but if Maye turns it around and ends up outperforming him, they would lose the respect of players and many fans (like myself) if they kept him on the bench.

 

[jdlboot14]

Most sensible football fans agreed that Maye wouldn't start, at least until the latter 1/2 or 1/3 of the season.
So, when we see what that looks like in his first pro practices, some people think Maye sucks already.
The reason most pundits said he wouldn't, or shouldn't, start this year, is because this is what he'd start like...
He's a bit raw, very young, not much pro-style experience. So, that's why Brissett was always going to start this year.
It's fine, let him learn and be allowed to make mistakes in training camp.

 

[lancerman]

"You play to win the game. You don't play it to just play it."

Whoever gives them the best chance to win this year should get the spot. I know where you're coming from regarding a long-term plan, but they can't go into the season assuming it's a lost year before games are even played. They owe it to the fans in the seats to give them the best product they can muster up this year, and they owe it to the players who are expected to bust their butts trying to compete.

If they intentionally sacrifice a year to set them up for the future, they are essentially tanking an entire season. Apart from undermining the competitive integrity of the sport, they would be disrespecting the fans who would be investing time, money and emotional energy on this team. Tanking has also never been proven to work. A team that accepts losing, even momentarily, will find it hard to reestablish a winning culture.

This is a moot point right now because Brissett is winning the QB competition, but if Maye turns it around and ends up outperforming him, they would lose the respect of players and many fans (like myself) if they kept him on the bench.

Yeah the guy who you quoted never won ****.

This isn't Pop Warner. Most teams are building and aren't under delusions that they all have a Super Bowl chance. Maye is not worth sacraficing this year just to get some short term fan buzz when the goal is to make him a longterm solution for years to come. The team isn't going into this year with some fantasy delusions because it feels good. These are adult professionals running a billion dollar operation

Teams like the Browns are famous for doing what you are suggesting. They make a longterm plan and then things get rough, they start to panic and rush someone out before they are ready to please the "fans in the seats". That person struggles because they weren't developed right and after 2 years they go the way of Mac Jones.

I also keep seeing Patriots fans give platitudes about how hard it is to establish a winning culture. Yet every dynasty including the Patriots usually is a losing squad that gets a few of the right pieces to click, gets over the hump and then they get addicted to winning. The Patriots were a losing franchise then within two years Bill established a winning culture. Then 20 years of a winning culture died and went the way of the dodo once the final key piece left. Teams change based off the right players taking off. Not some mythical culture establishing

Also every single Patriots fan would trade this year if it meant it gave Maye a better chance of developing and anybody who thinks otherwise is on crack.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Not sure why we have to speak in absolutes without seeing them play. Whoever plays better in camp should start in week 1. Choosing to sit him no matter what is just as idiotic as choosing to start him no matter what.

Choosing to have him start when he hasn’t learned the offense fully is a bad idea, period. Even Brady didn’t have the offense down completely when he started at the beginning of his second season. I’m not saying he has to have it mastered before he starts, but he should have a full grasp of it. Beyond that starting a rookie behind this OL is a bad idea, and Mayo seems to agree with this.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Choosing to have him start when he hasn’t learned the offense fully is a bad idea, period. Even Brady didn’t have the offense down completely when he started at the beginning of his second season. I’m not saying he has to have it mastered before he starts, but he should have a full grasp of it. Beyond that starting a rookie behind this OL is a bad idea, and Mayo seems to agree with this.

By bringing in Brisset, the team is clearly in agreement about not rushing the rookie. No QB can be successful if they cannot play freely because they are focused on figuring out the play on the fly. To say it another way, Maye needs to be at the point where he can concentrate on executing the play without worrying about what he is supposed to do to execute the trade. Ideally the OL will be stabilized by the time he is ready to give it a go in a live game.

 

[Fuzz]

Yeah the guy who you quoted never won ****.

This isn't Pop Warner. Most teams are building and aren't under delusions that they all have a Super Bowl chance. Maye is not worth sacraficing this year just to get some short term fan buzz when the goal is to make him a longterm solution for years to come. The team isn't going into this year with some fantasy delusions because it feels good. These are adult professionals running a billion dollar operation

...

I know. Thats what makes it a good quote. He said it in response to a reporter asking whether players might quit trying after his team started 2-5. His point is that you have to keep trying no matter how bleak things might look.

Look, I'm not saying that you start him no matter what just because it will create some buzz. In fact, thats the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying that you play the players who give you the best chance to win this season. If he beats out Brissett (which is a big IF at this point), he's ready enough to start in this league. Time should not dictate when he's ready, his play in practice should.

 

[Fuzz]

Choosing to have him start when he hasn’t learned the offense fully is a bad idea, period. Even Brady didn’t have the offense down completely when he started at the beginning of his second season. I’m not saying he has to have it mastered before he starts, but he should have a full grasp of it. Beyond that starting a rookie behind this OL is a bad idea, and Mayo seems to agree with this.

Fair enough. I agree that he should only play if he has demonstrated that he has a full grasp of the playbook and can effectively run the offense.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I know. Thats what makes it a good quote. He said it in response to a reporter asking whether players might quit trying after his team startetd 2-5. His point is that you have to keep trying no matter how bleak things might look.

Players won't quit if there is a sense that progress is being made, they will checkout if they think it is hopeless or management doesn't care. Maye is not the only young player that the team is trying to develop this year. A steady, NFL veteran starting is a much better situation for a young OL and WR corp trying to figure things out than an inconsistent rookie who doesn't have command of the offense.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't even get why this is debate. Everyone knows the Pats aren't in Super Bowl contention this year and everyone outside of the extremely delusional, you know who I am referencing, realize that this offense isn't all that great and conducive to developing a young QB and they would benefit from sitting more than getting killed behind this offensive line while receivers struggled to get open.

If they wanted to start Maye from day 1, they wouldn't have brought in Brissett. They could have just kept Zappe or Hoyer as back up and rolled with Maye. Brissett is here to take the hits and keep things as steady as possible while Maye is developed.

How does he benefit from sitting? He needs to be on the field developing. This year is already hopeless next year probably is too. Let’s get 34 games of nfl football under his belt so he is as good as he can be by 2026. Every game he sits on the bench just pushes back his development.

 

[n1997y]

How does he benefit from sitting? He needs to be on the field developing. This year is already hopeless next year probably is too. Let’s get 34 games of nfl football under his belt so he is as good as he can be by 2026. Every game he sits on the bench just pushes back his development.

He benefits from sitting if he’s going to revert to poor footwork and bad mechanics in game play. He needs to be doing the fundamentals right in order to benefit from development on the field. Practicing bad habits won’t make him better.

Right now he isn’t getting those right in practice. He won’t do better just because it’s a game instead of practice. He needs to stay on the sidelines until he is consistently correct in practice, not occasionally but routinely perfect. Then and only then will he benefit from playing in NFL games.

Don’t rush him.

 

[Ring 6]

He benefits from sitting if he’s going to revert to poor footwork and bad mechanics in game play. He needs to be doing the fundamentals right in order to benefit from development on the field. Practicing bad habits won’t make him better.

Right now he isn’t getting those right in practice. He won’t do better just because it’s a game instead of practice. He needs to stay on the sidelines until he is consistently correct in practice, not occasionally but routinely perfect. Then and only then will he benefit from playing in NFL games.

Don’t rush him.

Why? If he is prone to “reverting to bad footwork” then it’s going to happen until he fixes it on the field. Nothing changes when you don’t play, it doesn’t just go away.
Live games are far different than practice. Again if you look ahead to a year from now he is better if he plays every game snap plus practice than if he just practices and sits in his butt when it’s real. The goal is what he becomes in a year or 2 not what how he looks now. Anything that needs to be learned us learned many times faster when the bullets are flying.

 

[n1997y]

Why? If he is prone to “reverting to bad footwork” then it’s going to happen until he fixes it on the field. Nothing changes when you don’t play, it doesn’t just go away.
Live games are far different than practice. Again if you look ahead to a year from now he is better if he plays every game snap plus practice than if he just practices and sits in his butt when it’s real. The goal is what he becomes in a year or 2 not what how he looks now. Anything that needs to be learned us learned many times faster when the bullets are flying.

You’re usually smarter than this.

If he’s messing up his mechanics he’s not going to “fix it on the field”.

Unless that field is the practice field, where he can have a coach in his ear about it immediately.

If it’s on the field during a game he’s just going to go from bad to worse.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I get all the reasons his footwork isnt the greatest, im even fine with it due to all the other things he brings, the arm, the athleticism, the aggression and desire to push the ball down the field. I agree its going to be a point of focus and expect some big improvement but when does he get the TLC to be an all pro if he is under live fire expected to be competitive? Those conditions have a tendency to bring out muscle memory bad habits which doesnt take into account he needs to be faster at everything, processing, making reads, IDing protections. Its ALOT. I mean i know he has been doing it for years, football is football, but the NFL is a whole nother level.

The way i relate is i was always really really good at math in HS, have almost a calculator in my head and do mental math in seconds. I got to college and the first couple semesters were more of the same A's and B's without even trying. Then i got to a semester with Calculus on the docket. Holy F#$% that hurt my brain, for the first time i had to study and deep dive into concepts. I failed the first time i took it and barely squeeked out a c- the 2nd time.

I'm looking at a 21 year old kid who everything has been easy for because he is just so damn athletic with a cannon arm. He is going to be in for that same rude awakening i got from calculus when everyone is damn good. Lot of super talented atletes and the difference between a JAG and an All Pro is how much you want it, how hard you study, and do you have the mental fortitude to bring your A game week in and week out.

Im not arguing that Maye isnt already probably a better QB then Brisket and the offense would be more explosive with higher stats almost across the board. That doesnt sound crazy to me at all, im saying for the long term health of the franchise and for Maye to meet his full potential a year where he isnt graded, isnt expected to give weekly press conferences, and has a tutor showing him how its done in the NFL would be huge and is worth "sucking" for a year. Plus think of having 4-5 momths of chemistry with his WRs before the bullets start flying for real.

Also i dont think they are going to complete suck this year, i think people forget how many injuries they had last year and how bad the QB situation was. Even with Brisket last year they win the Indy and Giants games. Take away the mind numbingly stupid interceptions and just that alone accounts for 2-4 more wins.

At the end of all these conversations it's better for him eventually play this year, than not. That's what history tells us when you factor in JB and the type of QB he's been up until now. *If* we had a Rodgers, Favre in front of him. Thats different.

We absolutely want our #3 overall pick to beat out JB at some point. It's not a death nail if he doesn't. If he's clearly not ready and looks like he might really set him back. Sure, sit him. I'm not even advocating or pounding the table for or against. I'm simply saying every NEP fan should want to see him play early on.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

At the end of all these conversations it's better for him eventually play this year, than not. That's what history tells us when you factor in JB and the type of QB he's been up until now. *If* we had a Rodgers, Favre in front of him. Thats different.

We absolutely want our #3 overall pick to beat out JB at some point. It's not a death nail if he doesn't. If he's clearly not ready and looks like he might really set him back. Sure, sit him. I'm not even advocating or pounding the table for or against. I'm simply saying every NEP fan should want to see him play early on.

Even those that are advocating that he sit for a while would love to see him start earlier if he earns it in practice, or even the preseason. I am more concerned if he takes some time and he does not start at any point this season the backlash will make it difficult starting season two. When it comes to QBs drafting, developing and retaining is not straightforward.

 

[Ring 6]

You’re usually smarter than this.

If he’s messing up his mechanics he’s not going to “fix it on the field”.

Unless that field is the practice field, where he can have a coach in his ear about it immediately.

If it’s on the field during a game he’s just going to go from bad to worse.

It’s very simple. Whatever he need to work on gets better faster if he is playing football. Sitting on the bench doesn’t help you develop.

You don’t go without practice if you play.

 

[Huckleberry1]

By bringing in Brisset, the team is clearly in agreement about not rushing the rookie. No QB can be successful if they cannot play freely because they are focused on figuring out the play on the fly. To say it another way, Maye needs to be at the point where he can concentrate on executing the play without worrying about what he is supposed to do to execute the trade. Ideally the OL will be stabilized by the time he is ready to give it a go in a live game.

Agree with this completely. There is a ton of information for a young QB to digest, and expecting them to have it all down, and be ready to execute it properly in just a few months of practice is a recipe for trouble. As you said Brissett was brought in as a veteran to stabilize the position for a season, while whatever QB they drafted acclimated to the NFL properly. There is no All Pro QB to supplant, which is why Roger’s and Love sat for years, but Wolf is clearly leaning towards the Green Bay model, in allowing the young QB plenty of time to fix technical issues, and learn the offensive system, which is why Mayo feels comfortable enough to let fans know they will be waiting a while to see him in action. Maye was drafted to be their QB for the next decade +, not to be an immediate savior who miraculously turns them into a playoff team year one. I really like the way Wolf is managing this transition from Belichick, and I think it’s bringing stability to a franchise that had completely lost that. I think Wolf has made it clear to Mayo that he doesn’t have to worry about being judged on their wins/losses this season, and for now will be judged more on how he creates a new culture for the team. I think the expectations for both Mayo and Maye, in terms of a win/loss performance with start to be ratcheted up in the 2025 season and beyond, as will the expectations for Wolf and the front office in terms of rebuilding the talent base given to Mayo to succeed with.

 

[Huckleberry1]

At the end of all these conversations it's better for him eventually play this year, than not. That's what history tells us when you factor in JB and the type of QB he's been up until now. *If* we had a Rodgers, Favre in front of him. Thats different.

We absolutely want our #3 overall pick to beat out JB at some point. It's not a death nail if he doesn't. If he's clearly not ready and looks like he might really set him back. Sure, sit him. I'm not even advocating or pounding the table for or against. I'm simply saying every NEP fan should want to see him play early on.

This expectation would be far more reasonable if the questions at OL and the skill positions surrounding the QB had already been answered affirmatively, it’s not when the QB is surrounded by question marks. Sitting for a season didn’t do any harm to Brady or Mahomes, who turned into the GOAT, and a sure fire 1st ballot HOFer, and sitting for multiple seasons clearly didn’t harm Rodgers or Love. I get why everybody wants to see Maye sooner than later, we are tired of losing, but putting him out there behind an OL that has yet to show they can protect anyone makes no sense at all to me.

 

[1960Pats]

Some of you guys are in for a rude awakening if he's the starter. He has bounced around the NFL for a reason and has a worse record than Mac Jones. When the Pats fall behind....lol you guys are going be chanting Maye by week 3. Week 1 is going to be ugly.


Agree. I think Maye wins the job. I have feeling Brissett never sees the field and is an emergency backup ala Trent Dilfer to Alex Smith in 2005.

I don't know which Jones you thought I was talking about but it was Mac.

Reports so far are not very good concerning Maye. He still has a ways to go.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Players won't quit if there is a sense that progress is being made, they will checkout if they think it is hopeless or management doesn't care. Maye is not the only young player that the team is trying to develop this year. A steady, NFL veteran starting is a much better situation for a young OL and WR corp trying to figure things out than an inconsistent rookie who doesn't have command of the offense.

Players won’t quit if they are individually motivated, because every one of them gets paid based upon the tape they put out. If they are on a losing team, and stop trying to win and execute in their one/one battles and performance in the system, like executing properly, then they will have short lived careers . That’s why the concept of tanking is largely a myth, as no player is going to play like **** so the franchise can get better draft picks, especially when the pick could replace them. The only people who can even attempt to tank are the owner, and possibly the GM, if the owner backs detrimental decisions completely.